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Out of the Blue

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30. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 28, 2014, 04:09 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 16:34:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 15:02:
I saw something on /., I think it was yesterday, about people still kicking around the idea of space elevators. It sounds crazy, but who knows. The things we do today would literally seem impossible 100 years ago.

That would at least overcome the problem of getting out of Earth's gravity well, but of course we also have no material capable of sustaining said space elevator so that it doesn't buckle under its own weight, and no way of actually building it.

A more promising idea is to actually build a moonbase and to start assembling stuff there to take it further into the solar system, which I think is what we'll eventually wind up doing.

But the cost associated with creating and operating a permanent moonbase is truly ludicrous—we're talking trillions of dollars—so if/when this ever gets done, it'll need to be done by Earth as a whole, not by a single nation.

I love the idea of a space elevator, and material sciences has come a long way, but there are serious, serious hurdles to overcome to make it a reality. IO9 has a good article summing them up.
 
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 28, 2014, 04:07 jdreyer
 
Yosemite Sam wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 16:59:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:59:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:10:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!


Well, yeah. But with current rocket technology it's simply impossible, so until someone invents something new, it'll remain wishful thinking.

It's not impossible and is in fact already being done as the James Webb telescope is going to be put into what's called an L2 orbit which is 4X the distance to the Moon... oh and the James Webb telescope is way bigger then Hubble.

Hubble vs James Webb

Webb is bigger, but Hubble weighs more (11K kg vs 6K kg)
 
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 28, 2014, 03:26 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 13:19:
There should be Curiosity-style rovers on Titan, Europa, and Ceres. Jupiter and Saturn should be orbited by a Hubble sized telescopes. Cassini sized probes should be orbiting Neptune, Uranus, and Venus.

Until we develop either anti-gravity, or some kind of chemical reaction more volatile than hydrogen-oxygen, the tyranny of rocket science makes these things impossible.

In short: The mass is too large for us to be able to send up enough fuel to send these things:

A) into orbit
B) break earth gravity and get to destination
C) decelerate and attain stable orbit around another celestial body.

This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.

Creston,

Everything I mentioned is doable today. We don't need new tech, we just need funds. We need to put the money into building what we already know.

1. We've sent Curiosity to Mars. It's been done. Therefore, we can send Curiosity-style and sized rovers to and land them on any celestial body that's small enough (low enough gravity to prevent a crash) including Titan, Europa, & Ceres. Curiosity runs on decaying radio isotopes, so lack of solar power is not an issue.

2. Same for Cassini-style probes. We've already sent one to Saturn, so it's possible to send the same kind of powerful, long-term satellite to other planets as well. It's just a matter of money, thus in my fantasy I cut the military to achieve the funding I need for these projects.

3. The lunar command module and lander were 21,000 kg (Saturn V, baby!). Hubble is half that. Although something that large has not been sent to another planet, it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It just hasn't been tried yet. And Sam, the reason to send such a large lens out to Jupiter and Saturn isn't to look at the stars, but to have extremely detailed photos of the surfaces of all the celestial bodies in each of those systems.
 
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 18:06 Creston
 
Yosemite Sam wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 16:59:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:59:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:10:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!


Well, yeah. But with current rocket technology it's simply impossible, so until someone invents something new, it'll remain wishful thinking.

It's not impossible and is in fact already being done as the James Webb telescope is going to be put into what's called an L2 orbit which is 4X the distance to the Moon... oh and the James Webb telescope is way bigger then Hubble.

Hubble vs James Webb

I was talking about the original idea of having telescopes in orbit around other solar bodies.

As for whether it'd be useful or not to have a telescope further out, eh, I could see the use in it. Different angles, not having the Oort Cloud in the way of some stuff you're trying to look at, being closer to the Helioshock, etc. It'd be way too expensive (ignoring the impossible factor) for NASA (or NSA or China) to really attempt it, I would think.

Yosemite Sam wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 16:43:
but I think their main priority should be to find a better way into orbit... IMO a moon base at this point is, ahhh, pointless

Until that technology ever gets invented, the only way we're ever going to get big stuff out of earth orbit at a reasonable cost is by assembling it outside of the depth of Earth's gravity well. While theoretically we could do it at the ISS, the zero gravity element makes that extremely time consuming and fraught with the potential for mistakes in areas where you don't want mistakes to be made.

Building stuff on the moon, where there IS gravity, would alleviate many of those concerns, but on the flipside, it's just too costly. A moonbase would eat NASA's budget 25 times over.

 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 17:47 xXBatmanXx
 
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The GMG Team
 
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 16:59 Yosemite Sam
 
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:59:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:10:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!


Well, yeah. But with current rocket technology it's simply impossible, so until someone invents something new, it'll remain wishful thinking.

It's not impossible and is in fact already being done as the James Webb telescope is going to be put into what's called an L2 orbit which is 4X the distance to the Moon... oh and the James Webb telescope is way bigger then Hubble.

Hubble vs James Webb

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2014, 17:07.
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 16:43 Yosemite Sam
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 13:19:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 11:42:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 11:35:
Great article about potentially saving the Columbia. Very much worth a read.

Maybe it's because I'm getting older, but I swear, I think NASA are rockstars these days. They do all kinds of amazing shit, even with a strangled budget.


Yeah, I read that whole four page article last night. Awesome stuff. There were some great comments too, esp the ones from a guy that helped design the post-Columbia rescue plans.

NASA's still got some of the best engineers in the world. They also have a bit too much bureaucracy, but definitely hurt b/c of the budget cuts. If it were up to me, I'd take half the defense spending and give it to NASA. There should be Curiosity-style rovers on Titan, Europa, and Ceres. Jupiter and Saturn should be orbited by a Hubble sized telescopes. Cassini sized probes should be orbiting Neptune, Uranus, and Venus. There should be a permenant base on the moon already. And on and on.

There's no reason what so ever to have telescopes orbiting Jupiter and Saturn. There's the James Webb telescope which is an upgrade to Hubble and there's already an active ESA probe orbiting Venus. Plus there's also New Horizons next year and Juno in 2016 to look forward to. I do agree that money would be much better spent on NASA then the military, but I think their main priority should be to find a better way into orbit... IMO a moon base at this point is, ahhh, pointless
 
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 16:34 Creston
 
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 15:02:
I saw something on /., I think it was yesterday, about people still kicking around the idea of space elevators. It sounds crazy, but who knows. The things we do today would literally seem impossible 100 years ago.

That would at least overcome the problem of getting out of Earth's gravity well, but of course we also have no material capable of sustaining said space elevator so that it doesn't buckle under its own weight, and no way of actually building it.

A more promising idea is to actually build a moonbase and to start assembling stuff there to take it further into the solar system, which I think is what we'll eventually wind up doing.

But the cost associated with creating and operating a permanent moonbase is truly ludicrous—we're talking trillions of dollars—so if/when this ever gets done, it'll need to be done by Earth as a whole, not by a single nation.
 
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 16:31 Creston
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 15:35:
Looks like this one got missed....

Scania Truck Driving Simulator

Didn't even know this was in the works. Only 1 review for it so far and it's quite positive. I wonder if this is idicative of the upcoming 1.9 patch for ETS2. Media looks pretty sweet. I'll be grabbing this soon. Meantime Creston should take the plunge first and let us know.

I thought STS was the game they made before they did ETS2? So there's no real point in getting it, to be honest.
 
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 16:04 Quboid
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 15:35:
Looks like this one got missed....

Scania Truck Driving Simulator

Didn't even know this was in the works. Only 1 review for it so far and it's quite positive. I wonder if this is idicative of the upcoming 1.9 patch for ETS2. Media looks pretty sweet. I'll be grabbing this soon. Meantime Creston should take the plunge first and let us know.

That was released in 2012, a few months before ETS2 by the looks of it. It's new to Steam, are there any changes? (Edit: a new patch with a little bit of new content.)

I'd be tempted at 50% off or something like that (when I have a flipping Internet connection that isn't £10/GB ). I wonder who paid whom between SCS and Scania.

I know ETS2 1.9 will have new AI, which is much needed, new physics and some graphics upgrades but I don't know what else. To be honest, and this is definitely not a complaint, I'm not sure why they're bothering with a large patch for ETS2 at this point. Perhaps they want to beta test the new stuff for ATS.
 
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- Quboid
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 15:35 Cutter
 
Looks like this one got missed....

Scania Truck Driving Simulator

Didn't even know this was in the works. Only 1 review for it so far and it's quite positive. I wonder if this is idicative of the upcoming 1.9 patch for ETS2. Media looks pretty sweet. I'll be grabbing this soon. Meantime Creston should take the plunge first and let us know.
 
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 15:15 Cutter
 
Yay, Metro Last Light is on for $12 at the Humble Store today. Annnndddd sold!

Just started in on Shadowrun and Dragonfall and looking good so far!

And the new NASA is China.
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 15:02 nin
 
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:59:
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:10:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!


Well, yeah. But with current rocket technology it's simply impossible, so until someone invents something new, it'll remain wishful thinking.

I saw something on /., I think it was yesterday, about people still kicking around the idea of space elevators. It sounds crazy, but who knows. The things we do today would literally seem impossible 100 years ago.


 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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17. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 14:59 Creston
 
nin wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:10:
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!


Well, yeah. But with current rocket technology it's simply impossible, so until someone invents something new, it'll remain wishful thinking.
 
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 14:22 harlock
 
ldonyo wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 09:27:
I'm going to have to try Fallout with a 1 INT character after seeing that!

Arcanum does the same thing, btw
 
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 14:10 nin
 
Creston wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 14:09:
This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.


YET!

 
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 14:09 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 13:19:
There should be Curiosity-style rovers on Titan, Europa, and Ceres. Jupiter and Saturn should be orbited by a Hubble sized telescopes. Cassini sized probes should be orbiting Neptune, Uranus, and Venus.

Until we develop either anti-gravity, or some kind of chemical reaction more volatile than hydrogen-oxygen, the tyranny of rocket science makes these things impossible.

In short: The mass is too large for us to be able to send up enough fuel to send these things:

A) into orbit
B) break earth gravity and get to destination
C) decelerate and attain stable orbit around another celestial body.

This is pretty much the only reason why there aren't these kinds of things already. NASA would LOVE to have a Hubble-type telescope somewhere beyond Earth orbit, but it simply can't get the thing there.
 
Avatar 15604
 
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 13:57 jdreyer
 
Fallout With 1 Intelligence Is Incredible.

Heh, I have the original Fallout on my laptop, and just started a game. Maybe I'll have to restart with 1 Int.
 
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 13:56 jdreyer
 
Quboid wrote on Feb 27, 2014, 13:40:
NASA has the potential to be one of the most significant organisations in history - if they're not already - and should be considered a ridiculously good investment for the US government.

Maybe the people who would profit from off-planet mining should lobby the government like those who profit from killing brown people do. I predict that some day the richest person in the world solar system will make their fortune from off-planet mining.

Your comment makes me want to watch Outland again...
 
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 27, 2014, 13:40 Quboid
 
NASA has the potential to be one of the most significant organisations in history - if they're not already - and should be considered a ridiculously good investment for the US government.

Maybe the people who would profit from off-planet mining should lobby the government like those who profit from killing brown people do. I predict that some day the richest person in the world solar system will make their fortune from off-planet mining.
 
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- Quboid
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