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Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded

There's an interview with Tim Schafer on GamesIndustry International discussing how to stay afloat in "a pool of Internet Twitter hate," discussing the reaction to the announcement that Broken Age would be broken into two parts, as Tim describes the venom this generated from people outside their Kickstarter audience, as their communication with their backers eased the way for this news. He also confirms that the plan to fund the development of Act 2 through the sales of Act 1 has succeeded. "We've made enough that we can make the second half of the game for sure," Schafer said. "And we're not done making it to all the platforms because we haven't released it on iPad yet. I feel that's going to be a really interesting platform for adventure games. It's such a fun place to play point-and-click graphic adventures, and so many people have them. That's exciting to me."

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31. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 23, 2014, 02:32 Jerykk
 
And hitting timed keys when they appear on-screen is a skill, even if it's retarded gameplay on the absolute dumbest and lowest level. But rubbing items on everything (without a time-limit anywhere) isn't a skill and takes none (which is probably why it was designed that way, so that the dumbed down masses can play Broken Age and not get stuck).

I don't really see how mashing keys requires any more skill than combining and using random objects in an adventure game. The QTEs in The Walking Dead did not require precise timing or coordination. In terms of difficulty, they were exactly the same as the QTEs in The Wolf Among Us. So really, the only distinction between the two implementations is that one has an explicit fail state while the other does not. No, the actual gameplay of TWD and TWAU comes from the choices you make over the course of the game and how those choices affect the story. Making complex choices is a challenge in and of itself.

You're essentially saying that 99% of adventure games are not actually games because they don't have time limits while solving puzzles. Difficulty is relative. Just because you find something easy doesn't mean it isn't gameplay. There are most certainly people who thought the puzzles in Broken Age were difficult. I was not among them but I define "challenge" in an objective way. A challenge provides a goal and obstacles that must be overcome in order to achieve that goal. If a game offers such challenges, regardless of difficulty, then it qualifies as a game.
 
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30. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 23:51 eRe4s3r
 
Orogogus wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 12:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 10:56:
Jerykk wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 03:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 18:51:
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.

You don't need an explicit fail state to qualify as a game. If a game presents challenges to the player and completing those challenges is the only way to progress, that is gameplay. Broken Age has puzzles that must be completed in order to progress and therefore qualifies as a game.

The fact that there are some form of challenges in your way of progression does not make them gameplay. A book also has pages you have to flip over to continue.... that is a challenge for some people for sure, but it ain't gameplay. Getting up in the morning (or not) is a challenge state blocking progression......

While it's true that you have to complete said "challenges" you can not FAIL them if you are methodological.... ie, you rub everything on everything exactly once, and in case of apple quest, you'd have to back-track exactly once and NOT rub it on anything you rubbed it on before

And just to be clear, this has no bearing on anything other than semantics for me, but I consider Broken Age and certain other POC's (interactive) Visual Novels and not games. Specifically not in that category are text-adventures, many of which do have actual fail-states and quite many have thousands of them.

Walking Dead from Telltale is a game with actual gameplay.
Wolf Among us is a (interactive) visual novel.

I just think if you call everything a game then your are muddying the definition of what games and gameplay are supposed to be.

Loading and retrying is an action just like rubbing, and it's entirely arbitrary to say that since the game sends you to a death screen then it's something completely different from a game like Monkey Island that just says "Nah" before you can kill yourself. I don't see at all how "open w, push x, rub y on z" is even slightly different from "open w and die, reload, push x, rub y on z". It makes no sense at all. What does the death screen do to prevent you from methodologically trying everything?

Tower of Hanoi: Not a game
Tower of Hanoi that kills you after 30 moves: Game!

Also, I can't really think of a text adventure that's had "thousands" of fail states. Like, dozens would be an enormous number.

A fail state is fundamentally a progression block based on player skill. Tower of Hanoi requires a lot of skill and is clearly a game whether there is a time limit or not. I have no idea where you both got "death screen", did I say that? I said failing, failing is not death (unless that's what the game is about ,p). Failing is a situation where lack of your own skill means you can't progress. And that is what a fail-state is, and that is what a gameplay mechanic is defined by.

If you can solve a puzzle by randomly clicking on the screen is that to you, a skill based challenge? A gameplay mechanic? Gameplay? To me it isn't.

I don't say that this makes something like Broken Age or Wolves among us less fun. I am just saying they are not games with gameplay (mechanics) that require your own skill to pass.
 
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29. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 23:42 eRe4s3r
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 18:09:
While it's true that you have to complete said "challenges" you can not FAIL them if you are methodological.... ie, you rub everything on everything exactly once, and in case of apple quest, you'd have to back-track exactly once and NOT rub it on anything you rubbed it on before

So you're essentially saying that if you can use trial-and-error to overcome a challenge, it doesn't qualify as gameplay? How is that any different from fighting a boss and dying repeatedly, only to eventually defeat him after learning his attack patterns and weaknesses? It's still trial-and-error.

The focus on death as the defining feature of gameplay seems incredibly silly to me. Not all games need to revolve around combat or life-threatening situations. Your distinction between The Walking Dead and Wolf Among Us is particularly absurd, given that gameplay is almost exactly the same between them and the only difference is that you can die in TWD if you fail a QTE (which also happens to be one of the worst gameplay mechanics of modern times). And even if you do die, the game just reloads and has you try the QTE again, effectively removing any real penalty to death.

A fail-state isn't a death screen. It's a situation where you have to employ some kind of player skill to solve a challenge and failing to have that skill means reload/retry or most fundamentally a progression block. And hitting timed keys when they appear on-screen is a skill, even if it's retarded gameplay on the absolute dumbest and lowest level. But rubbing items on everything (without a time-limit anywhere) isn't a skill and takes none (which is probably why it was designed that way, so that the dumbed down masses can play Broken Age and not get stuck).

I agree with you that death does not have to be a defining element, that would be silly. But I have no idea why you inferred that from my post to begin with. I just want to be challenged while playing games. Broken Age provides no such thing. I suck majorly at hard POC's, I was stuck for weeks on the 2nd Simon the Sorcerer for example, mainly because you had to execute certain (very absurd!) actions in a timed scene but solving that puzzle was the most fun I ever had in a game up to then. That's not saying that it was a good POC, but it was a great game.

Broken Age does have great visuals, atmosphere and dialog, but it has absolutely 0 challenging gameplay. Maybe I am being very nitpicky, but it's just how I see it. I see games, much like TB, as a collection of mechanics surrounded by story and graphics. You can have the best story ever and the best graphics ever but that does make you a game. Games, are defined by gameplay elements that require skill.

And while you can argue whether QTE's require any skill, clearly they do require some. Especially if the timing is short and the keys randomized. Bad gameplay, but still gameplay, and clearly a challenge to the player that requires skill. And this is why I draw a line between these 2 tell-tale games. Progression in Walking Dead requires player skill. Progression in Wolves Among us does not.
 
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28. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 18:09 Jerykk
 
While it's true that you have to complete said "challenges" you can not FAIL them if you are methodological.... ie, you rub everything on everything exactly once, and in case of apple quest, you'd have to back-track exactly once and NOT rub it on anything you rubbed it on before

So you're essentially saying that if you can use trial-and-error to overcome a challenge, it doesn't qualify as gameplay? How is that any different from fighting a boss and dying repeatedly, only to eventually defeat him after learning his attack patterns and weaknesses? It's still trial-and-error.

The focus on death as the defining feature of gameplay seems incredibly silly to me. Not all games need to revolve around combat or life-threatening situations. Your distinction between The Walking Dead and Wolf Among Us is particularly absurd, given that gameplay is almost exactly the same between them and the only difference is that you can die in TWD if you fail a QTE (which also happens to be one of the worst gameplay mechanics of modern times). And even if you do die, the game just reloads and has you try the QTE again, effectively removing any real penalty to death.

This comment was edited on Feb 22, 2014, 22:44.
 
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27. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 16:49 Sepharo
 
Do not engage "* is not a game" trolls.  
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26. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 12:22 Orogogus
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 10:56:
Jerykk wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 03:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 18:51:
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.

You don't need an explicit fail state to qualify as a game. If a game presents challenges to the player and completing those challenges is the only way to progress, that is gameplay. Broken Age has puzzles that must be completed in order to progress and therefore qualifies as a game.

The fact that there are some form of challenges in your way of progression does not make them gameplay. A book also has pages you have to flip over to continue.... that is a challenge for some people for sure, but it ain't gameplay. Getting up in the morning (or not) is a challenge state blocking progression......

While it's true that you have to complete said "challenges" you can not FAIL them if you are methodological.... ie, you rub everything on everything exactly once, and in case of apple quest, you'd have to back-track exactly once and NOT rub it on anything you rubbed it on before

And just to be clear, this has no bearing on anything other than semantics for me, but I consider Broken Age and certain other POC's (interactive) Visual Novels and not games. Specifically not in that category are text-adventures, many of which do have actual fail-states and quite many have thousands of them.

Walking Dead from Telltale is a game with actual gameplay.
Wolf Among us is a (interactive) visual novel.

I just think if you call everything a game then your are muddying the definition of what games and gameplay are supposed to be.

Loading and retrying is an action just like rubbing, and it's entirely arbitrary to say that since the game sends you to a death screen then it's something completely different from a game like Monkey Island that just says "Nah" before you can kill yourself. I don't see at all how "open w, push x, rub y on z" is even slightly different from "open w and die, reload, push x, rub y on z". It makes no sense at all. What does the death screen do to prevent you from methodologically trying everything?

Tower of Hanoi: Not a game
Tower of Hanoi that kills you after 30 moves: Game!

Also, I can't really think of a text adventure that's had "thousands" of fail states. Like, dozens would be an enormous number.
 
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25. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 10:56 eRe4s3r
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 03:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 18:51:
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.

You don't need an explicit fail state to qualify as a game. If a game presents challenges to the player and completing those challenges is the only way to progress, that is gameplay. Broken Age has puzzles that must be completed in order to progress and therefore qualifies as a game.

The fact that there are some form of challenges in your way of progression does not make them gameplay. A book also has pages you have to flip over to continue.... that is a challenge for some people for sure, but it ain't gameplay. Getting up in the morning (or not) is a challenge state blocking progression......

While it's true that you have to complete said "challenges" you can not FAIL them if you are methodological.... ie, you rub everything on everything exactly once, and in case of apple quest, you'd have to back-track exactly once and NOT rub it on anything you rubbed it on before

And just to be clear, this has no bearing on anything other than semantics for me, but I consider Broken Age and certain other POC's (interactive) Visual Novels and not games. Specifically not in that category are text-adventures, many of which do have actual fail-states and quite many have thousands of them.

Walking Dead from Telltale is a game with actual gameplay.
Wolf Among us is a (interactive) visual novel.

I just think if you call everything a game then your are muddying the definition of what games and gameplay are supposed to be.
 
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24. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 05:17 Orogogus
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 22, 2014, 03:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 18:51:
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.

You don't need an explicit fail state to qualify as a game. If a game presents challenges to the player and completing those challenges is the only way to progress, that is gameplay. Broken Age has puzzles that must be completed in order to progress and therefore qualifies as a game.

Ya. Any criteria that says Grim Fandango is less of a game than King's Quest V is objectively wrong. I can prove it with graphs.
 
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23. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 04:06 Jerykk
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 13:29:
What's wrong with hating Twitter? People should hate it.

And if you want to talk about KS clusterfucks just look at Shadowrun Online. Not only over a year late already they haven't even got a working game yet. And they knowingly couldn't make the game for 500k and had to go out and secure private funding - which they did no disclose at the time - so that's wire fraud right there. Surprised no one has sic'd the feds on them yet.

Yeah, crowdfunding is over.

/glances at headline about Star Citizen reaching $39 million...

No, I'm pretty sure crowdfunding is still going strong. There will always be projects that fail to deliver. This is true of non-crowdfunded games as well. As always, potential backers need to use some discretion and common sense before throwing their money at a project. Do the devs have any verifiable experience in game development? Have they worked on any released games? How involved were they in the development of said games? Can they really make the game they're promising for the amount they're asking? If you can answer all these questions, you have enough information to make a good decision.
 
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22. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 22, 2014, 03:41 Jerykk
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 18:51:
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.

You don't need an explicit fail state to qualify as a game. If a game presents challenges to the player and completing those challenges is the only way to progress, that is gameplay. Broken Age has puzzles that must be completed in order to progress and therefore qualifies as a game.

Anyway, I'm hoping that the second act is longer and harder than the first one. The writing and atmosphere are great but the puzzles were way too easy in the first act.
 
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21. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 18:51 eRe4s3r
 
Can we stop calling Broken Age a game? Something without a fail state is not a game.....

By the way, the same way Wolf Among us is NOT a game, you can not fail (don't believe me? ignore all button inputs in all fight scenes...)

They are interactive stories, but not games.
 
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20. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 18:42 saluk
 
Pigeon wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 13:00:
Creston wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 12:51:
Cool news.

As for the internet hate, just ignore it. If your backers were fine with it, who the fuck cares about everyone else?

Really the only bad things I've heard about the game is it's length, and a few rumblings that the girl's section isn't as good. I'll have to check it out sometime. I did get a %25 off coupon for double-fine games, but I've got a back log to work through already so I may be better off waiting till its on sale.

There isn't really a consensus on either of these things. Some people like both stories equally, some prefer one, and some prefer the other. I think that's what you risk when you do a joint narrative like this where each story is so radically different in setup, style, etc.
 
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19. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 18:11 jdreyer
 
Siygess wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 17:04:
Cutter wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 13:29:
What's wrong with hating Twitter? People should hate it.

And if you want to talk about KS clusterfucks just look at Shadowrun Online. Not only over a year late already they haven't even got a working game yet. And they knowingly couldn't make the game for 500k and had to go out and secure private funding - which they did no disclose at the time - so that's wire fraud right there. Surprised no one has sic'd the feds on them yet.

Yeah, crowdfunding is over.

Urgh, don't remind me. Maybe there were some obvious signs that I missed during the KS itself but the alarm bells started to ring for me once they said about delaying so they wouldn't release alongside SR.. and then they had nothing to show for it. The funding basically paid for a few salaries, a new office and a years worth of rent so they could sit around and play Minecraft all day.

Then they brought out AERENA as a stop gap to use some of the code they had laying around and bring in some pizza money.. and I realised I had been here before. CME and Stargate Worlds / Stargate Resistance. Shiiiiiiiiit

I dunno, says they're going to have a playable version end of March. Given that they funded 1.5 years ago, and they're just getting something playable, that seems about right for a 2 year dev cycle.
 
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18. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 17:09 PsychoMoggieBagpuss
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 13:29:
What's wrong with hating Twitter? People should hate it.

And if you want to talk about KS clusterfucks just look at Shadowrun Online. Not only over a year late already they haven't even got a working game yet. And they knowingly couldn't make the game for 500k and had to go out and secure private funding - which they did no disclose at the time - so that's wire fraud right there. Surprised no one has sic'd the feds on them yet.

Yeah, crowdfunding is over.

I missed that one. I backed Shadowrun Returns and am very happy with what I got out of it. The campaign was good, the upcoming berlin expansion looks great and because they released the level editor with the game, theres a shitload of user generated content out there and more coming (check out shadowrun infinity, a massive project where they are putting all the pen and paper scenarios into the game).
Also backed Broken Age and again, very happy with what I've seen so far. There is little negativity on the actual backer forums about the split because they were discussing it with us months in advance.
Theres going to be some shite out there on kickstarter, it's the nature of the business, just back that which you have a genuine interest in seeing produced and has an actual business plan, not just some concept graphics.
My profile is https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1242058835 - only the wildman thing and police quest for me has been a failure, but they didn't fund so I wasn't out of pocket.
Ogre by SJ games was worth it. Only managed to play a few times with friends but goddamn, this is what a boardgame should be.
Waiting on Torment, Wasteland 2, Mobius, Carmageddon, Project Eternity, Godus, Broken Sword, Elite, Mandate and Shroud of the Avatar (what can I say, ultima 7 pt1/pt2 was probably my favourite game ever, well, a tie between that and wing commander 1/2. Origin, they created worlds, now the name means a shitty download agent from EA ).
I'm also a fair bit into RSI's one, I was pretty much "Chris Roberts, just take my fucking money". If I look at total spend on there it is a bit worrying, but then I remember that the majority of it is from people who I purchased stuff for (LTI!) who then re-imbursed me via paypal (hi anyone from Futilez ).
While I'm waiting for these to come out though I'll just stick to playing Crusader Kings 2 and Anno 2070 (I really want a new game/expansion in the series, think there are some regulars here who would agree with that statement ).
I'm very dubious on any MMO that tries to raise something via KS. It's a saturated market and the startup costs are huge, it's just not suited for crowdfunding.

This comment was edited on Feb 21, 2014, 17:24.
 
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17. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 17:04 Siygess
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 13:29:
What's wrong with hating Twitter? People should hate it.

And if you want to talk about KS clusterfucks just look at Shadowrun Online. Not only over a year late already they haven't even got a working game yet. And they knowingly couldn't make the game for 500k and had to go out and secure private funding - which they did no disclose at the time - so that's wire fraud right there. Surprised no one has sic'd the feds on them yet.

Yeah, crowdfunding is over.

Urgh, don't remind me. Maybe there were some obvious signs that I missed during the KS itself but the alarm bells started to ring for me once they said about delaying so they wouldn't release alongside SR.. and then they had nothing to show for it. The funding basically paid for a few salaries, a new office and a years worth of rent so they could sit around and play Minecraft all day.

Then they brought out AERENA as a stop gap to use some of the code they had laying around and bring in some pizza money.. and I realised I had been here before. CME and Stargate Worlds / Stargate Resistance. Shiiiiiiiiit

 
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16. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 16:31 Kosumo
 
Well .... thats a reasonable come back Tumbler. 6.5/10

Don't worry though, I'll regroup and come back stronger with my negitivity/trolling in another Star Citizen thread.

I masturbate must bait better, gonna go practice!
 
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15. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 16:11 Tumbler
 
Kosumo wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 14:32:
How does this new ship feel to control compaired to the other ships? Whats that? No one has driven/flown any ships yet? Well, how could I tell what one is right for me? I know, I'll test drive it in my head ----> OH MAN, THIS SHIP FUCKEN ROCKS! Me buying 3 of them!

Shit, crowdfunding is looking super healthy with that going on.

They showed the new ship, the Javelin. It's a destroyer and it's beautiful. You can't buy it, but they still crossed the 39 million mark! And I'm sure people are dreaming of flying it and if they offered it for sale they'd definitely sell 3 of them...if not hundreds more.

I don't want to spend that kind of money but judging by the prices people have already payed on the Idris (corvette) and a limited Scythe fighter there are lots of people who want to spend the money.

It all seems like a perfect fit for me. I get a bigger better game and other people get to own massive warships that I can have fun trying to blow up.
 
99gamers.com-Game trading site, PC digital trading!
Kickstarter "Game Developer"!
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14. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 15:25 wtf_man
 
Creston wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 12:51:
Cool news.

As for the internet hate, just ignore it. If your backers were fine with it, who the fuck cares about everyone else?

It wasn't fine with me.
I still think he squandered the cash for what was released, and scope creep got way out of control. The man can't budget for shit.

Oh Well.

I'll get to playing it when I'm done with my backlog from the last Black Friday sales.

/shrug
 
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13. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 15:13 Beelzebud
 
I'm glad they'll be able to fund it. I don't think this is quite the game for me, but a lot of people seem to like it, so that is great.

For me my eye is on Spacebase DF-9. A few more features and I'm buying it.
 
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12. Re: Schafer Confirms Broken Age Act 2 Funded Feb 21, 2014, 14:57 Julio
 
I'm not convinced Tim can budget the money for part 2 well yet. Will there be an Act 1.5 released if they run out of cash again?  
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