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Morning Metaverse

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32. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 21, 2014, 15:28 Agent.X7
 
Pumas wrote on Feb 21, 2014, 00:07:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 20, 2014, 19:14:
I think there are still a couple of holdouts from the EU in what is generally considered Europe, but yeah, pretty much. Most people don't say Europe and think that Russia is grouped right in there.

You are well beyond missing the point. I was simply trying to explain to InBlack that running fiber in Croatia is a less daunting task than running it in the US because our country is nearly as big as a continent. I figured someone in Croatia would have a decent grasp of that scale.

Ah, the last argument of the mentally defeated. "The thing I was saying wasn't! You're missing the point!"
 
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31. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 21, 2014, 00:07 Pumas
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 20, 2014, 19:14:
I think there are still a couple of holdouts from the EU in what is generally considered Europe, but yeah, pretty much. Most people don't say Europe and think that Russia is grouped right in there.

You are well beyond missing the point. I was simply trying to explain to InBlack that running fiber in Croatia is a less daunting task than running it in the US because our country is nearly as big as a continent. I figured someone in Croatia would have a decent grasp of that scale.
 
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30. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 20, 2014, 19:14 Agent.X7
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 19:24:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:45:
Pumas wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:18:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 16:46:
Uh, our country is bigger than all of Europe. By quite a bit. And that's not even including Alaska and Hawaii.

USA - 3,794,101 sq mi

Europe - 3,930,000 sq mi

I looked it up before posting

Right, but you are comparing the CONTINENT of Europe with the COUNTRY of the USA. Now subtract Russia, who is not part of Europe as a collection of countries, but rather a transcontinental country.

I mean, otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. Sure, the European CONTINENT is bigger than our country, but the North American CONTINENT is bigger than European CONTINENT by quite a bit as well.

Yup.
EU Size: 1,691,658 sq mi
Because I assume you meant the EU. That's what most people mean when they say "Europe," I think.

I think there are still a couple of holdouts from the EU in what is generally considered Europe, but yeah, pretty much. Most people don't say Europe and think that Russia is grouped right in there.
 
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29. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 20, 2014, 15:55 Verno
 
Julio wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:39:
So when do content providers on the internet charge Verizon for access instead? Band together, and refuse all Verizon traffic until they pay up. This could go both ways...

Haha well played. Sadly the last mile is king.
 
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28. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 21:03 Axis
 
Whenever there's something a mass majority don't like, something else entrepreneurial comes along that can make them happy - UNLESS the gov't controls it all, then you are all fucked and can't do shit about it.  
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27. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 19:24 Beamer
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:45:
Pumas wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:18:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 16:46:
Uh, our country is bigger than all of Europe. By quite a bit. And that's not even including Alaska and Hawaii.

USA - 3,794,101 sq mi

Europe - 3,930,000 sq mi

I looked it up before posting

Right, but you are comparing the CONTINENT of Europe with the COUNTRY of the USA. Now subtract Russia, who is not part of Europe as a collection of countries, but rather a transcontinental country.

I mean, otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. Sure, the European CONTINENT is bigger than our country, but the North American CONTINENT is bigger than European CONTINENT by quite a bit as well.

Yup.
EU Size: 1,691,658 sq mi
Because I assume you meant the EU. That's what most people mean when they say "Europe," I think.
 
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26. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 18:45 Agent.X7
 
Pumas wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 18:18:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 16:46:
Uh, our country is bigger than all of Europe. By quite a bit. And that's not even including Alaska and Hawaii.

USA - 3,794,101 sq mi

Europe - 3,930,000 sq mi

I looked it up before posting

Right, but you are comparing the CONTINENT of Europe with the COUNTRY of the USA. Now subtract Russia, who is not part of Europe as a collection of countries, but rather a transcontinental country.

I mean, otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. Sure, the European CONTINENT is bigger than our country, but the North American CONTINENT is bigger than European CONTINENT by quite a bit as well.
 
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25. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 18:39 Julio
 
So when do content providers on the internet charge Verizon for access instead? Band together, and refuse all Verizon traffic until they pay up. This could go both ways...  
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24. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 18:18 Pumas
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 16:46:
Uh, our country is bigger than all of Europe. By quite a bit. And that's not even including Alaska and Hawaii.

USA - 3,794,101 sq mi

Europe - 3,930,000 sq mi

I looked it up before posting
 
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23. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 18:00 Agent.X7
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 17:09:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 13:28:
Cornelius, NC - where I am moving - has its own community broadband.

Have you read the articles on recent legislation to make that illegal? Crazy shit.

Yup. And that's why I laugh when people think the government would handle it better. THEY ARE HANDLING IT, and it's fucked. Without their interference, things like this bill would not be passed just because another business is bribing an official. They call it "campaign contributions," but unless you are a fucking moron you know what it really is.
 
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22. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 17:10 HorrorScope
 
Pumas wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 15:58:
The scale of the US is so much larger than people realize. The state I live in (Indiana) is 50% larger with 50% more people than your entire country.

Break it up amongst 50 units, don't look at it as one massive jobs, but 50 doable one's.
 
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21. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 17:09 HorrorScope
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 13:28:
Cornelius, NC - where I am moving - has its own community broadband.

Have you read the articles on recent legislation to make that illegal? Crazy shit.
 
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20. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 17:01 NewMaxx
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 13:28:
The real issue is that the current infrastructure prevents competitors from entering a lot of markets. The big companies already own all the wires and getting them to let you use them is costly. Stringing your own copper or fiber is ludicrously expensive, and getting the states/counties/towns/cities to let you do it...

Part of it is "last mile" syndrome, but it's actually very similar to the monopolies a lot of power companies had in some states. I know this because my father was a top executive in one that was effectively a monopoly in that state. Things finally did get de-regulated and it allowed a ton of smaller companies to prevail, but guess what happened? First, prices went up 50% across-the-board. It took years before the competition made a dent in that. Second, it didn't actually change anything because that big company still handled all the lines...the other ones paid for the rights of access, as you suggest here. Lastly, as I began my comment, the biggest cost to them was the last mile, because it's the most expensive to put into place (laying out a hub is one thing, hooking up tons of rural houses is another). People love to blame these big, bad companies but they don't realize that the only other option is that government-regulated monopoly. Yes, it was cheaper, but it held back innovation for decades...but people pay with their wallets before their brains.
 
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19. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 16:46 Agent.X7
 
Pumas wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 15:58:
InBlack wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 09:49:
Well said Pigeon. The article is complete and utter paid-for-shill bullshit. In my country (Croatia) the biggest cable company is currently promoting and provding a six month 120MBIT connection FREE trial for new users. Unrestricted, unlimited broadband with NO caps. For less than a dollar. If I wasnt already a customer I would be signing up ASAP. If a shitty east european country can do it, there is NO REASON whatsever that this should be a problem in the US. The infrastructure investment is just SPIN. Dont believe a word of it, optic-fibre is realtively cheap. The real reason for the terrible caps on broadband in the states is PERCIEVED PIRACY. The digital publishers, retailers, distributors, record companies, etc. are working in collusion with ISPs on this.

The scale of the US is so much larger than people realize. The state I live in (Indiana) is 50% larger with 50% more people than your entire country. Indiana isn't among the largest states in the US. Our country is nearly as big as ALL of Europe. That's a crapton of fiber to run.

That said, the communications companies running them certainly aren't hurting for money and could easily do the upgrade if they had to...but they don't because there's not enough competition.

Uh, our country is bigger than all of Europe. By quite a bit. And that's not even including Alaska and Hawaii.
 
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18. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 16:04 Mr. Tact
 
Yeah, scale is an issue for lots of things in the US. Even just concentrating on urban areas over, oh... say 25k population, would take years. I live in a city of over 100k and while there's on-going effort to fiber the city, not a lot has come of it. And I don't really expect to live to see it happen..  
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17. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 15:58 Pumas
 
InBlack wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 09:49:
Well said Pigeon. The article is complete and utter paid-for-shill bullshit. In my country (Croatia) the biggest cable company is currently promoting and provding a six month 120MBIT connection FREE trial for new users. Unrestricted, unlimited broadband with NO caps. For less than a dollar. If I wasnt already a customer I would be signing up ASAP. If a shitty east european country can do it, there is NO REASON whatsever that this should be a problem in the US. The infrastructure investment is just SPIN. Dont believe a word of it, optic-fibre is realtively cheap. The real reason for the terrible caps on broadband in the states is PERCIEVED PIRACY. The digital publishers, retailers, distributors, record companies, etc. are working in collusion with ISPs on this.

The scale of the US is so much larger than people realize. The state I live in (Indiana) is 50% larger with 50% more people than your entire country. Indiana isn't among the largest states in the US. Our country is nearly as big as ALL of Europe. That's a crapton of fiber to run.

That said, the communications companies running them certainly aren't hurting for money and could easily do the upgrade if they had to...but they don't because there's not enough competition.

This comment was edited on Feb 19, 2014, 16:03.
 
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16. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 15:00 Ozmodan
 
Whoever writes these wired articles is getting payed by the big boys. Why does the US have some of the slowest internet speeds out there, because the ISP's resist spending money on equipment upgrades. I have a friend that is 4 houses away from having cable and the ISP won't extend their line.

How not having net neutrality helps the little guy is completely lost in an article that is more a bunch of whims than any sort of facts.
 
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15. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 13:31 Agent.X7
 
And Verizon should be paying Netflix, not the other way around. Without content, you are providing a wide pipe to NOWHERE.  
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14. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 13:28 Agent.X7
 
Ratty wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 12:46:
Simon Says wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 10:42:
2 out of 3 paid for propaganda articles in one metaverse post, this is getting bad.
Both opinions in the second article are by libertarians. Certainly consistent with their philosophy: the government shouldn't legislate; let the magic finger of the free market sort things out. If you don't like what Comcast/Verizon is doing you can simply choose another ISP. Ha ha.

I'm a libertarian, but I disagree with the second article. The real issue is that the current infrastructure prevents competitors from entering a lot of markets. The big companies already own all the wires and getting them to let you use them is costly. Stringing your own copper or fiber is ludicrously expensive, and getting the states/counties/towns/cities to let you do it...

OH WAIT! No, I agree with them. If you don't like the deals you can get, switch providers. If you don't have another provider, get one! Cornelius, NC - where I am moving - has its own community broadband.
Time Warner charges me $60 a month for 6MB down/1 up. Cornelius charges me $69 for 20MB/5. Yeah, you can get cheaper deals on TW if you are a new customer, but then they crank up the price after 1 year.

If you cannot afford to beat them at their own game, you are not the one to be doing it. If you cannot figure out how to get in the game, you shouldn't be playing.

I think it's crazy to assume business will always sort itself out, but it's also crazy to think that the government ISN'T a business that is looking out for YOU.
 
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13. Re: Morning Metaverse Feb 19, 2014, 13:23 nin
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 19, 2014, 12:12:
Silly kids, don't they know drinking is endurance contest. It's about how much punishment you can withstand over decades. Fucking amateurs.


"It's not the years, it's the mileage."

 
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