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Op Ed

Polygon - Skyrim's success is the best argument against The Elder Scrolls Online.
If your players respond so positively to your approach to single-player gaming and optional DLC, moving in the literal opposite direction in every way doesn’t seem like a smart move, and the industry is rapidly changing in a way that makes it seem even more foolhardy. It's not that players may not be interested in the game, it's that The Elder Scrolls Online seems like a refutation of everything that made Skyrim so successful.

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38. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 19:20 wtf_man
 
You all need to quit saying Bethesda. TESO is NOT being made by Bethesda.

1. Zenimax is the Parent Company.

2. Elder Scrolls is made by Bethesda Game Studios.

3. Publishing arm of the company is called Bethesda Softworks.

4. TESO is being created by Zenimaz Online Studios ( Completely different folks)

5. Bethesda Game Stuios will continue to make Single player Elder Scrolls games and Fallout games.

6. As mentioned before, the only thing borrowed from the single player studio was some writers, and probably lore consulting.
 
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37. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 16:58 Steele Johnson
 
They had the chance to make something great (like an actual online version of an ES game), but instead built yet another last gen mmo with the same feeling and gameplay as all the rest. So disappointing.  
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36. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 14:23 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 11:09:
Beamer wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 03:42:
Shataan wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 03:31:
Too bad they didn `t just make a co op option to play against the a.I. in SkyRim. The new online version holds absolutely no interest for me.

See, now that would legitimately risk damaging the SP games, because it would add a significant new focus, take resources away from other SP areas, and change many of the decisions the devs would have made.


You guys and your unfounded fears.
it isn't a fear, its a comment on fear

so many here are concerned that tes online will detract from regular tes. But its a different team using a different budget, meaning it has no impact (unless it is a huge success and then influences.)

tes co-op, though, would have an impact, so it is odd to see people that think the mmo will ruin tes ask for co-op. Co-op requires skills the tes team doesn't have. It requires changes to missions and loot. It requires changes to how the engine is built. It requires changes to the plot, unless both players become the hero of the land and the grey fox.

could it just be something where two people run around mindlessly, with no plot? Sure, but even that requires engine changes. And Bethesda would never half-ass that, anyway.

basically, everyone saying "just slap co-op in" fails to realize how hard that is. Hard things take time and money. Time and money has to come from somewhere, so it will come from the single payer experience.

essentially, co-op in tes will guarantee a changed sp experience, as design changes are needed to accommodate both and as there would be less money and time to devote to sp.
it always shocks me when people think devs have infinite time and money, so anything they don't do is just laziness or stupidity, not a tradeoff due to the resource constraint. That they can just add anything without having to remove elsewhere.
 
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35. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 14:07 HorrorScope
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 13:15:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 11:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 02:26:

Yeah and they'd be wrong. It wouldn't be awesome, it'd be a total clusterfuck. Not to mention that can't ever work as long as you have load screens at every door.

LOL, you are right, mankind would never be able to overcome such feat. If there were never multiplayer games, you'd argue it couldn't be possible I reckon.

What is this I don't even..... Skyrim + COOP = Impossible. Your post makes no sense.

No yours doesn't. You say in your first blurb, not really possible because of ________. I say they can over come it, mankind has a way, I also threw out an analogy. What is confusing you? Elder Scrolls + COOP is totally possible if they wanted to make it. No question at all. They choose not to, no more to it than that.
 
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34. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 13:15 eRe4s3r
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 11:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 02:26:

Yeah and they'd be wrong. It wouldn't be awesome, it'd be a total clusterfuck. Not to mention that can't ever work as long as you have load screens at every door.

LOL, you are right, mankind would never be able to overcome such feat. If there were never multiplayer games, you'd argue it couldn't be possible I reckon.

What is this I don't even..... Skyrim + COOP = Impossible. Your post makes no sense.
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 11:22 HorrorScope
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 02:26:

Yeah and they'd be wrong. It wouldn't be awesome, it'd be a total clusterfuck. Not to mention that can't ever work as long as you have load screens at every door.

LOL, you are right, mankind would never be able to overcome such feat. If there were never multiplayer games, you'd argue it couldn't be possible I reckon.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 11:09 HorrorScope
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 03:42:
Shataan wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 03:31:
Too bad they didn `t just make a co op option to play against the a.I. in SkyRim. The new online version holds absolutely no interest for me.

See, now that would legitimately risk damaging the SP games, because it would add a significant new focus, take resources away from other SP areas, and change many of the decisions the devs would have made.


You guys and your unfounded fears.
 
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31. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 08:45 NewMaxx
 
Ray Marden wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 05:14:
However, I don't think this game is the one that manages to find the right mix of depth, new content, overall player experience, etc. TESO comes off as a bit confused as to its design and I fully expect it to go free to play after it mines the initial purchasers.

It's definitely confused in the sense that it needs to appeal to two types of players simultaneously. I think it's something worth trying - certainly TES players have been clamoring for multiplayer since the dawn of time - but I'm not convinced MMO was the way to go. It's a huge investment that requires you to have your priorities straight. Quite honestly if you want my opinion, an MMO maker has to be a masochist.

I'm still going to give it a chance. I was impressed with the speed they had overhauling certain aspects of the game between betas. I'm cool with the SP aspects if they can make the MP ones work at even a basic level at launch. I played SWTOR and GW2 before this in both beta and launch, enjoyed the heck out of both even though people were throwing hissy fits about every little thing (masochist thing again). That doesn't mean I'd keep paying a sub, though.
 
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30. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 08:36 NewMaxx
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 20:57:
You can't say under NDA? WTF? Because everyone knows Mr. Tom Newmaxx of 54 Elm Street in Peoria, IL?

Actually, I use this nickname for many gaming sites and all of my betas. I'm in over a dozen betas a year. I'd rather not kill that reputation to defend a minor point. I tend to be an ethical person. Regardless, you can probably get that specific info from one of the fifty press previews...if you can stand going through them all, lol.
 
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29. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 05:14 Ray Marden
 
I don't think a subscription is inherently an issue, but the increased cost needs to be worth it. I don't want a market full of free to play/pay to win games.

However, I don't think this game is the one that manages to find the right mix of depth, new content, overall player experience, etc. TESO comes off as a bit confused as to its design and I fully expect it to go free to play after it mines the initial purchasers.
It's a bit boring and plays like Skyrim lite.
It's a shame the publishers are going straight for the pay to win paywalls rather than trying out lower prices for full games or trying sub-$15.00 subscription rates.

Noting how confining the world feels,
Ray
 
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28. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 03:42 Beamer
 
Shataan wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 03:31:
Too bad they didn `t just make a co op option to play against the a.I. in SkyRim. The new online version holds absolutely no interest for me.

See, now that would legitimately risk damaging the SP games, because it would add a significant new focus, take resources away from other SP areas, and change many of the decisions the devs would have made.

I'd rather a different team do a different product that in no way alters the great SP games than the same team try to make a co-op product on top of the SP games.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 03:31 Shataan
 
Too bad they didn `t just make a co op option to play against the a.I. in SkyRim. The new online version holds absolutely no interest for me.
 
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26. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 02:56 Creston
 
saluk wrote on Feb 8, 2014, 02:28:
The MMO audience is a finicky, fickle one; but it is also quite a lot larger than the single player rpg audience.

Is it really? I kinda doubt that, tbh. Maybe WoW, but no other MMO ever sold near what Skyrim did.

All of that said... how often do really good (on paper) business decisions produce great games?

I'm gonna go with just about never.

And implementation has been a disaster from most accounts. So, nice try Bethesda. Get back to what you are good at.

To be fair, it's not Bethesda doing this. Not the Skyrim guys. Completely new studio who apparently had never played a single ES game before, as evidenced by their "People want to read books in the game???" comments.

 
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25. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 02:28 saluk
 
This article misses the point. ESO was never really intended to be for Skyrim fans, or at least not exclusively. It was an attempt, as I see it, to reuse the lore that they have built up over 5 games, and work on something different. It's also a way to reach a market that you can't reach. As a growing business, I'm sure they looked at Skyrim's success, and the size of the gaming audience in general, and realize they have probably capped it. Pretty close to every single player who would be interested in what the Elder Scrolls games have to offer bought Skyrim. The MMO audience is a finicky, fickle one; but it is also quite a lot larger than the single player rpg audience.

All of that said... how often do really good (on paper) business decisions produce great games? And implementation has been a disaster from most accounts. So, nice try Bethesda. Get back to what you are good at.
 
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24. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 02:26 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 20:53:
Saboth wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 18:52:
I agree with the article. I really can't stand playing with other people. There's always that guy that steals your last kill when you have collect 10 quest and you wait around for respawns. That's not epic. You felt like a real badass in Skyrim, but in MMOs, you're just another shmoe paying his monthly fee hoping to eek out a purple that will be obsolete in a month. The best times I had in an MMO was back in Everquest, where the world was so huge and disconnected, you could explore an area for hours and never see another player.

I think there ARE a lot of people out there who think "It would be AWESOME to play coop Skyrim with my bros!" The solution to this, of course, is not an MMO, but rather a coop mode for Skyrim. It's a lot cheaper too.

Yeah and they'd be wrong. It wouldn't be awesome, it'd be a total clusterfuck. Not to mention that can't ever work as long as you have load screens at every door.
 
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23. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 01:27 jdreyer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 22:34:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 20:57:

You can't say under NDA? WTF? Because everyone knows Mr. Tom Newmaxx of 54 Elm Street in Peoria, IL?
Because no one likes to be sued for breaching it. Well if you're in the beta feel free to dump all the pics and stuff you want. Useful tip though, they've got your username plastered over everything so you can't.

Doesn't keep him from talking about it. No way really to track that back unless they get a warrant or something. Think they're really going to take it that far?
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Feb 8, 2014, 00:06 Agent.X7
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 23:19:
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 19:03:
Mumble grumble porta potty blah blah MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION mumble grumble titty cocka blah blah

Caca, not cocka. Like doo doo, poo, poop, turd, log, scheisse, et al.

Can't see the forest for the trees.

Can't smell your own shit on your knees.


 
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21. Re: Op Ed Feb 7, 2014, 23:38 Redmask
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 19:03:
Mumble grumble porta potty blah blah MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION mumble grumble titty cocka blah blah

It's also a fairly uninteresting game.
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Feb 7, 2014, 23:33 Scud
 
NewMaxx wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 18:58:
Creston wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 18:28:
Also, as much as I agree with everything Ben is saying, he's forgetting one major part: Mods.

Mods are what have been making the Elder Scrolls so enormously successful on the PC since Morrowind.

Will there be mods in ESO? Why no, of course there won't.

There's reason to believe there will be, for reasons I can't disclose under the NDA (although the extent of the mods remains in question). Might I say I agree that player-created content is an important thing for all MMO's moving forward. I've gotten a taste of it with some of SOE's games and it's really taking off with EQN/EQLM.

NDA or not, I think it's a safe bet that any MMOG is not going to allow anywhere near the modding freedom that we see in single player games like Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. So as far as I'm concerned it's still the death of modding for all practical intents and purposes.
 
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19. Re: Op Ed Feb 7, 2014, 23:19 Cutter
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 19:03:
Mumble grumble porta potty blah blah MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION mumble grumble titty cocka blah blah

Caca, not cocka. Like doo doo, poo, poop, turd, log, scheisse, et al.
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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