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Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released

The PlayStation.Blog now offers a Thief 101 Trailer with details on the upcoming stealth/action remake. The accompanying text says Thief is now gold, so it is on track for its planned release on February 25th. Here's word on the clip:

In this feature trailer, you will learn everything you need to know about Thief, the upcoming stealth-action game from the studio that brought you Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Out soon on PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4, the game takes full advantage of Sony's next-gen graphics and hardware to deliver a tactile and immersive experience like nothing you've felt before.

From the cover of darkness, use specialized arrows to manipulate your environment in your favour, dispatch guards without a sound with your blackjack, and outsmart all the security measures in your path. Whether you are a ruthless predator or silent as a ghost, you will do everything it takes to get your hands on the most coveted treasures the City holds.

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138. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 8, 2014, 07:21 Jerykk
 
MyRealName wrote on Feb 7, 2014, 19:40:
The dreaded "You've lost your memory" trope is in this game; I didn't know that. So you've lost it, but you remember how to be a master thief well enough. And then there's the one about "Nothing is off limits." Yes, well, as long as it highlights blue, and you don't have to jump to get there. I remember in the old days when you had to be within reaching distance of something, and had to mouse over it, before it would frob-highlight. Now you just hit focus and everything within view that can be interacted with glows like a blue beacon? That's just not... good. How many more generations of games must pass before greed isn't the driving force, and we go back to the challenge aspect of gaming? How many before dumbing-down is seen as a bad thing?

One correction to a post about 6 pages back: The Dark Mod is for Doom 3*, not Unreal 3.

*And in fact, it doesn't even require Doom 3 anymore, as it has gone standalone.
http://www.thedarkmod.com



You can make the game as challenging as you want it to be

Max out the difficulty, turn off all the UI elements and turn on all the difficulty mods. Voila, hardest stealth game ever.
 
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137. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 7, 2014, 19:40 MyRealName
 
The dreaded "You've lost your memory" trope is in this game; I didn't know that. So you've lost it, but you remember how to be a master thief well enough. And then there's the one about "Nothing is off limits." Yes, well, as long as it highlights blue, and you don't have to jump to get there. I remember in the old days when you had to be within reaching distance of something, and had to mouse over it, before it would frob-highlight. Now you just hit focus and everything within view that can be interacted with glows like a blue beacon? That's just not... good. How many more generations of games must pass before greed isn't the driving force, and we go back to the challenge aspect of gaming? How many before dumbing-down is seen as a bad thing?

One correction to a post about 6 pages back: The Dark Mod is for Doom 3*, not Unreal 3.

*And in fact, it doesn't even require Doom 3 anymore, as it has gone standalone.
http://www.thedarkmod.com


 
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136. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 7, 2014, 17:03 Quinn
 
Assumed that's what you meant with Difficulty Mods. Although we are speaking of modifications, it makes little sense to call it mods though, with the gaming jargon and all.

It's a nice list of things you can change. It requires willpower, though. I've been playing Might & Magic X Legacy and that game is kinda hardcore like the games in the old days. The lack of quest hands-holding was something I really had to get used to again and I ended up Alt-Tabing to google stuff more often than I wanted. So, in THIEF, I'll probably leave the quest-markers open. BUT there's another, more important reason why I want quest markers: More often than not I've skipped content of a game because I accidently went into the right direction, triggering cutscenes and the likes which blocked me off from the path I took. Yup, definitely gonna have quest-markers for exactly that reason. Apart from that:

No health regen
No health- and focusbar
No enemy awareness warnings
More enemy damage (was that possible?)
And I think I'll remove the loot-flash
If it's possible I'll have the map have quest-markers but turn them off in the actual HUD and remove the minimap too.

Yeah, that'll be a nice setup.
 
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135. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 7, 2014, 00:34 Jerykk
 
We're both talking about the coming Thief game, yeah? For some reason you talk like you've already played the game and it's been out for a while in general. What mod are you talking about? You mean mod as in modification as in customization option in the difficulty settings? This or that, there's not much use of a mod if the game isn't balanced by itself regarding the loot and (xp)upgrades since you won't realize a possible imbalance until later in the game I think.

Difficulty mods

I think it's safe to assume that without any difficulty mods, the game will be fairly generous with the item and upgrade prices. Default difficulty is designed for casual gamers, after all. Difficulty mods, on the other hand, are designed specifically for hardcore gamers so I'm pretty sure they'll be substantial. With the increased pricing mod, I imagine that you won't be able to buy every upgrade or item even if you collect every piece of loot, making every piece of loot far more significant.

That aside, I typically don't end up buying anything in stealth games anyway. I play a minimalist ghost style where I don't neutralize anyone and try not to alter the environment in any way. As such, weapons and gadgets are generally pretty useless to me. I collect loot for the sake of collecting loot. In Thief, collecting loot is my primary objective.

This comment was edited on Feb 7, 2014, 02:31.
 
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134. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 13:26 Quinn
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 6, 2014, 12:30:
Like I said, it can collapse the game. The game is primarily about stealth, in Thief's case mostly to pick locks, pick pockets, and just steal stuff while sneaking. Of course there's also the part of knocking down guards and following a story, but if the actual stealing of stuff really has no point...? I need not elaborate further, I do hope.

There are plenty of things you can buy with money and money is acquired by stealing loot. There's also a difficulty mod that makes everything significantly more expensive, meaning that stealing becomes all that much more important.

We're both talking about the coming Thief game, yeah? For some reason you talk like you've already played the game and it's been out for a while in general. What mod are you talking about? You mean mod as in modification as in customization option in the difficulty settings? This or that, there's not much use of a mod if the game isn't balanced by itself regarding the loot and (xp)upgrades since you won't realize a possible imbalance until later in the game I think.

Prez wrote on Feb 6, 2014, 13:09:
When I game I really like to get into a role. So if the name of the game is "Thief", and I am playing the part of THE master thief Garrett, and there is a locked safe hidden in a mansion crawling with guards, that is all the motivation I need. I AM going to have the shiny!

With that I can actually relate -- the completionist that I am. I also know the statistics at the end of each level tell you how much percentage of the loot you managed to steal. That alone would sadly motivate me. Still, I'm hoping for proper motivation instead of the obsessive type.
 
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133. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 13:09 Prez
 
When I game I really like to get into a role. So if the name of the game is "Thief", and I am playing the part of THE master thief Garrett, and there is a locked safe hidden in a mansion crawling with guards, that is all the motivation I need. I AM going to have the shiny!  
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132. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 12:30 Jerykk
 
Like I said, it can collapse the game. The game is primarily about stealth, in Thief's case mostly to pick locks, pick pockets, and just steal stuff while sneaking. Of course there's also the part of knocking down guards and following a story, but if the actual stealing of stuff really has no point...? I need not elaborate further, I do hope.

There are plenty of things you can buy with money and money is acquired by stealing loot. There's also a difficulty mod that makes everything significantly more expensive, meaning that stealing becomes all that much more important.
 
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131. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 11:15 Beamer
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 21:32:
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 18:37:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 18:28:
It has been determined this is not a sim, right?

No, apparently SMA out-debated me and it's officially a sim.



I love SMA, but don't think calling this a thievery sim makes even the tiniest bit of sense.

That's not at all what I said. :/

But that's what the guy I was arguing with said, and you jumped in to basically take his side. He said Thief needs to be a Stealth Sim.

There's no such thing.
Should it have a deeper AI and physics set than Doom?
Yes.
Does that make it a Stealth Sim? God no.
 
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130. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 07:49 gray
 
All I know is, that voiceover is in complete contradiction with what they are showing us in the trailer. Is this even legal?  
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129. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 6, 2014, 00:19 Jerykk
 
Note that I said meaningful complexity. The features you cite do not make for moment to moment gameplay that is anymore complex. For example, one of the agreed upon design flaws of Deus Ex is that many of the skills, weapons, and augs are completely useless, see Environmental Training, the plasma gun, or the Targeting Aug, leading to a relative paucity of viable character builds. The basic division was stealth/infiltration build or combat build. In essence, you have two ways to play the game, each with significant overlap, leading to a fairly standard character build, where augs become less of the game changers you describe, and are more temporary powerups, like the invisibility or slowfall potions of Thief.

While certain skills and augs are certainly useless, others are not and determine how you deal with any given situation. For example, if I choose the Speed Enhancement aug instead of the Silent Running aug, I'll have more traversal options but fewer stealth options. If I choose Cloak instead of Radar Transparency, I'll have no problem sneaking past organic threats but much more trouble sneaking past electronic threats. Same applies to the skill system. Your options for any given problem are largely determined by your chosen skills and augs. The fact that there are multiple viable builds already gives the game more meaningful complexity than Thief.

Also, Environment Training isn't useless. It greatly increases the durability and longevity of Ballistic Armor which makes quite a difference if you're going for a combat build.
 
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128. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 21:32 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 18:37:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 18:28:
It has been determined this is not a sim, right?

No, apparently SMA out-debated me and it's officially a sim.



I love SMA, but don't think calling this a thievery sim makes even the tiniest bit of sense.

That's not at all what I said. :/
 
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127. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 20:35 Fletch
 
Squirmer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 00:24:
You cannot promote player freedom by pre-designing gameplay opportunities.

This.
 
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126. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 20:32 Fletch
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 23:42:
I'm not sure why I even bother with these arguments anymore. It's the same thing every time, whether it be DX:HR, SC: Blacklist, XCOM: EU or any other game that people shit on before release. Same illogical arguments based on unfounded assumptions and false correlations.

Yeah, I don't either, Spock. It's not like you don't say the same condescending shit over and over. Or do you just cut and paste?

Anyhoo, Jerykk in 40. Who won the pool?
 
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125. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 18:37 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 18:28:
It has been determined this is not a sim, right?

No, apparently SMA out-debated me and it's officially a sim.



I love SMA, but don't think calling this a thievery sim makes even the tiniest bit of sense.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
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124. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 18:28 HorrorScope
 
It has been determined this is not a sim, right?  
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123. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 16:22 Quinn
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 14:20:
Quinn wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 12:34:
If there's no motivation to steal -- like there is no motivation to hunt in Far Cry 3 pretty short into the game -- the entire game can collapse. Luckily they made the smart choice to remove the retarded decision of XP killz, and instead made the actual worth of the stuff you steal be the Experience Points. Kudos.

Looking forward to the game, now. Allot.

If there's no motivation to steal, there will be motivation to do something. And if that something requires sneaking and is fun, then the game is fun.

Like I said, it can collapse the game. The game is primarily about stealth, in Thief's case mostly to pick locks, pick pockets, and just steal stuff while sneaking. Of course there's also the part of knocking down guards and following a story, but if the actual stealing of stuff really has no point...? I need not elaborate further, I do hope.

You're comparing it to the motivation to hunt in FC3, but that was such a tiny part of FC3 that, when the motivation ended, who cared? It was a minigame or a sidequest at best. In reality, it was more something to do while running from point A to point B.

In FC3 it didn't matter that much, of course. It did, however, kinda defeat the purpose of roaming around hunting beasts.

I wouldn't expect Thief to suck at its primary gaming function, much like FC3 didn't suck at killing people in beautiful scenery.

And that's what I'm hoping, too.
 
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122. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 14:45 AirWreck
 
Whoa! SMA just out-debated Jerykk and Beamer in the same thread. That's got to be worth 1000 BN xp points.

I was a doubter, but am now convinced this has potential (thanks Jerykk for the useful links). Pre-ordered with a gmg deal. Gameplay looks solid with lots of options. Only concern is the overall feel of it, Thief 1&2 have an unmatched aural experience, and I really like the style of the old cut-scenes/briefings. Going to miss Russell, he was also the voice of the dumb guard (Benny).

This game doesn't have to do a lot to be better than Deadly Shadows (playing now for the first time), the gameplay in that one with both jumping and getting things you want to frob to highlight is very awkward. And all the levels are small (and I don't mean the really tiny sub-divisions). They feel comparable to Bafford's at best in size.
 
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121. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 14:20 Beamer
 
Quinn wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 12:34:
If there's no motivation to steal -- like there is no motivation to hunt in Far Cry 3 pretty short into the game -- the entire game can collapse. Luckily they made the smart choice to remove the retarded decision of XP killz, and instead made the actual worth of the stuff you steal be the Experience Points. Kudos.

Looking forward to the game, now. Allot.

If there's no motivation to steal, there will be motivation to do something. And if that something requires sneaking and is fun, then the game is fun.

You're comparing it to the motivation to hunt in FC3, but that was such a tiny part of FC3 that, when the motivation ended, who cared? It was a minigame or a sidequest at best. In reality, it was more something to do while running from point A to point B.

I wouldn't expect Thief to suck at its primary gaming function, much like FC3 didn't suck at killing people in beautiful scenery.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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120. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 13:20 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 02:35:
You're right, I haven't played DX in years. However, claiming that DX wasn't any more complex than Thief is ridiculous. It had the augmentation system (with multiple upgrades for each aug), the skill system, locational damage for both the player and enemies, more weapons (with stackable upgrades), more items, more character types and more interactive objects in the environment. You could jump off a building, turn on your leg aug and then kill someone by landing on them. You could stick mines to a wall and then use them to climb up said wall. You could pick up and throw a toxic barrel at a group of enemies and then turn on your environmental protection aug and beat them to death while they choke to death. You could even kill someone by throwing enough lockpicks at them because every item and object had mass and applied variable amounts of damage on impact.

Note that I said meaningful complexity. The features you cite do not make for moment to moment gameplay that is anymore complex. For example, one of the agreed upon design flaws of Deus Ex is that many of the skills, weapons, and augs are completely useless, see Environmental Training, the plasma gun, or the Targeting Aug, leading to a relative paucity of viable character builds. The basic division was stealth/infiltration build or combat build. In essence, you have two ways to play the game, each with significant overlap, leading to a fairly standard character build, where augs become less of the game changers you describe, and are more temporary powerups, like the invisibility or slowfall potions of Thief.

I won't deny that Deus Ex has more "stuff" in it, but "more" does not necessarily translate into a richer experience. Yes, more parts mean a more complex whole, but those parts have to contribute something meaningful in order for a more complex whole to be a richer whole. In most cases, the additional complexity of Deus Ex in comparison with Thief, did not really add anything of the value which you are describing: for most moment to moment gameplay, the kinds of gameplay options the player has in Thief and Deus Ex are equal in significance.

Again, I love Deus Ex but to hold it up as a paragon of complex, emergent gameplay while simultaneously suggesting that Thief is simple and static in comparison, really isn't that accurate.
 
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119. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 13:07 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 11:11:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 02:02:
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 01:33:
oh, so Doom, Civ and Dr. Mario are rpgs.

listen, I get what you're going for, but these are predefined terms. You can't call Dumb & Dumber a drama because its acted out. You can't call WalMart a department store because it has different areas separated by category.

You seem to be showing an ignorance of the history of game design, failing to grasp the significance of Ultima VI and VII with their "simulation-based" designs, and the influence that had on Ultima Underworld, designed by LGS, then Blue Sky Productions, and its spiritual successors of System Shock, Thief, and Deus Ex. What is meant by simulation in this context is that if there is a toilet, you should be able to flush it, or if you are in a kitchen, you ought to be able to cook something, or if there is a crate, it shouldn't be immovably glued to a floor, but it should be something you can pick up or push. Call of Duty, for example, is not a "simulation-based" design, because nearly the entire environment is non-interactive unless it's a plot essential door that needs to be opened or switch that needs to be flipped. If you don't want to call that a simulation, then fine, but this the terminology Origin Systems used for the design philosophy animating Ultima VI and onward, and which Looking Glass brought to their games -- remember that Warren Spector was an Origin producer, and thus heavily involved in both the mainline Ultima Series, and the Origin published LGS titles, i.e. Ultima Underworld and System Shock -- was VERY different than that in Doom.

Simulating crates that can be picked up does not make a game a sim. You're really just talking about a physics engine.

Thief didn't have toilets. Not every house even had a bathroom. And the AI certainly didn't poop. Is it a sim? No.
Duke Nukem had flushing toilets. Was it a sim? No.

If you want to use marketing speak and say that System Shock simulated more things than Doom did, fine. It was more advanced. But being more advanced doesn't make it a space marine sim.

The point is that the environment is interactive in a way that suggests an attempt to simulate a world, rather than having the environment be completely static and a mere backdrop for killing things. The goal of this particular design concept, which has subsequently been dropped as games have become simpler, was to create game environments that were as interactive as the real world and allowed people to apply real world problem solving skills to the game, i.e. rather than thinking in terms of mechanics to solve problems, you think in terms "if I were really there, what would I do?" The latter type of problem solving is only possible if the player can affect his environment in meaningful ways and if the environment responds as it would in the real world. In short, instead of static and arbitrary, i.e. all the doors are locked except for the one you need to go through, game levels, you would need to create simulated places, modeled on real world environments, featuring the kinds of interactivity you would expect if you were actually there. They never quite reached this goal, but you must admit that the latter Ultimas, Thief or Deus Ex feature worlds which are much more interactive in nature than their contemporaries.

Everyone agrees that DCS:A-10C is a sim, no? Well what makes it a sim? Generally, it is a sim because it is a realistic, interactive model of a particular aircraft, in which you can do the things you would in real life in that aircraft and the aircraft will respond accordingly. If you want to configure HOF and RPM of the CBU-97 from the inventory page of the DSMS, you can do so as you would in real life, and then when you conduct a CCRP release of the CBU-97, again as you would in real life, the burst pattern of the CBU-97 will reflect the values you inputted for HOF and RPM in the DSMS. That's why people call it a sim. Yet, if one were to create a game in which the environment is a kitchen, and you can cook in it, producing dishes based upon how you cook, it too would be a sim. Is Ultima VII a simulation of this nature? No, but it tried to approach things from the perspective of simulation -- model real world interactivity and behavior -- rather than artificial mechanics. The LGS/Ion Storm legacy of games all comes from Ultima VI and VII, for which Warren Spector was a producer, and thus were based around this idea of "less artificial mechanics, more modeling of real world behavior".

If you don't want to call it a sim, fine, no one is forcing you, but you do need to recognize that there is a fundamental difference of design approach between games like System Shock, and games like Doom or Super Mario.
 
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