Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Out of the Blue

Happy Chinese New Year! Yup, it seems like we were only just discussing this around a year ago, but here it is again. Broncos fans will be happy with the omen, as we begin the Year of the Horse, though there's no seahawk or generic bird on the calendar for that to have been an option here (closest for that would be the rooster). So there it is, happy Year of the Horse... though I'm sure I'll still be writing Year of the Snake on my checks for months.

Traditional Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Shape Fold 2.
Sin Mark.
Square Jump.
Link: Transporting the CIA A-12 Blackbird. Thanks The Flying Penguin.
Stories: Doctor walks six miles in snow to perform life-saving brain surgery.
Doves attacked during Pope's prayer for peace in Ukraine.
Science: New treatment shows promise for kids with peanut allergies.
End the Ban on Psychoactive Drug Research.
Acid bath turns cells from any tissue into stem cells.
Images: Video Games Are Art.
747-8 Seahawk Flight Path.
Media: Taylor Swift Attacked at Grammys.
Drunken Rampage Plays Out Like GTA V. NSFW.
‘This is a Trent Reznor Song’: Nine Inch Nails by-the-numbers parody.

View
57 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >

37. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 17:00 nin
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:58:
PHJF wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:46:
Alcohol can be used responsibly

... as a disinfectant. It would really be interesting to see alcohol as demonized as every other explicitly harmful drug.

Uh, prohibition era?


heh.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:58 Agent.X7
 
PHJF wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:46:
Alcohol can be used responsibly

... as a disinfectant. It would really be interesting to see alcohol as demonized as every other explicitly harmful drug.

Uh, prohibition era?
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
35. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:57 Agent.X7
 
Creston wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:26:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 15:42:
It basically destroyed the illicit drug market in that city b/c no one could compete with the gov't on price.

And you think that all the bad guys are just going to shrug and be like "Well, shit, guess I better go get a real job then?"

When prohibition ended, organized crime turned to illicit drugs. Wherre will they go when prohibition ends again? Who knows. Whatever else we leave illegal.

Of course, a lot of the criminals during prohibition were simply bartenders who refused to comply, who went right back to being legal workers when prohibition ended.
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
34. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:46 PHJF
 
Alcohol can be used responsibly

... as a disinfectant. It would really be interesting to see alcohol as demonized as every other explicitly harmful drug.
 
Avatar 17251
 
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
33. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:43 mch
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:10:

I read the price of MJ in CO a couple weeks ago, and isn't like 2x-3x more than the black market? Not sure how that is going to pan out. It is an experiment, and I am glad I don't live there. It will be ineteresting that is for sure.

It surely depends on where you live (I would image marijuana is a bit cheaper in the Pacific Northwest), but someone posted a receipt from CO a few weeks back and it was about equivalent to what I've seen here on the east coast (and that's after the maybe $10-15 in taxes that got tagged on, IIRC).
 
PSN: CaseDesignate
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:43 Agent.X7
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 16:10:
There was an experiment in Liverpool in the 90s. All drugs could be obtained by prescription if A) the person registered with the gov't. B) they attended a once-weekly narcotics anonymous meeting. The drugs were clean, cost the users $5 a month or some pittance, etc. The result: theft dropped by half, prostitution by 2/3s, etc. etc. It basically destroyed the illicit drug market in that city b/c no one could compete with the gov't on price. Why we can't have a sensible conversation about drug laws and illegality in this country is so frustrating. At least we're getting somewhere with the legalization of MJ in CO and WA.

What about the long term effects on the body, addiction, need more over time to have same effect, people driving around on narcotics, people working on narcotics, etc etc etc.

I read the price of MJ in CO a couple weeks ago, and isn't like 2x-3x more than the black market? Not sure how that is going to pan out. It is an experiment, and I am glad I don't live there. It will be ineteresting that is for sure.

It will kickstart all sorts of rules at work, laws, etc etc into what will be considered legal and what wont. (and even spawn some serious privacy issues) For instance. At work, we don't have random checks but the city public works has random weekly checks. It is a lottery. Your name comes up, go pee in a cup. I am sure employers in CO are battling with all sorts of issues.....again....glad I don't live/work in CO or WA.

But, if we get in a critical incident, we go to the hospital and draw blood. No questions asked. (which is why I took time off from work when I was taking the meds)

Substitute ALCOHOL every time you typed NARCOTICS and you can see where we are going. Alcohol can be used responsibly, and it can be abused. I would never say it is OK for people to go driving on any sort of medication or drug that effects their ability to do so safely. There's also a reason public intoxication is illegal in most places. But, making something defacto illegal does not work, period. Full stop.

Prostitution, drugs, gambling - these things have been around since the beginnings of the human race. You cannot stop people from doing them, so maybe it's best to let people choose for themselves (which they do anyway) and not punish the rest of us for it. 100 years ago the only argument against drugs was race. Chinese used opium, blacks and Mexicans used cocaine and pot, and then we started punishing them for it, and here we are 100 years later taxing the shit out of everyone to pay for a war that will NEVER end. The social ramifications are astounding. To think that making these things legal once again will lead to more use is a fallacy. In every case where drugs have been made legal, there is a short term spike in usage where people who would have used but were too afraid of the consequences try it out, and then the usage rates actually DECLINE overall.

Meanwhile the crushing grip that organized crime has on the market falls away, crime decreases exponentially, and everyone wins except maybe the busybody jerks that can't keep their noses out of other peoples' business.
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
31. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:29 Creston
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 14:20:
I simply believe in freedom and personal responsibility.

There is no such thing as personal responsibility in the US. It's always someone else's fault.

If we instilled an actual idea of personal responsibility in this country, we could legalize every hard drug ever invented for all I care. As long as the users then understand that they don't get to go to hospitals on my dime.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
30. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:26 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 15:42:
It basically destroyed the illicit drug market in that city b/c no one could compete with the gov't on price.

And you think that all the bad guys are just going to shrug and be like "Well, shit, guess I better go get a real job then?"
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
29. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 16:10 xXBatmanXx
 
There was an experiment in Liverpool in the 90s. All drugs could be obtained by prescription if A) the person registered with the gov't. B) they attended a once-weekly narcotics anonymous meeting. The drugs were clean, cost the users $5 a month or some pittance, etc. The result: theft dropped by half, prostitution by 2/3s, etc. etc. It basically destroyed the illicit drug market in that city b/c no one could compete with the gov't on price. Why we can't have a sensible conversation about drug laws and illegality in this country is so frustrating. At least we're getting somewhere with the legalization of MJ in CO and WA.

What about the long term effects on the body, addiction, need more over time to have same effect, people driving around on narcotics, people working on narcotics, etc etc etc.

I read the price of MJ in CO a couple weeks ago, and isn't like 2x-3x more than the black market? Not sure how that is going to pan out. It is an experiment, and I am glad I don't live there. It will be ineteresting that is for sure.

It will kickstart all sorts of rules at work, laws, etc etc into what will be considered legal and what wont. (and even spawn some serious privacy issues) For instance. At work, we don't have random checks but the city public works has random weekly checks. It is a lottery. Your name comes up, go pee in a cup. I am sure employers in CO are battling with all sorts of issues.....again....glad I don't live/work in CO or WA.

But, if we get in a critical incident, we go to the hospital and draw blood. No questions asked. (which is why I took time off from work when I was taking the meds)
 
Avatar 10714
 
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
28. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:55 xXBatmanXx
 
Well, reading everything is interesting - but remember one thing. Not even doctors can be trsuted to use the stuff and give it out in a helpful or responsible manner. So now people want to open up the flood gates even more!? I don't find that helpful at all.

There are already solutions that are 10x greater than morphine that aren't as damaging, there are things on the medics belts that are better than morphine. Can't remember what it is called, but I believe it is better across the board. Not discounting the possible applications of each item, but I have zero to no faith in "medical professionals" making a healthy decision for people.

I know my opinions and attitude towards this stuff is skewed, but my daily intake of seeing how out of control the current situation of rampant abuse daily medication is, is enough to take the stance of "put on the damn parking break and lets reatach the wheels to this bus before we go any further".

Shit is broken guys. Badly. I took some time off from work cause my back went out, and for the first time in my life I felt I had no other choice (other than doing physical therapy daily and chiro daily)than to take the narcotics route. It took me (someone who isn't a hibitual ANYTHING and I even hate taking an advil as well) all of 2 days to realize why people abuse the stuff. I went from not walking to walking in 48 hours. I quit the pills after 4 days and increased my physical therapy.

It is a great discussion, and don't think I don't agree with you guys on some level, but saying Meth and other TOXIC synthetics that have no place in the human body should be used for medical reasons......is just....it isn't ok.

Lastly, the main problem is potency. We can make things so pure, it is scary.
 
Avatar 10714
 
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
27. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:49 Agent.X7
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 15:24:
Hahaha, never gets old, Blue. Love it! I should order some checks just so I can do that in stores.

All natch drugs like weed, shrooms, peyote, et al. should be legal and everyone knows it. And while I agree with the hard shit like coke and smack being illegal - except for medical uses - I don't think they should be prison offenses either.



Coca leaves are actually really good for a variety of things. Cocaine is a concentrated extract which can be, and is, used in minor surgeries. There's really no reason for it to be illegal other than the objection to drug use recreationally.
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
26. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:42 jdreyer
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 14:20:
And before anybody accuses me of being a user that wants drugs legalized so I can get them easier: I don't do drugs. I have severe anxiety about drugs, and even taking Advil is a last resort for me.

I simply believe in freedom and personal responsibility.

Ditto for me. The closest I come is a beer or two. For me the big issue is the incredible waste of resources and lives that are caused by making drugs illegal. All those deaths in Mexico, for example. The billions spent to incarcerate users. The thousands of police who could be doing other more productive work. The disease contracted by people prostituting themselves to buy drugs.

There was an experiment in Liverpool in the 90s. All drugs could be obtained by prescription if A) the person registered with the gov't. B) they attended a once-weekly narcotics anonymous meeting. The drugs were clean, cost the users $5 a month or some pittance, etc. The result: theft dropped by half, prostitution by 2/3s, etc. etc. It basically destroyed the illicit drug market in that city b/c no one could compete with the gov't on price. Why we can't have a sensible conversation about drug laws and illegality in this country is so frustrating. At least we're getting somewhere with the legalization of MJ in CO and WA.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
25. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:30 jdreyer
 
Verno wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 13:46:
InBlack wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 13:15:
It still makes no sense at all. How the fuck is anyone supposed to determine whether a drug has valid medical applications if research is banned on said drug??

Exactly, I'm not sure how repeating the class of the drug is answer to that either. There might or might not be valid uses of those drugs in psychiatry but we'll never know unless they're researched and trialed.

The reason marijuana is schedule 1 has nothing to do with it's potency or potential for abuse or lack of medical potential. It mostly has to do with racism: the practice of smoking it was initially introduced by hispanic farm workers, and spread to the black population. Thus it was portrayed as a drug that turned people of color into sex-crazed ax murderers. It's no coincidence that it was classified Sch 1 in the middle of the civil rights movement. It's still the case today that if you are a person of color you are 3 to 5 times more likely to be arrested for a drug offense than if you are white. This in spite of the fact that drug usage across races is pretty much even.

Edit: Also, too: What X7 said.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
24. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:24 Cutter
 
Hahaha, never gets old, Blue. Love it! I should order some checks just so I can do that in stores.

All natch drugs like weed, shrooms, peyote, et al. should be legal and everyone knows it. And while I agree with the hard shit like coke and smack being illegal - except for medical uses - I don't think they should be prison offenses either.


 
Avatar 25394
 
"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 15:09 Agent.X7
 
My commentary isn't directed at Bats at all. He's right, the system as written isn't hard to understand. It's the reasoning behind the system and the actual goal of the system that makes no sense.  
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 14:51 Jivaro
 
Am I the only one that read Batman's comments as "the system isn't that complicated if you read up on it" and "since you haven't read up on it here is the basics of how it works" instead of "here is how this perfect system that all of you willingly ignorant people should blindly believe is awesome because I say so" ?

I mean, I think the system sucks too. It technically makes sense in terms of what it was designed to do, it's just that what it's designed to do and why anyone thought that was necessary is highly questionable. I also think that aiming your frustration about that at Bats is highly questionable. He's right, it takes 5 minutes to read up on the system, it isn't complicated, and it makes sense. It doesn't say one thing and do another. The problem with it is the foundation on which it is built, not the structure. (okay, the structure is a tad questionable as well..lol)

edit: And for the love of the spaghetti monster..stop complaining about one country saying one thing and another saying something else. Medicine isn't binary code where something either "is" or "isn't". There are a lot of opinions and a lot of shades of grey to go with a lot of corporate money. Even in countries with socialized medicine that is the case.

This comment was edited on Jan 31, 2014, 14:59.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 14:32 Mashiki Amiketo
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 10:17:
If you research and fully understand the schedules, it makes perfect sense.
No it doesn't. And I've taken the same training, and it doesn't make any sense unless you're a lawyer...or have a political axe to grind. To compare: The medications that I take for my back which are a variety of muscle relaxants, pain killers, and anti-spasm drugs are all classed as SCI in the US. In Canada they're classed in SCIII.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 14:20 Agent.X7
 
And before anybody accuses me of being a user that wants drugs legalized so I can get them easier: I don't do drugs. I have severe anxiety about drugs, and even taking Advil is a last resort for me.

I simply believe in freedom and personal responsibility.
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 14:09 Agent.X7
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 13:15:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 12:24:
InBlack wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 10:53:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 10:17:
InBlack wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 10:07:
Holy fucking shit, you gotta be kidding me, so Marijuana, LSD and MDMA are Schedule I drugs. Cocaine, Opium, and Meth are Schedule II. Well now there you have it. I have to admit that I didnt know that, but it makes sense I guess in a twisted, paranoid, fucked up greedy way.

If you research and fully understand the schedules, it makes perfect sense.

Is that a nicer way of telling me that I'm ignorant?? Well since they teach you all that at cop school I guess, how bout explaining to me why there is a ban on research of Schedule I drugs, unlike the drugs listed under Schedule II??

http://www.rsdhope.org/schedule-or-classes-of-drugs.html

Most important part of that very short info is:
The main difference between a Schedule, or Class, 1 and 2 is whether or not the drug is deemed to have a valid medical application.

Don't need "cop school" to look it up and have very general knowledge about why one this is "ok" and one isn't. Now it should make perfect sense.

(cop school part: Those are federal schedules, but states just adopt the same schedules)

It still makes no sense at all. How the fuck is anyone supposed to determine whether a drug has valid medical applications if research is banned on said drug??

The schedules are really based on how much hate we had for the racial group using said drug at the time.

Marijuana, Heroin, and cocaine ALL have valid medical uses, despite what the feds would have you believe. In fact, doctors begged the government NOT to ban heroin (diamorphine), as it was a stronger painkiller than morphine per dose, and it takes less time to be effective. Being that one dose of heroin is equal to about 3 doses of morphine in effectiveness, chronic addiction takes longer to develop in patients.

But guess what? ALL of our early drug laws were based on racism, and those dirty Chinese used opium, so they had to be outlawed. The Harrison Act taxed and set licenses to sell opium, which they then basically refused to give to anyone. Our drug laws were deemed unconstitutional at one time, but just like every thing else the Fed wrangled them in under "interstate commerce" and basically told everyone to fuck off about it being illegal.

I did a ton of research on this the first time I was in college. If people understood just how much shit the Fed was doing that they really have absolutely no legal right to do...well, people are basically sheep and they'd probably do what they do now. Nothing.

Also, if you look it up, you will find that doctors in the UK can prescribe diamorphine still. So clearly - medical use.

 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 31, 2014, 14:01 jdreyer
 
gray wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 10:18:
Oddly written article. Not to take anything away from the Doctor but, six miles isn't very far to walk even in snow.

If you're out of shape, six miles in the snow is exhausting.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
57 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo