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Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released

EA's Battlelog announces the delayed "Mantle" renderer is now available for the Windows edition of Battlefield 4 for owners of AMD graphics cards, though for some reason this comes in advance of the new AMD beta drivers to enable support of the new API (when they're released they should show up on this page). They offer benchmarks to show the performance improvements seen running the military shooter sequel under Mantle, and the following explanation:

Mantle is a new low-level graphics API that weve been working very closely with AMD on over the last 2 years and it is a major change & improvement to how we are able to program & use modern GPUs in order to get the most out of them.

Battlefield 4 on PC is already quite heavily optimized using DirectX 11 and DirectX 11.1, but with Mantle we are able to go even further: weve significantly reduced CPU cost in our rendering, efficiently parallelized it over multiple CPU cores and reduced overhead in many areas.

The biggest performance gains can be seen when the game is bottlenecked by the CPU which can be quite common even on high-end machines and this was main goal to improve on with Mantle. Weve also been able to streamline and optimize some of the GPU workload. The end result is that game performance is improved in virtually all scenarios in Battlefield 4 on both Windows 7 and Windows 8 when running with Mantle!

This update is the first release of our new Mantle renderer, and we will continue to provide more tuning for different types of configurations in future updates. Still, we are really happy with the performance improvements that we are seeing with this update and we believe you will be as well.

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75 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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35. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 13:23 jacobvandy
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 13:05:
However, I imagine the actually gains will be less impressive than those mentioned.

Bingo. I'm assuming they do the same thing other publishers or AMD/NVIDIA themselves do, which is only report the most outstanding result of all their tests. Someone else nailed it on the head -- testing dual R9 290X GPUs at 1080p is not exactly a reasonable and representative configuration. Most people will probably be seeing the 15-25% increase shown in the other tests. And let's face it, the difference between 37 and 43 fps or 53 and 66 fps is virtually unnoticeable.
 
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34. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 13:08 UHD
 
1badmf wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 13:03:
yeah, let's keep moving those goal posts and try to bury the fact that your original statement was patently incorrect and biased. i don't know why i even bother with fools like you.

It isn't a dramatic increase, though. It's not even realistic. And you probably won't see those sorts of numbers in any situation you're not CPU-bound (examples: using an AMD CPU or Crossfire). The tests on that blog are not objective and meant to illustrate best-case scenarios. Real-world scenarios will come when AMD actually releases a driver with Mantle support AND independent review sites with resources release test results.
 
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33. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 13:05 theyarecomingforyou
 
jacobvandy wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:29:
These results are nowhere near the mind-blowing game-changer Mantle was hyped up to be. You're right in that the main reason high-end CF is seeing the largest boost is because they're finally able to get closer to twice the performance with twice the GPUs, thanks to these new optimizations. That's something NVIDIA was able to pull off with their architecture + drivers back when Fermi came out in the 400 series.
If the results mentioned earlier are representative of the performance gains, which remains to be seen, then they're completely in line with what I was expecting and will have a major impact upon the market. Suddenly an AMD card that was on par with an nVidia card is now considerably faster in supported games.

With that sort of performance I'd happily consider going back to AMD, especially now some of their longstanding issues have been addressed (multi-GPU frame spacing). However, I imagine the actually gains will be less impressive than those mentioned.

The game I'm most looking forward to is Star Citizen and it will include Mantle support, so that's a considerable influencing factor.
 
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32. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 13:03 1badmf
 
Shataan wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:50:
"58% isn't a dramatic increase? just from what's effectively a software tweak? ok fanboi, ok."

LOL Fan Boi am I? Hardly. The concensus is still not in. And until a heavy Majority is totally raving their azzes off, my statement still stands. Since it is open source, NVidia can and prolly would adopt it if it turns out to be all that and a bag of chips.

So I`ll wait and see. Heck, I still wanna grab a NVidia G-Sync Monitor when those arrive..... just to see if IT does what is intended.

Anyways, apparently someone adding mantle support is not enough. A driver has to be released to take advantage of that mantle support. I eagerly await the results from a much wider audience than this thread. Thx for playing!

yeah, let's keep moving those goal posts and try to bury the fact that your original statement was patently incorrect and biased. i don't know why i even bother with fools like you.
 
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31. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 13:01 PropheT
 
Frags4Fun wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:03:
My hope is that this will give Nvidia a reason to lower the cost of their cards. As it is, they're out of control with their prices.

If you go shopping for video cards right now Nvidia's are cheaper than AMD's since all the Radeons are being bought out for bitcoin mining. Even when they weren't the price differences weren't as significant as they had been in the past anyway.
 
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30. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:50 Shataan
 
"58% isn't a dramatic increase? just from what's effectively a software tweak? ok fanboi, ok."

LOL Fan Boi am I? Hardly. The concensus is still not in. And until a heavy Majority is totally raving their azzes off, my statement still stands. Since it is open source, NVidia can and prolly would adopt it if it turns out to be all that and a bag of chips.

So I`ll wait and see. Heck, I still wanna grab a NVidia G-Sync Monitor when those arrive..... just to see if IT does what is intended.

Anyways, apparently someone adding mantle support is not enough. A driver has to be released to take advantage of that mantle support. I eagerly await the results from a much wider audience than this thread. Thx for playing!
 
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29. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:41 SirKnight
 
1badmf wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:02:
Shataan wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:55:
Ya know, I don`t think the performance that mantle is supposedly adding is significant enough for me as a NVidia user to even care about. If it was dramatic, then yeah. But so far it isn`t looking to be dramatic.

58% isn't a dramatic increase? just from what's effectively a software tweak? ok fanboi, ok.


58% using $1300 worth of GPUs to run at 1080p? Who really does that? If someone has that much GPU, they're running MUCH higher resolutions because that's what that much GPU power is made for. This is nothing but hype BS.
 
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28. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:38 eRe4s3r
 
UHD wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:24:

More and more thinking Mantle is just AMD's solution to their poor CPU performance. Because making their CPUs better is expensive, but paying game developers to add a vendor-specific code path isn't.

And this is exactly why I think that the answer to this is going to come from Intel, MS and Nvidia together... maybe as soon as Windows 9.
 
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27. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:29 jacobvandy
 
Frags4Fun wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:03:
I have to assume that if Mantle really does improve performance so drastically, that Nvidia will have no choice but to add support for it to their cards or else risk having a mass exodus of people moving to AMD cards. The alternative is to create their own version of Mantle which seems silly to me. I don't expect corporations to do what seems logical to it's user base though.

I would certainly dump my Nvidia cards for AMD if they perform 40% better than they currently do while costing less. Seems like a no-brainer. I dumped Nvidia back when BF 1942 was still thriving because the ATI cards were superior (ATI 9700 Pro).

My hope is that this will give Nvidia a reason to lower the cost of their cards. As it is, they're out of control with their prices.

I've often wondered if card manufacturers are actually holding back performance in order to squeeze out more sales. It's certainly a possibility.

There's no reason to ditch anything if only a few games ever use Mantle. Without NVIDIA support a lot of devs just won't bother with it.

UHD wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:24:
Interesting that the most impressive gains were in the configuration that needed it the least: the $800 CPU paired with two high-end Radeons. That doesn't impress me as much as it's supposed to, I think.

Also reading that the reason for the 58% gain in the high-end system is because CrossFire is inefficient and the CPU can't feed the two GPUs fast enough. Wonder if that's the case with nVidia and SLI. Also, do the low-end improvements carry over to Intel CPUs? Try an Ivy or Sandy i3 or i5 with that Radeon 7970 and see if you get the same 14-25% improvements. I'm betting you don't.

More and more thinking Mantle is just AMD's solution to their poor CPU performance. Because making their CPUs better is expensive, but paying game developers to add a vendor-specific code path isn't.

But that's all just conjecture until someone independent of EA and AMD can perform their own testing.

These results are nowhere near the mind-blowing game-changer Mantle was hyped up to be. You're right in that the main reason high-end CF is seeing the largest boost is because they're finally able to get closer to twice the performance with twice the GPUs, thanks to these new optimizations. That's something NVIDIA was able to pull off with their architecture + drivers back when Fermi came out in the 400 series.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2014, 12:38.
 
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26. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:24 UHD
 
Interesting that the most impressive gains were in the configuration that needed it the least: the $800 CPU paired with two high-end Radeons. That doesn't impress me as much as it's supposed to, I think.

Also reading that the reason for the 58% gain in the high-end system is because CrossFire is inefficient and the CPU can't feed the two GPUs fast enough. Wonder if that's the case with nVidia and SLI. Also, do the low-end improvements carry over to Intel CPUs? Try an Ivy or Sandy i3 or i5 with that Radeon 7970 and see if you get the same 14-25% improvements. I'm betting you don't.

More and more thinking Mantle is just AMD's solution to their poor CPU performance. Because making their CPUs better is expensive, but paying game developers to add a vendor-specific code path isn't.

But that's all just conjecture until someone independent of EA and AMD can perform their own testing.
 
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25. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 12:03 Frags4Fun
 
I have to assume that if Mantle really does improve performance so drastically, that Nvidia will have no choice but to add support for it to their cards or else risk having a mass exodus of people moving to AMD cards. The alternative is to create their own version of Mantle which seems silly to me. I don't expect corporations to do what seems logical to it's user base though.

I would certainly dump my Nvidia cards for AMD if they perform 40% better than they currently do while costing less. Seems like a no-brainer. I dumped Nvidia back when BF 1942 was still thriving because the ATI cards were superior (ATI 9700 Pro).

My hope is that this will give Nvidia a reason to lower the cost of their cards. As it is, they're out of control with their prices.

I've often wondered if card manufacturers are actually holding back performance in order to squeeze out more sales. It's certainly a possibility.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2014, 12:10.
 
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24. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:41 Panickd
 
Quboid wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:22:
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:04:
What most come here wanting to see:

1: Low-end single-player
...
14% faster

2: 64-player multi-player
...
25.1% faster


3: Multi-GPU single-player
...
58% faster

Not bad, lol to where the numbers really look good they put in an Intel Processor, sure Crossfire to, but still lol. Will be interesting to see what a $300 Intel quad will do, aka what more of us have.


It will be nice when publications that do a better job, pump out some benches.

That's very impressive if these are truly representative, especially on high end systems. I saw no reason to believe their performance increases were any better than driver updates talking about huge boosts. We'll see.

I wasn't aware of any reason to expect this to be compatible with Nvidia hardware. If this is effective I'm sure they'll work on something if they're not already. It would be nice if it's compatible but a period of fragmentation is a price worth paying for some innovation.

Do next/current/whatever gen consoles use anything like this, or could they through software/firmware upgrades?

Mantle was developed to be hardware agnostic so theoretically Nvidia could release drivers that could make use of it. Though given their track record I would expect them to come up with some Nvidia-specific Mantle knock off and tout it as superior in every way.

And yes Mantle can be used with the PS4 and XBox One and it's probably already being used for some games. Part of the reason AMD developed Mantle was to give their APUs a little bit more headroom in performance and the APU is what Sony and Microsoft chose to build their consoles around. I think it'll be a boon to cross platform developers too. Much easier to move your PC game to console with Mantle and vice versa.
 
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23. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:37 Drayth
 
According to Rage3D there's a twitter post stating the beta driver will arrive tomorrow (Friday).  
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22. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:36 Creston
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:04:
... Not bad

NOT BAD?? I'd call that pretty damn amazing.
 
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21. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:35 1badmf
 
the idea i've been getting is that mantle isn't something that's hardware specific like glide was. this is supposed to be hardware agnostic so that in theory anyone could build hardware for it like they do with D3D. in essence it's supposed to be a superior competitor to D3D that anyone can implement for. it's just up to hardware vendors to make hardware compatible with it.

i think i read that xbone and ps4 are compatible seeing as they both run the latest AMD GPU hardware.
 
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20. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:32 Drayth
 
Mantle runs on the consoles too (since they're AMD chips). It's supposed to help with cross platform development. When / where it will show up on console games, I have no idea. I imagine Thief will use it..?
 
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19. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:22 Quboid
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:04:
What most come here wanting to see:

1: Low-end single-player
...
14% faster

2: 64-player multi-player
...
25.1% faster


3: Multi-GPU single-player
...
58% faster

Not bad, lol to where the numbers really look good they put in an Intel Processor, sure Crossfire to, but still lol. Will be interesting to see what a $300 Intel quad will do, aka what more of us have.


It will be nice when publications that do a better job, pump out some benches.

That's very impressive if these are truly representative, especially on high end systems. I saw no reason to believe their performance increases were any better than driver updates talking about huge boosts. We'll see.

I wasn't aware of any reason to expect this to be compatible with Nvidia hardware. If this is effective I'm sure they'll work on something if they're not already. It would be nice if it's compatible but a period of fragmentation is a price worth paying for some innovation.

Do next/current/whatever gen consoles use anything like this, or could they through software/firmware upgrades?
 
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- Quboid
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18. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:17 eRe4s3r
 
harlock wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:12:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:04:
InBlack wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:48:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:32:
So where is that promised cross vendor compatibility again? You'd think for such a big release as a BF4 render update where 70%+ have Nvidia cards this would be mentioned somewhere....

Thats up to Nvidia to implement. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

The thing is I haven't read anything about that aside from AMD's promises that they will "make it open" but nowhere anywhere does it say what the heck that's even supposed to mean. And NVIDIA hasn't said a word about this either... so yeah... silence usually means that nothing is gonna happen ;/

why are you even expecting amd and nvidia to get together and sing kumbaya in the first place?

come on man

Hey Hope dies last... always, every time. I have this weird belief that both companies would not want to cause shit-storms willy nilly.....
 
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17. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:12 harlock
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:04:
InBlack wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:48:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:32:
So where is that promised cross vendor compatibility again? You'd think for such a big release as a BF4 render update where 70%+ have Nvidia cards this would be mentioned somewhere....

Thats up to Nvidia to implement. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

The thing is I haven't read anything about that aside from AMD's promises that they will "make it open" but nowhere anywhere does it say what the heck that's even supposed to mean. And NVIDIA hasn't said a word about this either... so yeah... silence usually means that nothing is gonna happen ;/

why are you even expecting amd and nvidia to get together and sing kumbaya in the first place?

come on man
 
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16. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 11:04 eRe4s3r
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:48:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:32:
So where is that promised cross vendor compatibility again? You'd think for such a big release as a BF4 render update where 70%+ have Nvidia cards this would be mentioned somewhere....

Thats up to Nvidia to implement. Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

The thing is I haven't read anything about that aside from AMD's promises that they will "make it open" but nowhere anywhere does it say what the heck that's even supposed to mean. And NVIDIA hasn't said a word about this either... so yeah... silence usually means that nothing is gonna happen ;/
 
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