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Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released

EA's Battlelog announces the delayed "Mantle" renderer is now available for the Windows edition of Battlefield 4 for owners of AMD graphics cards, though for some reason this comes in advance of the new AMD beta drivers to enable support of the new API (when they're released they should show up on this page). They offer benchmarks to show the performance improvements seen running the military shooter sequel under Mantle, and the following explanation:

Mantle is a new low-level graphics API that weve been working very closely with AMD on over the last 2 years and it is a major change & improvement to how we are able to program & use modern GPUs in order to get the most out of them.

Battlefield 4 on PC is already quite heavily optimized using DirectX 11 and DirectX 11.1, but with Mantle we are able to go even further: weve significantly reduced CPU cost in our rendering, efficiently parallelized it over multiple CPU cores and reduced overhead in many areas.

The biggest performance gains can be seen when the game is bottlenecked by the CPU which can be quite common even on high-end machines and this was main goal to improve on with Mantle. Weve also been able to streamline and optimize some of the GPU workload. The end result is that game performance is improved in virtually all scenarios in Battlefield 4 on both Windows 7 and Windows 8 when running with Mantle!

This update is the first release of our new Mantle renderer, and we will continue to provide more tuning for different types of configurations in future updates. Still, we are really happy with the performance improvements that we are seeing with this update and we believe you will be as well.

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75 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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75. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Feb 2, 2014, 17:17 ChaosEngine
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:28:
Dude, one more time: EA has purportedly received US$ 8 million from AMD for implementing Mantle support. They did not do this because they thought it would be cool to do or because they care about gamers. They did this for the $$$.

Utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter why EA did it, it matters that all future EA games will have Mantle support. Unless you're going to argue that EA games are a tiny piece of the market? Regardless of how you feel about EA (not a fan, myself) the fact is that they produce a big percentage of the most commercially successful games out there.

CJ_Parker wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:28:
We all know how much the big publishers care for and love their PC ports, right? What makes you think that anyone -without being handed similar bribes- will voluntarily support Mantle? That won't happen. What might happen is that MS and Sony will specifically start bribing devs to NOT support Mantle on the PC version as they already do when it comes to keeping the quality of PC ports on the lower end of the spectrum.

Did you not understand the bit about AMD chips being in both the XB One and PS4? I don't know if you have any business experience, but as a rule companies do not generally bribe people to make their own products look worse. The quality of PC ports simply isn't relevant to the discussion.

AMD are clearly going to push Mantle onto the consoles (they've already said as much).

CJ_Parker wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:28:
Mantle is going to be a total niche that will only be supported by games where AMD coughed up a bribe (like BF4) or by indie/KS developers who want to support Mantle to attract some extra attention to their games.

So, once again... your "tiny niche" includes every new EA game, Star Citizen and probably Thief. Yeah, there's no money there at all. Rolleyes

I don't know if Mantle is the real deal or not. If it really does work like AMD are saying, given that devs are already struggling with the limitations of the new consoles, explain why you wouldn't implement something that gives you performance improvements on most of your target platforms.
 
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74. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 21:24 Redmask
 
That post made no sense at all.  
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73. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 16:05 Slick
 
It is really astounding the quality of naysayers here. from "%58 increase is garbage, who cares?" to "this is obviously a giant dumb money-sink for AMD, no other games will support it, it's already a huge fail".

make me lol though, gotta say.

other than that a lot of really well thought-out ideas in this thread, i'm proud of you BN forum. And for the record:

Nvidia with first 3D support = good
AMD with first multi-monitor support = good
Nvidia with G-Sync = good
AMD with great GPGPU support (scrypt mining) = good
Nvidia with Shadowplay = good
AMD with mantle = good

tried of all the fanboy shit, get over yourselves, and enjoy this new latest and greatest advance in technology so we can rub chee-tos all over our bare chests while playing battlefield, us undeserving fucks.
 
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You've been slicked. Wash up. -nin
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72. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 12:05 Tim Collins
 
Mantle + overpriced AMD gpus right now = wash


Maxwell + ARM CPU = WIN

I can't upgrade to AMD even if I wanted to cause the prices are way too high.

This comment was edited on Jan 31, 2014, 12:43.
 
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71. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 10:07 UHD
 
About the only time I've seen AMD CPUs really excel at something is when the test manages to hit every core, and then only if it's heavily integer-based. That shared FPU hurts in a lot of cases, especially gaming. It might be a forward-thinking design but virtually nobody buys a CPU to make tomorrow faster.

And yeah, forgot about power consumption. Overclocking an FX CPU is scary; they draw frightening amounts of power at high frequencies. I think they scale well with frequency though. It's the Pentium 4 problem.

APUs are slick if you like small form-factor PCs - and I do. Hopefully AMD sticks around long enough to flesh it out more.

HorrorScope wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 00:40:
Hey maybe the Bone can do 60 FPS and 1080P with Mantle, probably not though.

Yeah I doubt it. I don't think the DirectX in the XBone is the same one we know and love from the PC. Same feature set as DX11 (or whatever), but tailored to the machine, so Mantle isn't necessary. I don't actually know that though, I've never done console development, but it makes sense.
 
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70. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 09:13 Verno
 
WaltC wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 08:04:
As for straight cpus, AMD cpus easily (FX 6xxx and 8xxx, specifically) keep up with with i3's and i5's--no problem, and often out-perform them, while costing about the same, if not less. So, is it your contention that Intel sells no i3's and i5's and that there is no market there? (I doubt you've even thought about the subject that deeply.)

I don't know about that, most of the benches I've looked at show the FX series behind the i3 and i5s at their respective price points, not to mention consuming more power. The FPS deltas seem to show up even in lower end framerate range too. There might be an argument to be made about good enough if AMD were significantly cheaper but they often aren't. I love their APU stuff though.
 
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Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Walking Dead, The Fall, As Above So Below
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69. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 08:04 WaltC
 
JSP wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 14:51:


Mmmhmm, now let's hear from developers who AREN'T being paid by AMD to implement it. And you're trying to put words in HardOCP's mouth by taking that out of context -- it doesn't change the results of the tests. That's how CPU tests are done, by minimizing the graphics-related variables as much as possible. AMD CPUs are simply slower than Intel's, it's a fact. Not just in gaming, but all applications; at best they come within spitting distance at video conversion, but everything else is no contest.

AMD themselves know and publicly state that their intent is not to be competing with Intel on the high end of desktop processors, because they simply cannot. They would bankrupt themselves in trying right now. But I guess since that part of the article (basically the entire Conclusion) doesn't serve you and your frail argument, you just ignore it...

Mmmhmm, yea, let's *hear* from the developers who are being paid, first, shall we? Oh, there aren't any? Oh, and they always specifically state in public that AMD is *not* paying them to implement Mantle? Oh, I get it--you've got cotton in your ears or else your reading comprehension isn't so good...;) Or, maybe you think these developers are lying through their teeth? Is that it? Maybe you'd like to talk about which ones are lying...?

Speaking of performance, AMD's IGP's (that's a cpu with an integrated gpu, in case you didn't know) blow Intel's out of the water (this has been true for years) and nVidia makes nothing competitive, either.

As for straight cpus, AMD cpus easily (FX 6xxx and 8xxx, specifically) keep up with with i3's and i5's--no problem, and often out-perform them, while costing about the same, if not less. So, is it your contention that Intel sells no i3's and i5's and that there is no market there? (I doubt you've even thought about the subject that deeply.)

The *only* place where AMD isn't performance competitive is in the top-tier i7 Intel cpu category--you know, the consumer cpus costing $300 and up? (Intel cpus specifically made for people who can't enjoy a game running an AMD cpu at 130fps because they've been brainwashed by propaganda telling them they can't enjoy a game unless they can also run a benchmark telling them they are running that game at 150 fps--on their 30% more expensive Intel cpu. Lol...;) Intel can see these folks coming a mile away--they've got giant "SUCKER" targets painted on their backs.)

And to top it all off, we aren't talking about the fact that in the discrete 3d-card market, Intel doesn't even place and is not in the running, leaving nVidia as AMD's only competitor in that market space.

Your anti-AMD argument is no argument at all, just a load of half-baked Internet flotsam, but I think you already know that.
 
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68. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 07:16 Redmask
 
JSP wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 00:50:
I KNOW that AMD is not as good as Intel when it comes to gaming, but demonstrably worse? Tell me how much of a difference when GPU is involved the difference will be, certainly smaller than it warrant all the pile of shit that AMD gets all the time when most of the titles released recently do not reflect it

Witcher 2
Battlefield 4
Enjoy your 20+ fps on Crysis 2 on your Vsynced monitor

The thing is, when new technology rolls around that may give more gamers performance that they deserve for their dollar, a solution that could harness the latest tech to provide better experience, the ugly partisan bickering unequivocally rears its ugly head once again, all ready and willing to smother the baby in the crib and throw the lifeless carcass with bathwater. Even with the interesting and new ways of improving this stupid hobby of ours there are always those firmly rooted in the negatives, not applauding their attempts to make better use of the resources and encouraging the process, but blinded by their irrational hatred of the OTHER SIDE, are instead firmly entrenched against anything and everything related to their attempts to differentiate PC gaming from the consoles, where an APU can now glean enough performance to make the latest and greatest playable by more people. This is all really fucked up. IS THAT YOUR 8 MILLION DOLLARS THAT AMD SPENT ON EA? FOR FUCK'S SAKE

The thing is that Mantle feels more like an AMD solution to prop up their crappy processors than anything else, particularly when you dig into the benchmarks and see where the improved framerates come into play and at what constraints.
 
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67. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 05:29 InBlack
 
JSP wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 00:50:
I KNOW that AMD is not as good as Intel when it comes to gaming, but demonstrably worse? Tell me how much of a difference when GPU is involved the difference will be, certainly smaller than it warrant all the pile of shit that AMD gets all the time when most of the titles released recently do not reflect it

Witcher 2
Battlefield 4
Enjoy your 20+ fps on Crysis 2 on your Vsynced monitor

The thing is, when new technology rolls around that may give more gamers performance that they deserve for their dollar, a solution that could harness the latest tech to provide better experience, the ugly partisan bickering unequivocally rears its ugly head once again, all ready and willing to smother the baby in the crib and throw the lifeless carcass with bathwater. Even with the interesting and new ways of improving this stupid hobby of ours there are always those firmly rooted in the negatives, not applauding their attempts to make better use of the resources and encouraging the process, but blinded by their irrational hatred of the OTHER SIDE, are instead firmly entrenched against anything and everything related to their attempts to differentiate PC gaming from the consoles, where an APU can now glean enough performance to make the latest and greatest playable by more people. This is all really fucked up. IS THAT YOUR 8 MILLION DOLLARS THAT AMD SPENT ON EA? FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Woah there daddy-oh! Hold your horses will ya, whats with all the rant? People like to talk smack thats all it is. As for AMD and Nvidia they are natural rivals, they are fighting for a market share of the same market. Its not personal, its about making money. So a lot of people are very doubtful that Nvidia will adopt an API made by their main (and only real) rival.

As for myself I recently upgraded to an Nvidia GTX760 4GB and Im quite happy with its performance. Im no fanboy though, if Mantle delivers and there are a lot of takers Ill switch to AMD in a year or two. Just about enough time for the technology to mature, or fail. A wait and see approach is actually the best thing to do here.

 
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66. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 03:14 eRe4s3r
 
TheEmissary wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 01:56:
Did it ever occur to you that some people game on 120 or 144hz monitors.

Most modern at least the highly threaded ones respond more to the number of cores than the core frequency. Games like BF3 and BF4 are examples of this, with at most 5 fps apart when using the same GPU.

Its really too early to call this as we have no idea what Nvidia response to Mantle is going to be. The rumor mill suggests that the next Nvidia GPUs (Maxwell) are going to have an ARM co-processor to offload tasks from the main processor. If the rumors are true then both companies have been focused on eliminating the CPU bottleneck when using their GPUs.

Its going to be an interesting 18months to see where this ultimately settles at. My early guess is that depending on performance this could cause a price war between the two GPU companies. This all depends on how many Mantle games are announced and get released in that window as well.

This rumor is why I hold back upgrading at the moment...
 
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65. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 01:56 TheEmissary
 
Did it ever occur to you that some people game on 120 or 144hz monitors.

Most modern at least the highly threaded ones respond more to the number of cores than the core frequency. Games like BF3 and BF4 are examples of this, with at most 5 fps apart when using the same GPU.

Its really too early to call this as we have no idea what Nvidia response to Mantle is going to be. The rumor mill suggests that the next Nvidia GPUs (Maxwell) are going to have an ARM co-processor to offload tasks from the main processor. If the rumors are true then both companies have been focused on eliminating the CPU bottleneck when using their GPUs.

Its going to be an interesting 18months to see where this ultimately settles at. My early guess is that depending on performance this could cause a price war between the two GPU companies. This all depends on how many Mantle games are announced and get released in that window as well.
 
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64. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 00:50 JSP
 
I KNOW that AMD is not as good as Intel when it comes to gaming, but demonstrably worse? Tell me how much of a difference when GPU is involved the difference will be, certainly smaller than it warrant all the pile of shit that AMD gets all the time when most of the titles released recently do not reflect it

Witcher 2
Battlefield 4
Enjoy your 20+ fps on Crysis 2 on your Vsynced monitor

The thing is, when new technology rolls around that may give more gamers performance that they deserve for their dollar, a solution that could harness the latest tech to provide better experience, the ugly partisan bickering unequivocally rears its ugly head once again, all ready and willing to smother the baby in the crib and throw the lifeless carcass with bathwater. Even with the interesting and new ways of improving this stupid hobby of ours there are always those firmly rooted in the negatives, not applauding their attempts to make better use of the resources and encouraging the process, but blinded by their irrational hatred of the OTHER SIDE, are instead firmly entrenched against anything and everything related to their attempts to differentiate PC gaming from the consoles, where an APU can now glean enough performance to make the latest and greatest playable by more people. This is all really fucked up. IS THAT YOUR 8 MILLION DOLLARS THAT AMD SPENT ON EA? FOR FUCK'S SAKE
 
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63. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 00:40 HorrorScope
 
I wouldn't put bribes past MS towards poor pc support.

Hey maybe the Bone can do 60 FPS and 1080P with Mantle, probably not though.
 
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62. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 00:33 HorrorScope
 
UHD wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 12:24:
Interesting that the most impressive gains were in the configuration that needed it the least: the $800 CPU paired with two high-end Radeons. That doesn't impress me as much as it's supposed to, I think.

That is why it will be interesting when we get independent benches with more common hardware.
 
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61. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 31, 2014, 00:31 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 11:36:
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 10:04:
... Not bad

NOT BAD?? I'd call that pretty damn amazing.

Remember when Pullman said not bad to Goldblum after saving the planet? Goldblum probably should have stopped him and said "Not Bad? Pretty fucking amazing if you as me!". Lol, it's a good not bad.
 
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60. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 21:01 eRe4s3r
 
Slinkycatz wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 18:45:
This is what makes the idea of an API other than DirectX sound appealing.

Yeah, it's called OpenGL
 
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59. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 18:45 Slinkycatz
 
So Microsoft is in a rush to release Windows 9.

Color me unsurprised if they release another version of DirectX that is unavailable to those unfortunate enough to have upgraded to Windows 8.

This is what makes the idea of an API other than DirectX sound appealing.
 
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58. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 17:42 Frags4Fun
 
DangerDog wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:27:
Frags4Fun wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 15:43:
DangerDog wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 15:25:
Newsflash, DICE broke more shit than they fixed with this "patch".

I know, shocking right?

Wonderful. I was hoping to play a little tonight. Figures.

Some of it isn't game breaking some of it is, spawning on your squadmate in a tank will crash your game apparently.

Well, thanks for the warning. I'll try to avoid that if I can.
 
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57. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 17:25 ChandlerL
 
Draugr wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:22:
CJ_Parker wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 13:44:
Except for all of EA's games that use frostbite 3, it's the engine that has had mantle support into it, not just BF4. That alone will be more than a handful.

I was thinking the same thing. In addition to that, it's important to understand that both consoles support Mantle as well. Whether developers capitalize on that is the question. Perhaps as the platforms mature and they're looking to push the consoles further they will. If they do, then it stands to reason that, at least, cross platform titles may have Mantle support on desktops.

We shall see.

Personally, though I'm a current nVidia user across all my gaming desktops, I have used AMD and am essentially for whatever gets me the best performance to value result.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2014, 17:33.
 
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56. Re: Battlefield 4 Mantle Update Released Jan 30, 2014, 17:07 UHD
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jan 30, 2014, 16:28:
We all know how much the big publishers care for and love their PC ports, right? What makes you think that anyone -without being handed similar bribes- will voluntarily support Mantle? That won't happen. What might happen is that MS and Sony will specifically start bribing devs to NOT support Mantle on the PC version as they already do when it comes to keeping the quality of PC ports on the lower end of the spectrum.

That's the first I've heard of bribes to keep PC port quality low. I figured it was more organic/lazy, like how XP and the 360/PS3 only supported DX9 and therefore targeting DX9-era hardware made the port easier.

I don't think Microsoft or Sony will be openly hostile to Mantle. Both companies have already stated they do not and will not support it on their respective consoles. That's all they really need to do. It'll still be closer to console development than DirectX/OpenGL, but since your supported platforms can't realistically be only PS4/XBone/Mantle, it's sort of moot.

Mantle is going to be a total niche that will only be supported by games where AMD coughed up a bribe (like BF4) or by indie/KS developers who want to support Mantle to attract some extra attention to their games.

Pretty much. It's like Linux ports: there's no money there, and it's not done out of charity so much as a technical exercise or as a labor of love. A Mantle port is unlikely to be either.
 
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