Then we both have a different definition of a game being on rails (maybe "on rails" is a wrong choice of words, but what I mean to say is perfectly clear so let's not get stuck on semantics). To me, THIEF is on rails because there's no question/"illusion" whatsoever that you can only do what the devs tell you to. Sure, the devs give you multiple choices, but you cannot -- in any way! -- solve an obstacle in such a way the devs would be like "What the hell? Even we didn't think of that!". Have you played DX:HR with the dev commentary? I have. From start to finish. Apparantly there were allot of moments where the devs were saying almost exactly that.
Jerykk wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 04:01:Out of curiousity: Why? Why do you prefer it?
Because I like having more control over my character. However, I can recognize when that control (or lack thereof) has a meaningful impact on gameplay. If the traversal system is as flexible as the previews seem to suggest, the lack of manual jumping will not have a significant impact on the new Thief. It will not mean you are "on rails," as that's a matter of level design, not controls. As far as I can tell, the levels are open-ended which is the exact opposite of "on rails."
Out of curiousity: Why? Why do you prefer it?
The truth is, other people have different opinions of what they expect in a quality PC game, and they don't necessarily jibe with yours. When we voice those ideas, it seems impossible for you accept that they are anything but "minor nitpicks", "absurd conclusions", and "faulty logic", and you feel the need to weigh in with a "correct" perspective.
I'd also prefer manual jumping ...
Jerykk wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 17:29:
Also, I'm fine with people criticizing games before release, as long as those criticisms are based on fact and logic. Unfortunately, the people declaring that the game will be a consolized piece of crap aren't doing that. They take the most minor of nitpicks and blow them out of proportion or they come to absurd conclusions based on faulty logic.
Ray Marden wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 07:37:
Jerykk,
Eurogamer is not the only outlet to talk about noteworthy shortcomings or outright negative things about this game. Rev 3 Games, Weekend Confirmed, Giant Bombcast, IGN podcasts, EpicBattleAxe, etc.
Prior to making my earlier post, I did watch the Eurogamer video and it seemed to confirm the items I was concerned with or letdown by. However, I just watched the Games.on.net video and it brings up some shortcomings of the game as well - Erin being the first contender for the most irritating character of the year (again, the removal of Russell was unwarranted given the poor end quality of the abundant, gameplay-stopping cinematics,) the restriction on jumping and climbable surfaces giving them the impression of a more jigsaw-like game than an open-world game, the game being ugly in quite a few areas, particularly the non-PC platforms, and noting the removal of the XP and quicktime systems (overall improvements, but raising many concerns about the original design intent and the impact that intent will have on the final product.)
As ever, you fall back on challenge. In that regards, you hopefully concede that you are different than many gamers...or let me say that I approach games from a different perspective. Time and time and time again, I have seen you comment on the challenge of a game above all else. Absolutely, I believe it can help shape one's impression of a game (too easy, too hard, can make actions boring, can build a sense of accomplishments, creates a challenge, etc.,) but I often view it as just one piece of the puzzle along with sound design, level design, gameplay mechanics, puzzles, exploration, story, new experience factor, improvement upon prior iterations, etc.
Look, I bough the game yesterday from GMG for $31.50. It's sufficiently Thief-like for my preferences, stealth games are few and far between, this is one of only two games releasing in February I have any interest in, the price was right for all these things, the more recent previews have spoken to a higher level of design quality than earlier previews, etc. But I'll be damned if I cannot already see a number of things that I would love to change or am immediately concerned about.
I think, or at least hope, that's the big difference here. I now effectively own the game, but I want it to be better and think it could have done a lot more given the pedigree of the series and the improvements in both design and technology over the past decade. You and others seem to like this a lot more than others. That's honestly great. However, a seeming belief that the game is amazing or good enough and there shouldn't be any other comments about shortcomings or aspirations for a greater game is something I find particularly saddening. In my book, being blind to shortcomings or halting acknowledgment of them is a race to mediocrity.
Personal preference =/= quality =/= purchase.
Able to like flawed games; able to critique amazing games,
Ray
Cram wrote on Jan 25, 2014, 20:45:
@ Jerykk Still supporting and agreeing with your opinions. Not much else I can care to say or do for the neg nancy's.
Eurogamers vid was polar opposite of everyone else's. It's curious. We will see, and only see when the game is released. Until then.
Quboid wrote on Jan 25, 2014, 18:46:
A fail state is not a good way to handle being detected, or for knocking out an enemy IMHO. I want in-game consequences, a tough fight or a chase. I don't know what Thief has but if it is a choice between an easy fight with no further enemy reaction or a "Game Over" screen, then that's a problem.
This is better than I expected, given the garbage they were trying to sell us on (prior to trying to roll a lot of it back at the last moment,) but it's not what I was hoping for. Small, linear, missing atmosphere, limited exploration, minimalizing the punishment for being caught, making the search for loot mundane, scaling back the mystical elements, the jarring swoop for numerous actions, abundant cinematics of lackluster impact(meaning removing Russell was unwarranted,) a design focused around making core gameplay easier, light story, etc.
Squirmer wrote on Jan 25, 2014, 06:44:I thought that as well. It'll get pretty annoying, very quickly
Does the camera really perform that nauseating swoop every time you interact with something?