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Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking

Oculus Rift unveiled a new "Crystal Cove" unit at CES today, with the new version of their Oculus VR headset sporting an upgraded OLED display and newly added positional tracking. There are details on this on Polygon, where they learned that these changes will not greatly increase the cost of the units. "Cost has always been at the crux of the entire Oculus platform, if the hardware is not affordable, it might as well not exist," Nate Mitchell of Oculus told them. "We made sure this is a low-cost solution without sacrificing any quality. This is a top-notch positional tracking system." They have some info on both changes, saying OLED panel has an unusually high refresh rate and the ability to fire an individual pixel "for a fraction of a millisecond and then turning it off and then going black until the next pulse." They also discuss what the positional tracking adds:

One of the demos shown at CES will feature the player sitting across from a fantasy character in Unreal Engine 4, with a table that features a tower defense game resting between you. Positional tracking will allow the player to lean forward and study the board and details of the units. The extra three degrees of movements would also allow players to lean out a virtual window, for instance, in order to look around while still keeping their body in cover.

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62 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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62. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 9, 2014, 04:15 InBlack
 
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 17:21:
Quboid wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 15:59:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 14:09:
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in?
Yes, if you don't want the image to smear as you're moving. And it will most likely be 90fps.

See how blurry this moving image is?
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0
On a low persistence display, this image is just as sharp when it is moving as it it when it is still. That means you'll get a double image whenever you miss a frame.

That's refresh rate, not frame rate. If the display could output at 240hz but was only getting 60 FPS, it could repeat each frame 4 times. That's not perfect, but it wouldn't look blurry.

...

I think? I'm not 100% sure so this is more of a question than a disagreement.
When your eye is tracking an image moving at 960 pixels/second, and the screen displays each frame for 16.7ms, the motion of your eyes adds 16 pixels of blur. With a low-persistence display, each frame is only shown for something like 1ms, and there is darkness until the next refresh. In this case, your eyes only add 1 pixel of motion blur. If the same image is shown twice on a low persistence display because of a low framerate, you'll get a double image. On a full-persistence display, you just get a longer blur.

Blur is caused by the duration that each frame is shown, not the refresh rate.

Here's a really good blog about it from Michael Abrash:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/

Please correct me if Im wrong but isnt the duration that each frame is shown = to the refresh rate?? I.E. a 60 Hz screen updates the screen sixty times per second. A 120Hz screen updates the screen 120 times per second. etc. etc.

I just read the blog and because the zero persistance displays only show pixels at 2 ms or less (like old CRT monitors) which is why blur or smearing or judder is reduced to low levels at reasonable refresh rates.

This comment was edited on Jan 9, 2014, 04:24.
 
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61. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 23:03 HorrorScope
 
nin wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 21:27:
Ever look into a view master?

Not for a half hour at a time, no.


I have. No difference.
 
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60. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 21:27 nin
 
Ever look into a view master?

Not for a half hour at a time, no.

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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59. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 19:11 HorrorScope
 
JoeNapalm wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 10:45:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:34:
DangerDog wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:11:
From what I've read you get vision fatigue from focusing on the screen so close to your eyes, removing the rift can take quite a while to recover normal vision.
You're focusing at infinity, so it doesn't matter how physically close the screen is to your eyes. There can be an issue if you're constantly looking at things that are close to you in the simulated environment, though.


This is the arguement Oculus makes, but I'm not buying it.

Your eyes are focusing on something right in front of your face. Whether that image represents infinity or duckies or bunnies or what not is up to your brain to interpret - it is not going to prevent eye strain to the physical parts of your eye that are focusing on the screen 4" from your eyeball.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Ever look into a view master? I don't recall the strain. We'll see. We all have our list of things this things needs to pass. Probably the reason it isn't being rushed. One shot to do this right.
 
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58. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 17:21 Jensen
 
Quboid wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 15:59:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 14:09:
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in?
Yes, if you don't want the image to smear as you're moving. And it will most likely be 90fps.

See how blurry this moving image is?
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0
On a low persistence display, this image is just as sharp when it is moving as it it when it is still. That means you'll get a double image whenever you miss a frame.

That's refresh rate, not frame rate. If the display could output at 240hz but was only getting 60 FPS, it could repeat each frame 4 times. That's not perfect, but it wouldn't look blurry.

...

I think? I'm not 100% sure so this is more of a question than a disagreement.
When your eye is tracking an image moving at 960 pixels/second, and the screen displays each frame for 16.7ms, the motion of your eyes adds 16 pixels of blur. With a low-persistence display, each frame is only shown for something like 1ms, and there is darkness until the next refresh. In this case, your eyes only add 1 pixel of motion blur. If the same image is shown twice on a low persistence display because of a low framerate, you'll get a double image. On a full-persistence display, you just get a longer blur.

Blur is caused by the duration that each frame is shown, not the refresh rate.

Here's a really good blog about it from Michael Abrash:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/

This comment was edited on Jan 8, 2014, 17:27.
 
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57. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 15:59 Quboid
 
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 14:09:
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in?
Yes, if you don't want the image to smear as you're moving. And it will most likely be 90fps.

See how blurry this moving image is?
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0
On a low persistence display, this image is just as sharp when it is moving as it it when it is still. That means you'll get a double image whenever you miss a frame.

That's refresh rate, not frame rate. If the display could output at 240hz but was only getting 60 FPS, it could repeat each frame 4 times. That's not perfect, but it wouldn't look blurry.

...

I think? I'm not 100% sure so this is more of a question than a disagreement.
 
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- Quboid
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56. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 14:09 Jensen
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in?
Yes, if you don't want the image to smear as you're moving. And it will most likely be 90fps.

See how blurry this moving image is?
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0
On a low persistence display, this image is just as sharp when it is moving as it it when it is still. That means you'll get a double image whenever you miss a frame.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
55. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 13:53 Jensen
 
JoeNapalm wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 10:45:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:34:
DangerDog wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:11:
From what I've read you get vision fatigue from focusing on the screen so close to your eyes, removing the rift can take quite a while to recover normal vision.
You're focusing at infinity, so it doesn't matter how physically close the screen is to your eyes. There can be an issue if you're constantly looking at things that are close to you in the simulated environment, though.


This is the arguement Oculus makes, but I'm not buying it.

Your eyes are focusing on something right in front of your face. Whether that image represents infinity or duckies or bunnies or what not is up to your brain to interpret - it is not going to prevent eye strain to the physical parts of your eye that are focusing on the screen 4" from your eyeball.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
The rift refocuses the light using lenses, just like glasses. As far as your eyes are concerned, the rift screen really is infinitely far away.
 
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54. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 12:21 ELITE
 
This turned out to be a nutty thread...

Here is what I got out of playing with one:

-The dev kit resolution would not be worth buying (it looked like a pixel painting that moved)
-Playing a flight sim - when I was calm and flying it was amazing (but gauges were worthless unreadable)
- as soon as the bad guys came then turning my head would be come worthless as well because of the blur
- I started to get sick when i would move my body and not have the screen reflect that movement
- if i stayed still and only turned my head i didn't feel "wrong"
- no eye strain at all

I think these guys are fully aware of all the issues above and are really working to make it a success. If waiting for better screens is what they're doing great - if they're working on adding additional body tracking great.

My point - you REALLY don't want it yet (based on the first dev) and they're obviously making sure they get it to a level to make sure when they ship you're going to want it.

Far as I can read - everything they're doing is problem solving and that's more than you can say for Halflife 3 (i just had to be silly)

 
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53. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 11:24 Orogogus
 
JoeNapalm wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 10:45:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:34:
DangerDog wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:11:
From what I've read you get vision fatigue from focusing on the screen so close to your eyes, removing the rift can take quite a while to recover normal vision.
You're focusing at infinity, so it doesn't matter how physically close the screen is to your eyes. There can be an issue if you're constantly looking at things that are close to you in the simulated environment, though.



This is the arguement Oculus makes, but I'm not buying it.

Your eyes are focusing on something right in front of your face. Whether that image represents infinity or duckies or bunnies or what not is up to your brain to interpret - it is not going to prevent eye strain to the physical parts of your eye that are focusing on the screen 4" from your eyeball.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

It seems to me that if you're wearing glasses, or looking out a window, it's your brain that decides that it's looking at the image beyond the glass. Logically, it seems to me that if you were able to produce an image convincing enough on a VR screen, neither your brain nor your eyes would be able to tell that the image was actually 4 inches from your face rather than out there. Like, I don't think you get eyestrain looking at a mirror.
 
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52. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 11:18 Muscular Beaver
 
What about the burn-in problems OLEDs still have?
They would be even more obvious so close to the eyes.
 
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51. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 10:46 Vio
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
I get what you are talking about, but you are talking about an optimal frame rate. Very few games today run at these rates on our 'normal' 2d monitors. Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in? As far as I know games on a standard screen play and look okay from 25 frames and upwards.

Basically you need to render two images instead of one per pass, so at the worst we will need double the graphics power for the same resolution that we used to on our normal monitors.

Ive got a 760 GTX Im pretty happy with right now, another one in SLI mode might do the trick when the Oculus shows its ugly face. If it isnt, Im going to be happy to upgrade to whatever will be required. There is no reason to think that Nvidia and AMD wont be up to the challenge presented by doubling the power requirement.

Yea 30fps vsync with motion blur is generally enough on a standard 2d monitor, if you take away the motion blur you would need 60fps to make it look decent.

The thing about the rift that makes it awesome is the fabled 'you are there' feeling you get when you put it on, apparently when the FPS drops below 60 the realism effect is lost. I assume this has something to do with the latency involved between movement and transition on the screen; i.e. 60fps is latency translation of input and what you see of 16.6ms (they are aiming for 15ms on the rift hardware in terms of input/panel ability).

Computationally graphics wise the rift is a bit of a pain because it in essence is going to need to try render two points of view at 1280x1440 each and combine the image(single screen with two images would be 2560x1440 which will be the sweet spot for their display panel). I'll probably need to upgrade from the two 560's I have if I'm going to be playing anything modern graphics wise on the rift.

Oh well, it is definitely a exciting piece of hardware; a real game changer in the world of games
 
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50. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 10:45 JoeNapalm
 
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:34:
DangerDog wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 02:11:
From what I've read you get vision fatigue from focusing on the screen so close to your eyes, removing the rift can take quite a while to recover normal vision.
You're focusing at infinity, so it doesn't matter how physically close the screen is to your eyes. There can be an issue if you're constantly looking at things that are close to you in the simulated environment, though.


This is the arguement Oculus makes, but I'm not buying it.

Your eyes are focusing on something right in front of your face. Whether that image represents infinity or duckies or bunnies or what not is up to your brain to interpret - it is not going to prevent eye strain to the physical parts of your eye that are focusing on the screen 4" from your eyeball.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
 
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49. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 09:01 eRe4s3r
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
I get what you are talking about, but you are talking about an optimal frame rate. Very few games today run at these rates on our 'normal' 2d monitors. Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in? As far as I know games on a standard screen play and look okay from 25 frames and upwards.

Basically you need to render two images instead of one per pass, so at the worst we will need double the graphics power for the same resolution that we used to on our normal monitors.

Ive got a 760 GTX Im pretty happy with right now, another one in SLI mode might do the trick when the Oculus shows its ugly face. If it isnt, Im going to be happy to upgrade to whatever will be required. There is no reason to think that Nvidia and AMD wont be up to the challenge presented by doubling the power requirement.

As I understood the details so far for VR you want to be steadily beyond 60 fps. And steady meaning it may not matter whether 79 or 90. As long as both eye viewpoints are at EXACTLY the same frame-rate and that frame-rate is well above 60

And yeah, having 2 GPU's is what this is going to be about when all is said and done.
 
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48. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 08:19 SpectralMeat
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 08:16:
Ive got a 760 GTX Im pretty happy with right now, another one in SLI mode might do the trick when the Oculus shows its ugly face.
I am in the same boat.
Keeping an eye on deals on the 760 cards. I will most likely need a new PSU as well.
 
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47. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 08:16 InBlack
 
I get what you are talking about, but you are talking about an optimal frame rate. Very few games today run at these rates on our 'normal' 2d monitors. Do the games really have to run at 60 FPS per eye for the Virtual Reality 'trick' to kick in? As far as I know games on a standard screen play and look okay from 25 frames and upwards.

Basically you need to render two images instead of one per pass, so at the worst we will need double the graphics power for the same resolution that we used to on our normal monitors.

Ive got a 760 GTX Im pretty happy with right now, another one in SLI mode might do the trick when the Oculus shows its ugly face. If it isnt, Im going to be happy to upgrade to whatever will be required. There is no reason to think that Nvidia and AMD wont be up to the challenge presented by doubling the power requirement.
 
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46. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 08:08 Drayth
 
Edit-Actually, nm... I need to research this Rift a bit more.  
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45. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 07:56 eRe4s3r
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 06:40:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 05:58:
Jensen wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 03:47:
InBlack wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 03:20:
entr0py wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 01:43:
Ah, he side stepped the only thing I care about, resolution. I don't care about how organic and decomposable the display is. I only care that it doesn't look like SVGA graphics from 20 years ago.

This is indeed the biggest issue. The native resolution has to be at least 1080p, anything else and playing sims with this gear will be impossible. Well not impossible, but fucked up all the same. If I cant read the gauges in my cockpit or see the bogey out of my cockpit I might as well be flying blindfolded...
They've already confirmed that the consumer display will be at least 1080P. That will still seem very pixelated in a Rift. 1440P phone screens should be coming this year, and Samsung has said that they are working on a 4k phone display for 2015.

I think it's pretty funny you guys are focusing on resolution, forgetting you want to play games on that thing. The problem is not resolution, the problem is you need to run games at 120*2 fps because you have 2 viewpoints. There may be optimization possible but even then, you are looking at a massive new GPU investment to ever run a game on the rift "optimal". You can pray to the seven hardware gods that the resolution won't increase. Because beyond 1080p no GPU on this planet runs a modern game at 120fps.... and that's assuming you want 60fps per eye.. and not 120 as it is optimal.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about the frames per second or the refresh rate? Because these are not equivalent.

The refresh rate of 120Hz is a function of the screen and not really tied to the performance of the graphics card.

Ehm.. last I checked I said FPS like 5 times... I am talking about actual image rendered by your GPU. optimal for VR is 120 images per second per EYE Which the OR should be able to do, except on 1 panel (so half horizontal res). This means you need to render a game TWICE at 120fps for 8ms delay (at the resolution of 960x1080), or twice at 60fps if you want 16ms delay. The OR currently says it runs at 90hz (meaning you can push up to 90 fps per eye) but who knows whether that's the maximum or just that they have problems running all this data. 4k resolution is also an INSANE data volume. So there hardware reasons that limit resolution, aside from cost factors.

If you don't know how VR works I'd suggest reading the post by Valve about it. 60 fps is not 100% optimal... and even that not optimal frame rate needs to be rendered twice, at the same time with different viewports (which means aside from physics you can forget doing this without 2 dedicated GPU's) and these GPU's need to be in perfect sync with each other.

This is why they don't increase resolution beyond 1920x1080 .... 4k or rather 3840*2160 would require you to render a game at 1920*2160 ........ see the problem? How many games you know that run at 60 fps with such high resolutions? And with 2 viewpoints.... ? What about 90 fps? or 120?

You are hard pressed to find old games that run this fast even today, and even if you find games and settings that run at these speeds you would still be CPU bound, as Direct X and OpenGL add a HUGE layer of crap between GPU and GAME. Mantle might be a way to at least fix that problem.

Point is. Resolution is like the smallest least significant problem VR has. Frame rate and delay is what makes or fails VR.

This comment was edited on Jan 8, 2014, 08:08.
 
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44. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 07:31 Vio
 
Vio wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 07:30:
No it uses one panel with two view point images on it, then the optic cups just makes sure that each eye gets the correct piece of the total screen presented to it.

Thats why getting a greater than 1080p panel into the device is important, so that each eye can get at least 960p's worth of image giving a combined view of 1080p.
 
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43. Re: Oculus Rift Adds OLED and Tracking Jan 8, 2014, 07:30 Vio
 
No it uses one panel with two view point images on it, then the optic cups just makes sure that each eye gets the correct piece of the total screen presented to it.

3d tv technology on the other hand interleaves the two images onto the same panel full screen alternating and then the eye wear just alternates between the two images for left and right eye hence dropping the refresh rate in half.

The rift won't have this problem, your biggest problem is going to be your hardware's ability to essentially render the game twice from two viewpoints at 60fps, since it has been established you need 60fps with the low latency to give the scene you see presence.
 
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