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Fallout 3 Removes GFWL?

The Steam Database has details on a patch for Fallout 3 that rolled out a few days ago that removes some variables with names like ShowCDKeyOnLaunch and LegacyKeyRegistryLocation that the posters on NeoGAF say shows the removal of Games for Windows LIVE functionality from Bethesda's action/RPG sequel. This is by no means a stretch, as various other games have recently removed support for Microsoft's DRM, including Ultra Street Fighter IV, BioShock 2, the Arkham series, and DiRT 3 amid rife speculation that the service will soon end altogether following the closure of the GFWL marketplace during the summer. This should theoretically be easy enough to check, but reinstalling Fallout 3 here has resulted in errors keeping the game from launching, but for what it's worth, we did not see any GFWL. Thanks The Escapist. Update: After getting the game to run (protip: Fallout 3 does not seem to appreciate dual-monitor setups), Fallout 3 ran without any GFWL prompts. Update 2: Upon closer examination, the game did install the Games for Windows LIVE client, and when this was uninstalled, Fallout 3 will no longer launch.

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52. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 11, 2014, 06:54 Ladron3dfx
 
Joystiq.com article
Update: A Bethesda spokesperson has contacted Joystiq with clarification regarding the recent update. "We have not removed GFWL from the game," the spokesperson stated. "The only that that has changed is that Steam has removed the need to activate the GFWL codes when purchasing the game."

This only pertains to the Fallout 3 version on Steam, any other version is unaffected.

Dual DRM serves no one, so good news for all Steam cultists.
 
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51. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 10, 2014, 07:27 Redmask
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 11:18:
SimplyMonk wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 13:23:
Verno wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 12:40:
It's basically an adequate storefront with schizophrenic client software. Like most things EA does these days, it feels very poorly thought out and half assed.

It wasn't an instantaneous money maker that made it rain so it went on the back burner and isn't being prioritized.

Maybe because everything on there is on average 30% more expensive....

SimCity is $59.99 on Origin. Origin sucks.
 
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50. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 19:07 jimnms
 
Dev wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 00:52:
As I recall, GFWL was basically entirely optional in FO3, unless you got the DLC through it.

Even if you bought the DLC through GFWL, those were DRM free as well. You could move the files from wherever GFWL put them into the Fallout 3\Data directory and enable them with the launcher or a mod manager.
 
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49. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 11:18 eRe4s3r
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 13:23:
Verno wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 12:40:
It's basically an adequate storefront with schizophrenic client software. Like most things EA does these days, it feels very poorly thought out and half assed.

It wasn't an instantaneous money maker that made it rain so it went on the back burner and isn't being prioritized.

Maybe because everything on there is on average 30% more expensive....
 
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48. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 05:15 peteham
 
Creston wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 16:31:
Skyrim Redone definitely fixes that. Level 45 so far (though it's on a different curve, as SkyRE assumes you're running the uncapper), and stuff absolutely murders me if I don't pay attention to what I'm doing.

Not wolves and such anymore, of course, but that's logical. But a Dwemer Centurion will still kill me in 3 blows, and he's double annoying now because he knocks you down. High-end bandits are definitely still a threat, and high-level imperial soldiers can kill you. The Thalmor always remain a threat.

It definitely feels much more intense.
Thanks for the heads-up! I'll definitely check it out when I finally get around to revisiting Skyrim.
 
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47. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 03:02 Beamer
 
Jerykk wrote on Jan 8, 2014, 01:58:
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 23:28:
Orogogus wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 19:22:
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 17:50:
A game that combined Elder Scrolls style open world with Dark Souls style combat might be a lot of fun. Seems Bethesda have gone in the opposite direction since Morrowind, though. Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...

You feel Morrowind was the epitome of player skill in combat in an Elder Scrolls game?

Ok, you got me. Thought it made sense in my head, but on the page it looks pretty confused. Afraid I'm mixing two separate combat things I'd love to see, i.e. no enemy scaling (Dark Souls fits here, plus Morrowind and many other games) and combat that's player-skill based. (Dark Souls fits here too but as you pointed out, Morrowind, welll... )

I guess one big problem with having combat player-skill based, though - what if the player sucks? If you can't beat the first boss, you're not going to tell all your friends to buy the game. For no reason at all I was reminded of this problem today, while playing Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams.

Skill-based gameplay undermines roleplaying. If skill matters more than stats, then roles become meaningless because players can do whatever they're good at.

Which is why gunplay can be so hard. Do you make guns do less damage, which makes little sense, or do you make people terrible at aim, which can be frustrating (I always hate gunplay in the first level of Deus Ex, if I remember.)

Best case is Borderlands, where you magically can use guns that do more damage yet look identical. I'm ok with it, but whenever someone tries to add logic around it in-game it falls apart. Better to just not really acknowledge the mechanic.
 
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46. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 01:58 Jerykk
 
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 23:28:
Orogogus wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 19:22:
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 17:50:
A game that combined Elder Scrolls style open world with Dark Souls style combat might be a lot of fun. Seems Bethesda have gone in the opposite direction since Morrowind, though. Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...

You feel Morrowind was the epitome of player skill in combat in an Elder Scrolls game?

Ok, you got me. Thought it made sense in my head, but on the page it looks pretty confused. Afraid I'm mixing two separate combat things I'd love to see, i.e. no enemy scaling (Dark Souls fits here, plus Morrowind and many other games) and combat that's player-skill based. (Dark Souls fits here too but as you pointed out, Morrowind, welll... )

I guess one big problem with having combat player-skill based, though - what if the player sucks? If you can't beat the first boss, you're not going to tell all your friends to buy the game. For no reason at all I was reminded of this problem today, while playing Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams.

Skill-based gameplay undermines roleplaying. If skill matters more than stats, then roles become meaningless because players can do whatever they're good at.
 
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45. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 8, 2014, 00:52 Dev
 
As I recall, GFWL was basically entirely optional in FO3, unless you got the DLC through it.  
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44. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 23:50 jimnms
 
noman wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 18:58:
I have FO3:GOTY boxed version and it can be played without ever logging on to GFWL. For that matter, once patched using standalone updates, the game can be run without disc as well, by using the fallout3 executable directly instead of the launcher application.

It's the best version of the game when run in this manner - not saddled with Steam, GFWL or any other DRM mechanism.

I think it's always been like that. I had the original boxed version from release day, then I bought the GOTY boxed version later because it was $5 cheaper than buying all the DLC. The disk check was only on the launcher, and neither one required the disk when running from the Fallout3.exe.
 
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43. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 23:28 fiftykyu
 
Orogogus wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 19:22:
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 17:50:
A game that combined Elder Scrolls style open world with Dark Souls style combat might be a lot of fun. Seems Bethesda have gone in the opposite direction since Morrowind, though. Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...

You feel Morrowind was the epitome of player skill in combat in an Elder Scrolls game?

Ok, you got me. Thought it made sense in my head, but on the page it looks pretty confused. Afraid I'm mixing two separate combat things I'd love to see, i.e. no enemy scaling (Dark Souls fits here, plus Morrowind and many other games) and combat that's player-skill based. (Dark Souls fits here too but as you pointed out, Morrowind, welll... )

I guess one big problem with having combat player-skill based, though - what if the player sucks? If you can't beat the first boss, you're not going to tell all your friends to buy the game. For no reason at all I was reminded of this problem today, while playing Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams.
 
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42. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 21:42 Denthor
 
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 17:50:
Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...

That was my impression too - would be awesome if they can nail it. Dark souls, imo, is utterly unique in it's combat, really have to pay attention to whats happening - timing is everything. Would love more games like it.
 
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41. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 19:22 Orogogus
 
fiftykyu wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 17:50:
A game that combined Elder Scrolls style open world with Dark Souls style combat might be a lot of fun. Seems Bethesda have gone in the opposite direction since Morrowind, though. Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...

You feel Morrowind was the epitome of player skill in combat in an Elder Scrolls game?
 
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40. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 19:19 Silicon Avatar
 
There's a mod (Tale of Two Wastelands I think) that connects New Vegas and Fallout 3 together and basically lets you play Fallout 3 with the New Vegas engine. You can go between lands on a train. It works pretty well for how huge it is (there are still bugs). It is a bit of a hassle to install but it's kind of fun to mess around with.

 
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39. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 18:59 Cutter
 
More AD&D/MMO with a few hotbars of kickass spells and moves would be better still. The combat - melee or magic - in Skyrim is seriously wanting.
 
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38. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 18:58 noman
 
jimnms wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 14:43:
On my second play I had the GOTY edition and modded it. Using FOSE and the 4GB patch disabled GFWL anyway, so I had forgotten it was a GFWL title.

I have FO3:GOTY boxed version and it can be played without ever logging on to GFWL. For that matter, once patched using standalone updates, the game can be run without disc as well, by using the fallout3 executable directly instead of the launcher application.

It's the best version of the game when run in this manner - not saddled with Steam, GFWL or any other DRM mechanism.
 
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37. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 18:00 LittleMe
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 14:58:
I had a few days of fun modding the shit out of it too...

Yes it's ironic how modding FO3/Skyrim/NV is so much fun. Feels so rewarding making them (hopefully) better games.

 
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36. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 17:50 fiftykyu
 
peteham wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 16:24:
I'd like to see them emulate Dark Souls for future games. Obligatory tangent here: Seriously you guys, if you haven't yet, play Dark Souls! Most enjoyable gaming experience for me in years. Actual *gameplay* as opposed to most "AAA" interactive stories these days, amazing exploration and atmosphere, and great bossfights to boot. And I usually *hate* bossfights. The whole difficulty/frustration thing is highly overrated. Truly some of the best combat I've tried, having a fairly simple combat system at its core, which still manages to be fairly deep thanks to different weapons having very different move sets, enemies that require entirely different approaches, and where 2-3 hits kills almost anything except bosses (which goes for the player as well). Timing, learning enemy patterns (i.e. player skill) is just as important as stats, but it doesn't really require insane reflexes either, and you can outlevel stuff to get past difficult fights if you really need to. And finally, even when highly leveled, low level zombies can still easily kill you if you're reckless, so things never really get dull.


A game that combined Elder Scrolls style open world with Dark Souls style combat might be a lot of fun. Seems Bethesda have gone in the opposite direction since Morrowind, though. Got the impression Witcher 3 was going for that combination, i.e. player skill based instead of mash R1 to kill everything, but we'll see how it turns out...
 
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35. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 16:31 Creston
 
peteham wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 16:24:
Some 10-20 hours in, you're basically chipping away at walking-sometimes-talking health bars, as your power-curve goes completely flat. Your moves don't feel powerful, there's no real need to block anymore, and it all becomes rather boring.


Skyrim Redone definitely fixes that. Level 45 so far (though it's on a different curve, as SkyRE assumes you're running the uncapper), and stuff absolutely murders me if I don't pay attention to what I'm doing.

Not wolves and such anymore, of course, but that's logical. But a Dwemer Centurion will still kill me in 3 blows, and he's double annoying now because he knocks you down. High-end bandits are definitely still a threat, and high-level imperial soldiers can kill you. The Thalmor always remain a threat.

It definitely feels much more intense.
 
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34. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 16:24 peteham
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 12:55:
Verno wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 10:59:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 10:57:
Obligatory: I liked Fallout 3 better But yeah, when it comes down to it Bethesda is one of the few companies making games I actually enjoyed playing. Lots of time spent in Fallout 3 and NV with tons of mods. Though I gotta say.. the next game by Beth better be 64bit trough and through and not use Gamebryo

I don't really care what they use but they need to hire better animators and someone needs to revisit the combat engine. Loved Skyrim but those aspects are really showing their age.

You know, when everyone complained about the combat in Skyrim, I kind of shrugged, because it felt good to me in Oblivion.

When I finally got Skyrim I had to agree - it felt dated. In the time between Oblivion and Skyrim something changed.

I'd love to see them fix it. I don't care as much about the animation (though there's absolutely room for improvement), but combat needs an overhaul. I can't think of any obvious changes, but I'm guessing they'll find plenty.
I'd really love to do a Skyrim replay with the legendary edition at some point. The reason I haven't gotten around to it yet is because I doubt I'd be able to enjoy even two hours of the combat after putting 80-100 hours into the game already. And for the last 30 of those, downing more Draugr and whatnot was almost enough to make me puke

I loved the world of Skyrim, but while the combat was perfectly fine early on, as the game goes on, it becomes apparent that the mechanics are just too simple/shallow for a game that size. You do exactly the same things for far too long, with no variety in moves/tactics over the course of the game what so ever. This is made worse through the leveling system (like in Oblivion), which makes things ever more bullet-spongy. Some 10-20 hours in, you're basically chipping away at walking-sometimes-talking health bars, as your power-curve goes completely flat. Your moves don't feel powerful, there's no real need to block anymore, and it all becomes rather boring.


I'd like to see them emulate Dark Souls for future games. Obligatory tangent here: Seriously you guys, if you haven't yet, play Dark Souls! Most enjoyable gaming experience for me in years. Actual *gameplay* as opposed to most "AAA" interactive stories these days, amazing exploration and atmosphere, and great bossfights to boot. And I usually *hate* bossfights. The whole difficulty/frustration thing is highly overrated. Truly some of the best combat I've tried, having a fairly simple combat system at its core, which still manages to be fairly deep thanks to different weapons having very different move sets, enemies that require entirely different approaches, and where 2-3 hits kills almost anything except bosses (which goes for the player as well). Timing, learning enemy patterns (i.e. player skill) is just as important as stats, but it doesn't really require insane reflexes either, and you can outlevel stuff to get past difficult fights if you really need to. And finally, even when highly leveled, low level zombies can still easily kill you if you're reckless, so things never really get dull.

 
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33. Re: Fallout 3 Removes GFWL? Jan 7, 2014, 15:00 jimnms
 
Panickd wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 11:25:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 7, 2014, 10:57:
Obligatory: I liked Fallout 3 better But yeah, when it comes down to it Bethesda is one of the few companies making games I actually enjoyed playing. Lots of time spent in Fallout 3 and NV with tons of mods. Though I gotta say.. the next game by Beth better be 64bit trough and through and not use Gamebryo

Fallout 3 is one of the few games where I've actually had my attention locked to it from beginning to end. It was a great story. New Vegas was good but not great and riddled with annoying bugs that made it pretty obvious that Bethesda didn't make it (Obsidian has a habit of taking their stuff to about 85-90% of the way to perfect and then going, "Meh. Good enough!").

But whatever Bethesda does next I can almost guarantee you they won't be killing off Gamebryo. Even if they take it 64 bit, even if they rewrite a lot of aspects to drag it kicking and screaming into the next generation I am sure they'll be sticking with it (under different names, of course). They're not a burn it to the ground and start over sort of developer. But then very few are.

Funny, I feel like Bethesda games are 85-90% complete (if that much). I love the original Fallout games, and I liked Fallout 3. I thought it was a good story in the Fallout universe, but I felt it was half a assed attempt by someone that never played the originals. Maybe they read a strategy guide of Fallout and thought they could do a good enough job.

The world was beautiful in a post apocalyptic way, but it was little things like the weapons using the wrong ammo and finding fully stocked grocery stores yards away from towns/camps. Seriously, did no one think to go loot that place in 200 years? Ammo was weightless and there was way too much pre-war food, which served no purpose in the game. It did have minor healing properties, but you couldn't walk two feet in the game without tripping over a stimpak. Fallout 3 was a good story in the Fallout universe, but a poorly balanced game.
 
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