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29. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 21, 2013, 13:20 harlock
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 22:03:
I can't see what the Mac Pro does on a technical level that makes it superior to the computing performance of, say, a Dell Precision or HP Z820 when used as an actual professional workstation that would necessitate the use of a multicore Xeon.

It just seems like a vastly overpriced object d'art for the tasteless to circle jerk over.

does what the name says.. its the pro version of a mac - high end workstation for using with OSX... but yeh its so overpriced its ridiculous, also the "expandability" is a joke when talking about PCI-E cards... for instance you cant replace the standard video card with anything else because it needs mac firmware

but thats a last gen concern anyways... these new trashcan models dont even try to give the illusion of expandability, other than a shitload of thunderbolt ports

there was an article about getting a new maxed out mac pro - was literally $9000.. its fucking retarded man
 
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28. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 21, 2013, 05:53 ViRGE
 
Kitkoan wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 19:10:
If I remember correctly, there is zero US labor involved in something like this that's "assembled in the USA".

It'd fully automated machines that are design, build and maintain by Chinese employees on cheap visas. It's all marketing to help people think they are bringing jobs back to USA, even though they aren't.
Apple actually has a video up showing the Mac Pro assembly process. So you can see for yourself how much of it is human and how much is robot.

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/video/#assembly
 
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27. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 21, 2013, 01:58 Redmask
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 21:35:
The main point was how ridiculous Cutter's criticism of Apple appears to be. Unless he's made sure none of his possessions are also made outside the US, it's getting hypocritical to bang on about it so much.

I thought he was joking at first, now I think it's only about 50% joking at most. His largely incoherent ramble doesn't clear that up; Cutter, seriously, what? Do you own a phone? Who made it? Who made your mouse? Who made your monitor?

He just hits and runs, don't expect any serious answers to your questions because then he might have to face his hypocrisy in hating Apple for something that almost every corporation does. I don't even own any Apple products but it's pretty stupid to moan about manufacturing jobs when the product you're using to type it probably wasn't even made in north america.
 
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26. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 22:17 Kitkoan
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 22:03:
I can't see what the Mac Pro does on a technical level that makes it superior to the computing performance of, say, a Dell Precision or HP Z820 when used as an actual professional workstation that would necessitate the use of a multicore Xeon.

It just seems like a vastly overpriced object d'art for the tasteless to circle jerk over.

It's for those that use OSX, due to preference or need.

Like Pixer would need these since all their custom software is no doubt OSX based (they were owned by Steve Jobs) and the cost and time to rewrite all of those into either Windows or Linux would out weigh the price of this machine.

Beyond that, I agree with you.
 
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25. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 22:03 Burrito of Peace
 
I can't see what the Mac Pro does on a technical level that makes it superior to the computing performance of, say, a Dell Precision or HP Z820 when used as an actual professional workstation that would necessitate the use of a multicore Xeon.

It just seems like a vastly overpriced object d'art for the tasteless to circle jerk over.
 
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24. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 22:00 Kitkoan
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 21:35:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.) Every Windows computer in my home since 1995 has been assembled in the USA--assembled by me, personally, as I cherry-pick the hardware components and order them separately and "assemble" them myself. Assembling is one thing, manufacturing a component is quite another, isn't it?

(Man, the RDF is really deep in this thread...;) Keep it coming guys, always entertaining!)



I didn't forget anything, I simply pointed out that it's not entirely done outside the US. Nothing else.

The main point was how ridiculous Cutter's criticism of Apple appears to be. Unless he's made sure none of his possessions are also made outside the US, it's getting hypocritical to bang on about it so much.

I thought he was joking at first, now I think it's only about 50% joking at most. His largely incoherent ramble doesn't clear that up; Cutter, seriously, what? Do you own a phone? Who made it? Who made your mouse? Who made your monitor?

Not to feed the fire and all, but Cutter does have a somewhat point.

Apple gets a lot of tax cuts from the US government for its retail stores. It gets waivers in court bans. And other tax cuts from beyond their retail shops.

And for this apple has declared they will not return jobs back to the US, and have invested billions in China's future in the form of robotic designs. Money that could have helped the US but apple would prefer to spend in China and it's future (link )

And as that article States, they are now using their China investments to remove more us retail jobs (iPhone fixing machine) with Chinese developed, Chinese made machines. Which is also what I think is happening with the assembled in the USA machines since it's more then a quick job so it qualifies as assembled in the USA but is fully automated removing the US jobs it could have created.
 
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23. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 21:35 Quboid
 
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.) Every Windows computer in my home since 1995 has been assembled in the USA--assembled by me, personally, as I cherry-pick the hardware components and order them separately and "assemble" them myself. Assembling is one thing, manufacturing a component is quite another, isn't it?

(Man, the RDF is really deep in this thread...;) Keep it coming guys, always entertaining!)



I didn't forget anything, I simply pointed out that it's not entirely done outside the US (and that this is more than some). Nothing else.

The main point was how ridiculous Cutter's criticism of Apple appears to be. Unless he's made sure none of his possessions are also made outside the US, it's getting hypocritical to bang on about it so much.

I thought he was joking at first, now I think it's only about 50% joking at most. His largely incoherent ramble doesn't clear that up; Cutter, seriously, what? Do you own a phone? Who made it? Who made your mouse? Who made your monitor?

This comment was edited on Dec 20, 2013, 21:56.
 
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22. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 21:14 Kitkoan
 
Orogogus wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 19:35:
Kitkoan wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 19:10:
nin wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:28:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)

No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.


If I remember correctly, there is zero US labor involved in something like this that's "assembled in the USA".

It'd fully automated machines that are design, build and maintain by Chinese employees on cheap visas. It's all marketing to help people think they are bringing jobs back to USA, even though they aren't.

There are rules governing this, and you're not allowed to say "assembled in the USA" -- which Apple has said, in so many words -- for basic repackaging operations.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

Assembled in USA Claims

A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the productís last "substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the U.S. Thatís why a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesnít usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim.

Example: A lawn mower, composed of all domestic parts except for the cable sheathing, flywheel, wheel rims and air filter (15 to 20 percent foreign content) is assembled in the U.S. An "Assembled in USA" claim is appropriate.

Example: All the major components of a computer, including the motherboard and hard drive, are imported. The computerís components then are put together in a simple "screwdriver" operation in the U.S., are not substantially transformed under the Customs Standard, and must be marked with a foreign country of origin. An "Assembled in U.S." claim without further qualification is deceptive.

In any case, I don't understand why you guys, including several forum regulars, are engaging Cutter on this. This isn't going to be a frank exchange of ideas. What do you see as the endpoint other than name-calling and insults?

That says nothing about who performs the labor, just that the labor has to be more then a basic one set of moves which these machines do. It has many steps to put together, they are just all computer controlled
 
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21. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 19:35 Orogogus
 
Kitkoan wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 19:10:
nin wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:28:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)

No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.


If I remember correctly, there is zero US labor involved in something like this that's "assembled in the USA".

It'd fully automated machines that are design, build and maintain by Chinese employees on cheap visas. It's all marketing to help people think they are bringing jobs back to USA, even though they aren't.

There are rules governing this, and you're not allowed to say "assembled in the USA" -- which Apple has said, in so many words -- for basic repackaging operations.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

Assembled in USA Claims

A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the productís last "substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the U.S. Thatís why a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesnít usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim.

Example: A lawn mower, composed of all domestic parts except for the cable sheathing, flywheel, wheel rims and air filter (15 to 20 percent foreign content) is assembled in the U.S. An "Assembled in USA" claim is appropriate.

Example: All the major components of a computer, including the motherboard and hard drive, are imported. The computerís components then are put together in a simple "screwdriver" operation in the U.S., are not substantially transformed under the Customs Standard, and must be marked with a foreign country of origin. An "Assembled in U.S." claim without further qualification is deceptive.

In any case, I don't understand why you guys, including several forum regulars, are engaging Cutter on this. This isn't going to be a frank exchange of ideas. What do you see as the endpoint other than name-calling and insults?
 
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20. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 19:10 Kitkoan
 
nin wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:28:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)


No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.


If I remember correctly, there is zero US labor involved in something like this that's "assembled in the USA".

It'd fully automated machines that are design, build and maintain by Chinese employees on cheap visas. It's all marketing to help people think they are bringing jobs back to USA, even though they aren't.
 
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19. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 19:02 harlock
 
Brataccas wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 14:35:
I've been running bootcamp on seven different macs since OS X Leopard and I've never had a problem with the supplied Windows drivers.

ive repaired well over a thousand macs in the past 5 years.. im gonna go with my exp on this instead of your personal little situation
 
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18. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 18:56 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 18:40:
nin wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:28:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)


No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.


Wow, golly. I'm sooooooooooooo sorry for my remarks. You guys are such super patriots because of this I guess! I thought supporting workers in my country and my friends to the south was the right thing to do, but I guess that's just old fashioned. Yeah, who needs a middle-class or a decent life. Fuck everyone and everything all for the sake of a buck. So when you're downsized and trying to exist in a dead end, slave wage job don't get upset when no one else has an iota of sympathy for you. In fact, I'll point and laugh at your suffering because that's all you selfish pricks do.

Cutter, you're missing the point. As people have said to you in the past, which you often seem to ignore, Apple is no different than companies like Intel or Google or Logitech or whomever when it comes to their manufacturing, so taking a stance solely against Apple seems to be giving a pass to basically every other company, despite being equally bad.

Furthermore, at least money spent on Apple products primarily stays in the US, even if manufacturing isn't here. What about people buying a Samsung phone?

Lastly, this board absolutely loves hammering on Microsoft in favor of Sony. How many jobs does Microsoft have in the US vs Sony? It's exponentially more. We're talking over 50,000 more. And the ownership is mostly US. For each dollar Microsoft makes, far more stays in the US than each dollar Sony makes.
So where is your patriotism in the console war?

It comes across less as "Cutter likes US manufacturing" and a lot more as "Cutter hates Apple."
 
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17. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 18:40 Cutter
 
nin wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:28:
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)


No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.


Wow, golly. I'm sooooooooooooo sorry for my remarks. You guys are such super patriots because of this I guess! I thought supporting workers in my country and my friends to the south was the right thing to do, but I guess that's just old fashioned. Yeah, who needs a middle-class or a decent life. Fuck everyone and everything all for the sake of a buck. So when you're downsized and trying to exist in a dead end, slave wage job don't get upset when no one else has an iota of sympathy for you. In fact, I'll point and laugh at your suffering because that's all you selfish pricks do.
 
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16. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 18:02 MattyC
 
In those photos the new Mac Pro looks much better than I thought it would. Sort of a very metallic finish. What I had seen previously made it look like a boring almost plastic looking black.

Still looks like a trash bin though... just a very fancy trash bin. No idea how they went from the awesome looking previous Mac Pro cases to that.
 
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15. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 16:36 Redmask
 
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:03:
You've been reading far too many Mac-oriented publications...;) I suggest you broaden your horizons and get away from Apple for a couple of years--if you ever want to learn anything besides Mac propaganda, that is. First of all, Macs, including this hideous monstrosity (looks like a spittoon from the top and a coffee-maker from the side)use the very same hardware you find in PCs--it's called x86 Intel. Bus standards, hard drives--the works--it is all 100% Intel bog standard off-the-shelf.

The major difference is that Macs--those few that can be called desktops, that is--support only a fraction of the hardware Windows supports. Windows, btw, runs natively on the Mac--it is not an emulation--it runs just as natively on a Mac as OS X. Bootcamp simply automates the Windows install process since the great majority of Mac owners are clueless when it comes to setting up systems that dual boot between two OSes.

But, yea, you can run Windows natively to get the real experience of a personal computer--which means that all that Windows software that is published which doesn't support OS X (a lot!) can be accessed and enjoyed by Mac users, too--provided they've installed Windows. If you want to run Windows, though--best not buy a Mac at all, frankly. Like someone said earlier, Bootcamp hardware drivers (which have to be supplied by Apple) are generally not up to par. WIndows supports at least 10x the amount of hardware that Apple supports in OS X and builds into its Macs. IE, buy a Mac and your choices of hardware are severely diminished.

It's posts like yours that let me know that the RDF is still powerful and thriving in Apple land...;) Keep it up, though--always amusing to read stuff like this.

GET OVER HERE! FATALITY!
 
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14. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 15:28 nin
 
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:11:
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.)


No. He was referring to the fact that it at least contained some US labor, compared to any other number of companies that have none at all.

 
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13. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 15:21 Creston
 
(High-PPI support in) Windows 8.1: still not so great.

Surprise surprise.
 
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12. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 15:11 WaltC
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 13:57:
That Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Cutter, how many of the manufacturers you buy from can even say that?

Assembled in the USA--made in China. (You forgot about that, I guess.) Every Windows computer in my home since 1995 has been assembled in the USA--assembled by me, personally, as I cherry-pick the hardware components and order them separately and "assemble" them myself. Assembling is one thing, manufacturing a component is quite another, isn't it?

(Man, the RDF is really deep in this thread...;) Keep it coming guys, always entertaining!)


 
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11. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 15:08 Fibrocyte
 
WaltC wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 15:03:
Hobeaux wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 10:08:
actually, yes. I've read several articles over the years that the Mac hardware runs Windows better than many/most/all (depending on the year) PC hardware. There are a couple of options, such as VMWare or Parallels, so one could have Windows running in a VM inside the OS Xóbut Apple provides a solution called Boot Camp that allows a user to choose OS X or Windows at boot so you get the full native experience.

That said, it's not a guarantee that Windows will understand some of the hardware components, so YMMV.

You've been reading far too many Mac-oriented publications...;) I suggest you broaden your horizons and get away from Apple for a couple of years--if you ever want to learn anything besides Mac propaganda, that is. First of all, Macs, including this hideous monstrosity (looks like a spittoon from the top and a coffee-maker from the side)use the very same hardware you find in PCs--it's called x86 Intel. Bus standards, hard drives--the works--it is all 100% Intel bog standard off-the-shelf.

The major difference is that Macs--those few that can be called desktops, that is--support only a fraction of the hardware Windows supports. Windows, btw, runs natively on the Mac--it is not an emulation--it runs just as natively on a Mac as OS X. Bootcamp simply automates the Windows install process since the great majority of Mac owners are clueless when it comes to setting up systems that dual boot between two OSes.

But, yea, you can run Windows natively to get the real experience of a personal computer--which means that all that Windows software that is published which doesn't support OS X (a lot!) can be accessed and enjoyed by Mac users, too--provided they've installed Windows. If you want to run Windows, though--best not buy a Mac at all, frankly. Like someone said earlier, Bootcamp hardware drivers (which have to be supplied by Apple) are generally not up to par. WIndows supports at least 10x the amount of hardware that Apple supports in OS X and builds into its Macs. IE, buy a Mac and your choices of hardware are severely diminished.

It's posts like yours that let me know that the RDF is still powerful and thriving in Apple land...;) Keep it up, though--always amusing to read stuff like this.


Ouuuuch!
 
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10. Re: Morning Tech Bits Dec 20, 2013, 15:03 WaltC
 
Hobeaux wrote on Dec 20, 2013, 10:08:
actually, yes. I've read several articles over the years that the Mac hardware runs Windows better than many/most/all (depending on the year) PC hardware. There are a couple of options, such as VMWare or Parallels, so one could have Windows running in a VM inside the OS Xóbut Apple provides a solution called Boot Camp that allows a user to choose OS X or Windows at boot so you get the full native experience.

That said, it's not a guarantee that Windows will understand some of the hardware components, so YMMV.

You've been reading far too many Mac-oriented publications...;) I suggest you broaden your horizons and get away from Apple for a couple of years--if you ever want to learn anything besides Mac propaganda, that is. First of all, Macs, including this hideous monstrosity (looks like a spittoon from the top and a coffee-maker from the side)use the very same hardware you find in PCs--it's called x86 Intel. Bus standards, hard drives--the works--it is all 100% Intel bog standard off-the-shelf.

The major difference is that Macs--those few that can be called desktops, that is--support only a fraction of the hardware Windows supports. Windows, btw, runs natively on the Mac--it is not an emulation--it runs just as natively on a Mac as OS X. Bootcamp simply automates the Windows install process since the great majority of Mac owners are clueless when it comes to setting up systems that dual boot between two OSes.

But, yea, you can run Windows natively to get the real experience of a personal computer--which means that all that Windows software that is published which doesn't support OS X (a lot!) can be accessed and enjoyed by Mac users, too--provided they've installed Windows. If you want to run Windows, though--best not buy a Mac at all, frankly. Like someone said earlier, Bootcamp hardware drivers (which have to be supplied by Apple) are generally not up to par. WIndows supports at least 10x the amount of hardware that Apple supports in OS X and builds into its Macs. IE, buy a Mac and your choices of hardware are severely diminished.

It's posts like yours that let me know that the RDF is still powerful and thriving in Apple land...;) Keep it up, though--always amusing to read stuff like this.

 
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