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Morning Previews

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36. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 16:37 PHJF
 
Hitting an enemy in the eyes in FO is like a 50% crit chance.

That's why you always aim for the eyes. Unless you're playing Jagged Alliance 2. Then you just aim for the head. So satisfying!
 
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35. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 14:36 Beamer
 
Blinding characters was cool, but kind of a limited use. So was making them drop weapons. There were times it made sense, but otherwise it likely wasn't the best choice.

What made it most interesting to me was cover. There was a guy behind a tree, and you had a 90% chance to hit him in the arm, which would just wound him, but only a 50% chance to hit him in the head, which would take him out. Which do you do? Do you play it safe, or do you go for the hail mary? Which made the most sense given your health, location, etc.
 
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34. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 14:32 OpticNerve
 
jimnms wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 10:06:
It would be nice to be able to target body parts like Fallout 1/2/T, but I rarely ever used that in Fallout.

I used it all the time in FO1/2 and it's pretty much what instantly made me love the games once I found out about that feature. Later on it was basically a freebie due to the insane hit chance percentages your characters got and it made a huge difference in a lot of close battles for me. It was pretty much a risk vs reward type of deal and it was really satisfying to win a tough battle due to good use of aimed body shots such as blinding or disarming ranged enemies and crippling close-combat melee enemies.

jimnms wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 10:06:
I liked the kill shot cams in XCOM, but didn't care for the running to cover ones. I don't think those would work in WL2. The game looks nice from it's high up perspective, but the characters aren't as detailed as they are in XCOM so you would hear people complaining about how crappy it looks.

Yeah I agree with you about XCOM's running cam and you bring up a good point about WL2's character graphics. It's kind of a shame that they didn't fully embrace the PC platform and offer up some high-res textures and/or models. Perhaps they could do that in an optional download if there's enough demand for it like Bethesda did for Skyrim.
 
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33. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 11:30 harlock
 
jimnms wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 10:06:
It would be nice to be able to target body parts like Fallout 1/2/T, but I rarely ever used that in Fallout.

thats too bad - you missed out on a big feature

aiming for eyes can make enemies blind, aiming for arms can make them drop weapons, aiming for legs can slow them down, some enemies had weak spots where they would take more damage, etc. - it wasnt just a cosmetic addition to combat
 
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32. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 10:06 jimnms
 
OpticNerve wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 22:38:
Combat definitely needs something more to it. At the moment, it's a bit drab and plain. While playing the beta, I had a big urge to find a way to target body parts ala. FO1 and FO2 and not being able to do so was pretty disappointing.

Hopefully they can add something that'll make combat more tactical or give it a bit more oomph (I know not everyone liked it, but the action cutscenes in the recent X-Coms made combat rewarding for me).

It would be nice to be able to target body parts like Fallout 1/2/T, but I rarely ever used that in Fallout. The only time I remember using it was on a quest to clear out a section of a town that was overrun by deathclaws. I remember they tell you to aim for the eyes or something. I probably was taking that quest way too early because I had to load and re-try several times. With the weapon I had I could fire two non targeted shots or one targeted shot (because those cost more AP). I usually would rather get two high percentage shots than one lower percentage targeted shot. Although in Fallout, unused action points were added to your AC for defense during enemy turns, so you aren't wasting AP if you do take a targeted shot. I'm not sure WL2 does this or not.

I liked the kill shot cams in XCOM, but didn't care for the running to cover ones. I don't think those would work in WL2. The game looks nice from it's high up perspective, but the characters aren't as detailed as they are in XCOM so you would hear people complaining about how crappy it looks.
 
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31. Re: Morning Previews Dec 17, 2013, 02:04 saluk
 
The Banner Saga is being horribly misrepresented by that awful RPS write-up as an "onrails rpg". It's a tactics rpg - like fire emblem, fft, etc. They've been around for a while. Unlike xcom, which pairs a strategy game up with a fairly simple simulation, most tactics rpgs do a little bit of on rails story interspersed with the tactical battles. I'm surprised the RPS guys were so unfamiliar (or come across as so ignorant) with the genre.

Personally I'm not thrilled with the combat itself, being at times confused, bored, and irritated with Banner Saga Factions; but it may be a style thing, as other people I've talked to really like the system.
 
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30. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 22:38 OpticNerve
 
Combat definitely needs something more to it. At the moment, it's a bit drab and plain. While playing the beta, I had a big urge to find a way to target body parts ala. FO1 and FO2 and not being able to do so was pretty disappointing.

Hopefully they can add something that'll make combat more tactical or give it a bit more oomph (I know not everyone liked it, but the action cutscenes in the recent X-Coms made combat rewarding for me).
 
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29. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 22:31 jdreyer
 
harlock wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 18:06:
PHJF wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 17:48:
I think (paid) early access is going to do more harm than good to games, in general.

yep... buying games while they are still half finished is almost always a bad idea.. its an individual thing, but overall i think the trend is "not good"

not to mention how it will impact selling the game once its finished? could be a year later, well due for a sale... so the full price is only charged on an unfinished version? im wondering how that will play out

All good points. When you get into a beta, you need to understand IT'S A BETA. We're I a young, single man, I'd do beta testing with the thought I could help improve some aspect of a game that I'd play in the future. These days though, work, family, etc. take up most of my free time, so I only want the most finished, polished games to play. I rarely get games at launch and usually it's months or even years before I pick them up, by which time they're completely patched as much as they will be.
 
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28. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 22:04 Prez
 
Seriously though, this is not a valid excuse. They should get the fundamentals right first. An engaging, varied and interesting in-depth TB combat system should have been a priority. If you have to, then make the game world smaller. Remove some of the filler. Scale down on some parts. But you MUST get the basics right.

The combat system can be tweaked based on player feedback though. That is exactly what a beta is for, isn't it? From what I'm reading it isn't horrible; it just needs some work.
 
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27. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 20:19 jimnms
 
harlock wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 11:21:
i keep hearing this and its worrying i must say:

Not all of the old-school charm is so charming, however, and in particular I am yet to be convinced by the combat. It's turn-based, but so far without the tactical depth to make it interesting rather than simply slow. There are no stances, no targeted hits, each character is only likely to have any skill with a single weapon and toys like grenades are rarer than hens' teeth. Environments also suffer from a general lack of detail or options, with the result that - so far at least - there's not much to do except stand next to cover, take pot-shots and toggle opportunity fire that may or may not actually be taken. Later, having more choices will hopefully make things more interesting.

If I had to compare the combat system in WL2 to another game, it would be more like the new XCOM:EU. When you right click to move, it shows two grids, one for how far you can move and still have enough AP to fire your currently selected weapon and a second one showing you your farthest movement.

There are no stances, but when moving, you can see when in move mode that an object in the world will provide cover, what direction the cover is provided. If you move to cover, the character will move to cover and kneel behind it.

The targeting is similar too, there are icons on the side representing all visible targets to the selected character. You can click these icons or you can click a target on the screen. You see info such as your chance to hit, the approx. damage you will do, etc.

I don't know how grenades work, I found one, but I haven't used it yet. They need to give better documentation on what keys and other things do. You can equip two weapons, but I haven't figured out how to switch between them. There are icons when in combat to reload and switch fire modes (auto/burst/single), and one that I forgot what it's called, that I think is supposed to be like overwatch. I've clicked it and had mixed results, sometimes my character immediately fires, sometimes they do nothing.

I've only played it a few hours the day I got my beta code. I've run into some bugs, but the game has been patched several times already. One was during a random encounter where there was an enemy behind cover, and no matter what it always showed a 0% chance to hit him. I assume the 0% chance was incorrect as I did hit him.

Another one was with one of the characters I created. I created a Native American Buddhist as my medic, but once I started the game, she was now a Russian Christian. Then later all of the personal bio. things you can chose during character creation disappeared completely. It only happened to that one character in my party, the rest were fine.

I'm going to start a new game tonight and see what has changed, but so far I like what I see for the most part. There are a few things I would like to see changed. There is health regen when in a map and outside of combat. There seems to be mixed opinions on this, some say it happens too fast, some too slow, some say it needs to be removed. Personally I thought it was too slow to be of any real advantage. You can't rest or speed up time to heal quicker. The original WL had health regen by waiting in map mode, but there was a chance to encounter an enemy while waiting. The regen rate was something like +2 CON every 30 seconds or so, so if you have a badly injured character and wanted to fully heal via the regen, you'd have to let the game sit idle for 10-20 minutes depending on max CON and how badly hurt they are.

I assumed you healed when traveling over the map view, but you don't. I had one character close to death after clearing out an area. I left and went to an oasis to refill water, assuming my team would heal along the way. When I was almost there I hit a random encounter, and my team's CON was the same as when I left. I would like to see healing while traveling added, since that was the way it happened in WL1 (and FO1, FO2, FO:T). You're supposed to also be able to use the field medic skill to heal, but I either did it wrong or it is/was broken because I couldn't get it to work.

One other nitpick I had is when in combat one of my team went down. It showed they would bleed out and die in something like 80 turns. I knew the encounter would end before then, and as soon as combat ended a few turns later, it went back to real time and they bled out in a few seconds, before I my medic character could get to them.
 
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26. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 19:31 HorrorScope
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 13:37:
Hand ups those with professional game design experience? Just me? Ok you can all shut up now.

I released a couple games in the 80's when one did everything. Found out there was more money and better hours/management in biz apps, easier to.

All in all I feel I could still be a game designer.
 
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25. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 18:06 harlock
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 17:48:
I think (paid) early access is going to do more harm than good to games, in general.

yep... buying games while they are still half finished is almost always a bad idea.. its an individual thing, but overall i think the trend is "not good"

not to mention how it will impact selling the game once its finished? could be a year later, well due for a sale... so the full price is only charged on an unfinished version? im wondering how that will play out
 
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24. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 17:48 PHJF
 
I think (paid) early access is going to do more harm than good to games, in general. There's no expectation level when you're beta testing a product, but when people start forking over for the pleasure... and like it or not, first impressions matter. I played a lot of Starbound over the past two weeks and the core mechanics are so underdeveloped as to have seriously turned me off the game.  
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23. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 17:05 jdreyer
 
nin wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:45:
jdreyer wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:37:
Dirwulf wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:33:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 13:37:
Hand ups those with professional game design experience? Just me? Ok you can all shut up now.

Why are you so afraid to post your credits? I've posted mine.

No one likes admitting they worked on Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.



Hasn't he said before he worked tech support @ EA? I'm not sure that falls under "professional game design experience", but whatever...

Yeah I have no idea. I actually just saw a chance to make a South Park joke and took it. Wasn't actually trying to impugn Cutter.
 
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22. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:45 nin
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:37:
Dirwulf wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:33:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 13:37:
Hand ups those with professional game design experience? Just me? Ok you can all shut up now.

Why are you so afraid to post your credits? I've posted mine.

No one likes admitting they worked on Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.



Hasn't he said before he worked tech support @ EA? I'm not sure that falls under "professional game design experience", but whatever...

 
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21. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:37 jdreyer
 
Dirwulf wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 15:33:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 13:37:
Hand ups those with professional game design experience? Just me? Ok you can all shut up now.

Why are you so afraid to post your credits? I've posted mine.

No one likes admitting they worked on Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.

 
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20. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:36 jdreyer
 
harlock wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 11:21:
i keep hearing this and its worrying i must say:

Not all of the old-school charm is so charming, however, and in particular I am yet to be convinced by the combat. It's turn-based, but so far without the tactical depth to make it interesting rather than simply slow. There are no stances, no targeted hits, each character is only likely to have any skill with a single weapon and toys like grenades are rarer than hens' teeth. Environments also suffer from a general lack of detail or options, with the result that - so far at least - there's not much to do except stand next to cover, take pot-shots and toggle opportunity fire that may or may not actually be taken. Later, having more choices will hopefully make things more interesting.

I agree, what makes TBS combat interesting is the choices. I walk my guy around the corner and see an enemy. Do I:

1. Retreat back around the corner, risking that the enemy might go get reinforcements making the future engagement that much more difficult?
2. Shoot full auto from the hip with a low chance for each shot to hit?
3. Kneel and take a single, higher-accuracy shot?

I like the suggestion that someone will make mods to correct any deficiencies. Sounds like I won't be playing this out of the gate.

Which is fine, I just picked up FO1, FO2, & FO Tactics from gog, so I've got those to scratch my TBS itch for a good long while.
 
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19. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:33 Dirwulf
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 13:37:
Hand ups those with professional game design experience? Just me? Ok you can all shut up now.

Why are you so afraid to post your credits? I've posted mine.
 
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18. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:30 jdreyer
 
J wrote on Dec 16, 2013, 10:52:
Beta review = beview?

Beta review by a bro = broview
 
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17. Re: Morning Previews Dec 16, 2013, 15:01 Silicon Avatar
 
I'm disappointed to hear about the lack of called/targeted shots.

The rest sounded okay or can be made okay with mods.


 
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