Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Op Ed

IncGamers - Steam's refund policy is restrictive, incoherent and in urgent need of change.
It’s a strangely Draconian stance from a company with an otherwise friendly, inclusive face. For the vast majority of purchased items, you need to actually use them for a bit before you can figure out whether they’re broken. I’d argue that the same is true of games. It takes a good few hours to figure out whether a title is a bugged piece of shit, just as it might take a while for stitching to come out of a pair of boots or a dishwasher to explode.

In Valve’s world, you should know before you play a game whether it’s going to function as advertised.

There are some ways to stay informed about a game’s release quality, it’s true. People can read about it on forums or through previews, for example. But the former is only an option if the game is already out, and the latter is subject to both the integrity of the journalist writing about the title and the ‘reach’ his or her publication may have.

View
48 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >

48. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 15:17 nin
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 5, 2013, 15:15:
inFamous Second Son? Already did.

Had that one locked in since June.

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
47. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 15:15 Agent.X7
 
Redmask wrote on Dec 5, 2013, 07:21:
Done with preordering? Everyone says that until the next big game starts up the hype train. I'll put money down that several of you preorder Dragon Age 2, Titanfall and many other things next year. There's nothing wrong with preordering a title, it's your disposable income so whatever the hell you want with it. Just try to reign in your impulse spending a bit for the companies who consistently screw you.

Dragon Age 2? HELL NO. Bioware can't seem to make a decent game after they did DA:O. Wouldn't pre-order unless I get to make out with Claudia Black.

Titanfall? Maybe. Although I will probably not and just get it when it comes out.

inFamous Second Son? Already did.
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
46. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 10:28 Beamer
 
Redmask, I've preordered about four games in my life, all because amazon offered significant discounts. What value does a consumer get from preorders? Shitty in-game skins? With amazon, you can almost always wait until reviews hit to buy and still get it at the same time as a preorderer, if you must. But, other than $20 off, what value does a consumer get? It isn't like this is the late 80s and SMB3 is out of stock everywhere.  
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
45. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 08:32 Ladron3dfx
 
IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON UNTIL DELIVERY OF SUCH CONTENT HAS STARTED OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A TRANSACTION OR OBTAIN A REFUND ONCE DELIVERY OF THE CONTENT HAS STARTED OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED, AT WHICH POINT YOUR TRANSACTION IS FINAL.

Once the download process has started the sale is final.

It's all a bit ridiculous since one needs to download/run the game before discovery of any bugs. Buying a subscription to a game on Steam is like a roll of the dice. Snake eyes or a 7. Pirate

Refunds? All I have ever heard/read are horror stories. Halloween

This comment was edited on Dec 5, 2013, 08:37.
 
Avatar 16050
 
Steamworks
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
44. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 08:24 panbient
 
So I guess politicians aren't the only people entitled to their entitlements.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
43. Re: Op Ed Dec 5, 2013, 07:21 Redmask
 
Done with preordering? Everyone says that until the next big game starts up the hype train. I'll put money down that several of you preorder Dragon Age 2, Titanfall and many other things next year. There's nothing wrong with preordering a title, it's your disposable income so whatever the hell you want with it. Just try to reign in your impulse spending a bit for the companies who consistently screw you.  
Avatar 57682
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
42. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 22:56 eRe4s3r
 
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:21:
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.

Same here, I am done with pre-ordering or buying full price as well.. Rebirth was the last stone.

I don't care about refunds much, because if I pre-order something then I already accept beforehand the fact that it might be a total piece of shit game... but enough is enough. Is why I didn't buy BF4 for full price, haven't bought premium, and will never again buy anything full price.

Except kickstarters of games I'd absolutely love to play. But I pretty much got the games "funded" I want to play... Eternity, Original Sin, Torment 2, Wasteland 2 and... these games from the Psychonauts dudes, always forget their names..

And then of course, star citizens and that elite remake which seems to become what Rebirth should have been. But I didn't fund Elite remake exactly because of my fears about Rebirth.... too many promises broken with space games...
 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
41. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 20:34 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 19:53:
Topevoli wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 17:13:
And just because a company bends over backwards to help out the few impulsive people who buy without researching does not mean it will be a profitable company. JCPenny recently switched to a consumer friendly "lower prices without the sales" model and also promotes No hassle returns. Return anything, even without a receipt... They must be raking in the cash.

It's funny you mention JCPenney, because they did that exactly for the reason Beamer mentioned. It gets people in the store, and hopefully those people will then spend more money.

It's likely people buy something at a different store, then go to JCPenney's to return it. JCPenney obviously realizes this, but reckons that once those people are in the store, hopefully they will shop and buy something else.

When you're struggling to get people to come in, those are the kind of things you do. You reckon it will cost you X million dollars in lost revenue, but you hope you make up for it with extra customers who hopefully buy (X + a lot) in merchandise that you otherwise wouldn't have sold.


And the big mistake was that JCP customers like coupons. It gives them a thrill. It makes them feel they found a bargain. Taking that away from them removed part of what makes shopping fun to them.

Were they getting better deals most of the time? I think the general consensus is "yes." But they were enjoying it less. JCP completely abandoned their core customer, too, which also hurt them.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
40. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 19:54 Creston
 
Krovven wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 19:11:
I could be mistaken, but I believe the EA Origin refund policy only applies to EA published games and not games published by a third party, ie: not Warner Bros or Ubisoft games on Origin.

I think nobody's really sure about that yet, to be honest. I haven't read any reports from anyone who's tested it. Of course, why on earth would you buy something from Origin unless it's an EA published game?
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
39. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 19:53 Creston
 
Topevoli wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 17:13:
And just because a company bends over backwards to help out the few impulsive people who buy without researching does not mean it will be a profitable company. JCPenny recently switched to a consumer friendly "lower prices without the sales" model and also promotes No hassle returns. Return anything, even without a receipt... They must be raking in the cash.

It's funny you mention JCPenney, because they did that exactly for the reason Beamer mentioned. It gets people in the store, and hopefully those people will then spend more money.

It's likely people buy something at a different store, then go to JCPenney's to return it. JCPenney obviously realizes this, but reckons that once those people are in the store, hopefully they will shop and buy something else.

When you're struggling to get people to come in, those are the kind of things you do. You reckon it will cost you X million dollars in lost revenue, but you hope you make up for it with extra customers who hopefully buy (X + a lot) in merchandise that you otherwise wouldn't have sold.

 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
38. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 19:11 Krovven
 
I could be mistaken, but I believe the EA Origin refund policy only applies to EA published games and not games published by a third party, ie: not Warner Bros or Ubisoft games on Origin.

This policy also only came about after the massive cluster fuck of a launch that was SimCity and again only because of the massive shit storm EA was facing from their customers.

On Steam, you can already get refunds with no questions asked for pre-order games that have not yet released. There have also been several examples of games being released in such a poor state that refunds have been granted post-release and sometimes the game pulled entirely from Steam.

From a consumer stand-point...it doesn't pay to buy games at launch any more. Wait a week, month, or even two, see what feedback is and the game will likely be available for half the price anyways. As for the pre-order bonuses, they are often sold as DLC, so you can still get that content (and cheaper) after release.

Would it be nice to see Steam loosen up their refund policy post-release, sure. But it really is kind of unrealistic to do the abuse of it that would ensue.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
37. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 17:32 Beamer
 
Topevoli wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 17:13:
Beamer wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 13:46:
3) Yes. Yes they are. It's good customer service. Do you know what happens to companies with good customer service? Their growth increases. Do you know what happens to companies with bad customer service? They die out. Offering things your customers want, that makes them happy, will lead to more revenues. That increase in revenue is almost certain to outpace the fraud. Or, you can let a few morons completely ruin the experience for everyone else because you're too shortsighted to look at the big picture of increased growth and only look at the easier-to-measure losses from a few morons

Because Steam really has an issue with growth..

And just because a company bends over backwards to help out the few impulsive people who buy without researching does not mean it will be a profitable company. JCPenny recently switched to a consumer friendly "lower prices without the sales" model and also promotes No hassle returns. Return anything, even without a receipt... They must be raking in the cash.

That wasn't customer friendly, that was the problem.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 17:13 Topevoli
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 13:46:
3) Yes. Yes they are. It's good customer service. Do you know what happens to companies with good customer service? Their growth increases. Do you know what happens to companies with bad customer service? They die out. Offering things your customers want, that makes them happy, will lead to more revenues. That increase in revenue is almost certain to outpace the fraud. Or, you can let a few morons completely ruin the experience for everyone else because you're too shortsighted to look at the big picture of increased growth and only look at the easier-to-measure losses from a few morons

Because Steam really has an issue with growth..

And just because a company bends over backwards to help out the few impulsive people who buy without researching does not mean it will be a profitable company. JCPenny recently switched to a consumer friendly "lower prices without the sales" model and also promotes No hassle returns. Return anything, even without a receipt... They must be raking in the cash.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
35. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:45 Agent.X7
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:42:
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:36:
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:21:
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.

I usually wait unless it's something I really want to play. Infinite is a fantastic game for $9.99. Not sure I would be as enthused had I paid $60. (Well, OK, I get mine wholesale for the most part, but still...)

Battlefield? Glitches and all I would still buy the next one day one. Of course, it's pretty much the only multiplayer I play for 2 years.

It all depends on opinion, of course. I ordered the super expensive Reckoning CE. Not sorry at all. Loved the game, loved the cool statue. Most people look at me like I am crazy when I recommend that game.

Everyone seems to love GTA V, I wasn't so hot on it.

What was the topic?


I think I preordered Infinte because Amazon ofered $20 off. Maybe it was only $10. In any case, I preordered it about 5 minutes before Amazon took the preorder down, and I consider it worth every dime.

I bought GTAV for $15 off due to the talk on this board and, honestly, didn't like it much. I thought the SeanBaby takedown of it on Cracked.com earlier this week was spot-on. I just have to accept that I don't really like this series, even though I go nuts for Saints Row. So close, yet so far.

Oh, good. I'm not the only one. I love open world games, but I just cannot get into GTA games. (Although I don't like Saint's either.)
 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
34. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:42 Beamer
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:36:
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:21:
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.

I usually wait unless it's something I really want to play. Infinite is a fantastic game for $9.99. Not sure I would be as enthused had I paid $60. (Well, OK, I get mine wholesale for the most part, but still...)

Battlefield? Glitches and all I would still buy the next one day one. Of course, it's pretty much the only multiplayer I play for 2 years.

It all depends on opinion, of course. I ordered the super expensive Reckoning CE. Not sorry at all. Loved the game, loved the cool statue. Most people look at me like I am crazy when I recommend that game.

Everyone seems to love GTA V, I wasn't so hot on it.

What was the topic?


I think I preordered Infinte because Amazon ofered $20 off. Maybe it was only $10. In any case, I preordered it about 5 minutes before Amazon took the preorder down, and I consider it worth every dime.

I bought GTAV for $15 off due to the talk on this board and, honestly, didn't like it much. I thought the SeanBaby takedown of it on Cracked.com earlier this week was spot-on. I just have to accept that I don't really like this series, even though I go nuts for Saints Row. So close, yet so far.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
33. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:36 Agent.X7
 
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:21:
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.

I usually wait unless it's something I really want to play. Infinite is a fantastic game for $9.99. Not sure I would be as enthused had I paid $60. (Well, OK, I get mine wholesale for the most part, but still...)

Battlefield? Glitches and all I would still buy the next one day one. Of course, it's pretty much the only multiplayer I play for 2 years.

It all depends on opinion, of course. I ordered the super expensive Reckoning CE. Not sorry at all. Loved the game, loved the cool statue. Most people look at me like I am crazy when I recommend that game.

Everyone seems to love GTA V, I wasn't so hot on it.

What was the topic?

 
Avatar 23400
 
Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:29 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:21:
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.

I've been that way for years. I didn't even buy X-COM full price, and I haven't purchased the expansion yet, and I loved that game.

At this point, my backlog is so damn long that it makes no sense for me to buy something unless I plan to play it immediately, as prices always fall. For pre-ordering, I'll only do it if I get it for $20 off on Amazon, which they do occasionally. Otherwise, nothing is hard to buy so why bother?

Steam has definitely ruined me, too, but I also have something like 180 games on Steam and have played approximately 20% of them, so, honestly, I'm spending more than I would if I bought what I planned to play full price, anyway.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
31. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:21 Creston
 
bigCstyle wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 16:14:
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

Yup, that's exactly how to do it. I'm absolutely done with pre-ordering, and unless it's something I'm absolutely dying to play, I'm not buying shit day one anymore either. Too many devs think they can release plain unfinished shit for me to feel like I owe them full price anymore.

I'll buy their games on sale or not at all.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
30. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 16:14 bigCstyle
 
Well... after all the trolling, incompetence, anti-consumer, anti-community, borderline illegal (or more) practices from the gaming industry in general over the years... I no longer pay more than 10 dollars for a game anymore anyway. Its a lot easier to take all this (outright) abuse when I stopped paying more than 10 dollars for a game.

No Refunds? most of these guys would be completely destroyed if valve/steam dint do their part and help protect the revenue stream for these trashcans.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
29. Re: Op Ed Dec 4, 2013, 15:44 Atomic
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 12:56:
Yeah, don't wait for reviews or anything. Don't wait for a sale or anything. And now there's Steam sharing too. So much like you don't get to take a car off the lot for a few days or weeks then bring it back and ask for a refund you have options here too. So I don't see how this is anymore anti-consumer than most any other industry.

HoSpanky wrote on Dec 4, 2013, 13:13:
Tl;dr: stop blaming others for your poor decisions.

+1, both.

It has never occurred to me to return a game. I just don't spend money I can't afford to lose. I rarely spend more than $20 on a game, so if it sucks, shame on me for not making a better decision; lesson learned, move on.
 
Avatar 2718
 
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
48 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo