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Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC "Far Superior" to Next-Gen

"We are proposing small form-factor PCs to be a viable alternative to the next-gen consoles. Enthusiast players want the ultimate games system and that is the PC," NVIDIA sales manager Matt Wright tells MCV. "The PC platform is far superior to any console when it comes to gaming, plus you get all the extra functionality that a computer brings." He elaborates, telling them doesn't have to be just about hardcore gaming: "We want to make PC gaming as simple as possible and we think that it already becoming much more relevant and appealing to casual gamers."

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79. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 6, 2013, 16:24 Beamer
 
BitWraith wrote on Dec 3, 2013, 09:35:
Beamer wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 11:16:
BitWraith wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 10:18:
Tablets are mobile internet machines and nothing more. They're not as useful as phones (which, oddly enough, function as phones AND tablets), and they're not as versatile as laptops.

I have 2 tablets (one I inherited), and neither is particularly useful for anything except playing crappy games, and surfing the internet. Contrary to marketing, I challenge anyone to do actual work on a tablet.

Yeah, which is why enterprise isn't replacing laptops, but how much work does the average computer user do at home? Hell, even banking is easier on mobile/tablets. I can deposit checks via my smartphone. I can't do that via my PC.

I work on PCs at work and at home. The facts are that right now anything office related sucks on tablets - spreadsheets, word processing, database management. I create graphics for a living - right now there is no way to create quality graphics atthe speed I need to create them on a tablet. Hell, just keeping up with personal finances spreadsheet on a tablet would be a nightmare.

Maybe one day, but right now they are squarely in the toy category. The better they get at all of the above, the more they are going to look like laptops.

There's no "maybe," this is the form factor of the immediate future.

But yes, no one is saying that it is currently good for anything office related. But office related work is a tiny fraction of computer time at home. Relative to watching YouTube videos or reading Buzzfeed lists it's absolutely minimal. Since people already have a laptop sitting in a closet somewhere, for that minimal amount of time they go to the laptop. For the rest of the time, they use the tablet.

And, in two or five years, when there's a breakthrough product that has a full PC inside a tablet form factor, that laptop in the closet will never be touched.
 
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78. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 6, 2013, 16:13 Vio
 
Right now the PC is indeed "Far Superior" to Next-Gen consoles and tablets when it comes to gaming, it doesn't matter really. Ultimately people are moving away from it for the sake of convenience.

What the tablet world really need is upgrade-able architecture like the PC currently has, the moment you can build your own tablet at home from of the shelf components is the moment the PC world transfers to the tablet world. Essentially the PC is not dying, rather tablets and phones are turning into mobile PCs. A good example of this is what Microsoft is doing with surface and its KB cover.

Ultimately consoles will get eaten by tablets as well in the long run.

Until then "premium" gaming will remain on PC because it is simply the best place to be in terms of graphics/performance.

The end game I see for high end tablets is a high end device which can use your "PC monitor/Keyboard", TV, Game controllers, whatever the future holds wireless and conveniently based on location context, and do it just as good as PC form factor hardware at the same time.

The PC on the other hand at best I imagine becoming a sort of "server" which services/streams to all the other devices in the home until such a point where the consumer tablets gain equivalent speed to it.

What do you guys think the future of a "console" is long term? We already have people saying the current generation of consoles is the last/second last and we will only see HW upgrades from now on (sounds like it is going to get turned into a PC, except it will be a closed platform). Windows 8's "modern ui" stuff is already trying that with PC, trying to lock it into a closed platform.
 
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77. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 3, 2013, 09:42 SpectralMeat
 
Yeah tablets are far from replacing desktop PCs. Even laptops do not have the power of a desktop PC so I don't see tablets packing the same punch in an even smaller package.

I do like however the way they go with the tablets in schools interactive apps to teach kids, as well as replacing books with digital copies. I think that is the right way to go.
 
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76. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 3, 2013, 09:35 BitWraith
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 11:16:
BitWraith wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 10:18:
Tablets are mobile internet machines and nothing more. They're not as useful as phones (which, oddly enough, function as phones AND tablets), and they're not as versatile as laptops.

I have 2 tablets (one I inherited), and neither is particularly useful for anything except playing crappy games, and surfing the internet. Contrary to marketing, I challenge anyone to do actual work on a tablet.

Yeah, which is why enterprise isn't replacing laptops, but how much work does the average computer user do at home? Hell, even banking is easier on mobile/tablets. I can deposit checks via my smartphone. I can't do that via my PC.

I work on PCs at work and at home. The facts are that right now anything office related sucks on tablets - spreadsheets, word processing, database management. I create graphics for a living - right now there is no way to create quality graphics atthe speed I need to create them on a tablet. Hell, just keeping up with personal finances spreadsheet on a tablet would be a nightmare.

Maybe one day, but right now they are squarely in the toy category. The better they get at all of the above, the more they are going to look like laptops.
 
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75. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 3, 2013, 00:19 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 23:27:
Beamer wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 11:30:
Seriously, think about how pathetic it is that some of you think the technology from the 1990s will always be here, never adapting, never improving, and you're too damn afraid to even realize that new technology will supplant it and, as it grows, become even better for your uses. You're like the damn Unabomber with your fear of new technology. "WHAT I'M USED TO IS BEST AND EVERYONE SHOULD USE IT AND NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE THE END!"

Yeah you don't over read into things at all. I'm saying there is still plenty of market for the PC, see Steam Concurrent users. The only thing all my friends have in common is a cell phone. From there it is all over the place, with again the Laptop coming in second.
It's trends, and honestly, it's just form factors.
The tablet will be a PC. It isn't now, with a few poor selling exceptions. Give it 5 years and it'll be the norm.

Current form factors are trending down. And yeah, Steam has 7 million concurrent users during a Steam sale. Only 1.5 million are actively in games, the rest just "logged in." Modern Warfare 3 on the Xbox had over 3 million logged in and playing for a few months.

Blurps aren't exactly a way to disprove a trend, and the simple trend is that the desktop form factor is on life support because it offers advantages to too small a group to sustain much life, and laptops are actively dropping away as well.
 
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74. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 23:27 HorrorScope
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 11:30:
Seriously, think about how pathetic it is that some of you think the technology from the 1990s will always be here, never adapting, never improving, and you're too damn afraid to even realize that new technology will supplant it and, as it grows, become even better for your uses. You're like the damn Unabomber with your fear of new technology. "WHAT I'M USED TO IS BEST AND EVERYONE SHOULD USE IT AND NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE THE END!"

Yeah you don't over read into things at all. I'm saying there is still plenty of market for the PC, see Steam Concurrent users. The only thing all my friends have in common is a cell phone. From there it is all over the place, with again the Laptop coming in second.
 
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73. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 19:16 Axis
 
Beamer is just one of 'those' guys... He goes from 'PC is dead" to "It's dying" to "It will eventually die" in one long paragraph that eventually just reiterates what we all know that things simply evolve.

For the record I don't ever feel the need to 'block' people. The goofs get banned, the others I either agree with or not. 'Ignore' is a feature for the weak.
 
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Axis
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72. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 11:30 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 11:36:
Beamer wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 23:16:
Desktop PCs fell off a cliff years ago. They're about dead and not coming back. How many Black Friday deals were for desktop PCs? Not many. Why? No one wants them. No one wants to dedicate a corner of their apartment or home for a big machine that can't go anywhere.

There is no doubt some truths to what you say but there is a huge part missing here. It doesn't have to be the hottest device to have a real market. Did you see a lot of different consoles out there? I saw 6, I saw more desktop models at BB than I did consoles, I guess that means they are more popular? No. But even the desktops they are selling at BB aren't gaming units, some could be converted decently with an additional video card, but most shouldn't be.

How well does new egg, tiger, amazon and the rest do in selling cases and mother boards? How do these get counted in?

I can go over to a lot of friends houses and not find a console either. In fact I'll say I could go over to my friends house and sometimes see and sometimes not see the following: Desktop, Laptop, Tablet or Console. The only thing they all have is a cell phone. I would say #2 is a laptop. But anyone that doesn't have a gaming pc or a console isn't a gamer to anywhere near our level, they are fashionable gamers. So one could say any dedicated gaming device is dying, because it's not the norm vs something else more popular I suppose.

The point is hot rods aren't the norm, there are still millions of enthusiasts and there are markets to make money in. And then that is your country, there are other countries, some stronger in using pc's and some still growing.

None of this matters to the fact that PC's are stronger in moving pixels around your screen better than a console. If people choose to use it or not is their choice, doesn't change that fact. And with Steam box, perhaps there is a bit of a change coming. But no matter... it won't be as strong as cell phone sales, so it must be a failure.

1.5 million Android phones are activated each day. WHY DO WE EVEN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE?

I'm not understanding you.
No one is saying anything about models. I'm talking deals. Black Friday is when merchants put things on sale that people want. No one put desktops on sale. Do you know why? Putting a desktop on sale won't get anyone to come to the store because not enough people want desktops.

Yes, Amazon, Tiger, Newegg, etc., sell motherboards. And a lot more. Notice that Newegg and Tiger do daily deals now, Newegg often even selling apparel. Why? Because sales of things like motherboards are dwindling. You're openly calling it niche. Niche does not sustain a business like Newegg. Niche is declining sales. Niche is why, when NVIDIA goes to CES, they only discuss their mobile developments. No lie, in 2012 they did not mention the PC. In 2009, it was all the mentioned. Why?

Because PC sales are dwindling. Axis can block me if he'd like, but that Forbes article I linked to gives hard numbers - year over year it's falling like a rock.

Yes, there are things PCs do better than tablets, but so what? People already HAVE their laptops (and not desktops, which were destroyed by laptops 5 years ago.) They sit in the corner, gathering dust until something comes up that they are needed for. Most people use computers at home primarily for consumption, though, and use devices designed solely for consumption.

You final point about cellphones makes you hard to argue with. You're confusing so many different points and arguments together that you're incoherent. Here, I'll break it down for you in numbers:

1) Desktop PC sales have been falling rapidly since 2005. They were supplanted by laptops
2) Laptop PC sales have been falling rapidly since 2011. They were supplanted by tablets
3) Most users don't do any kind of power use, at least not often, so tablets fit their needs for the vast majority of their usage time, and since they can use them while relaxing on the couch, they prefer them
4) The amount of "power" needed for power usage is also falling, so whereas people used to replace their PCs every 3 years or less, people are now keeping them around much longer, which also leads to far fewer sales
5) The amount of people with enough power in their systems to do any kind of PC gaming is falling rapidly
6) Consoles, while weak, are still more powerful than most systems you can spec out at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc., which is where most people still buy their systems
7) Tablets are rapidly gaining in power, with Apple rumored to be working on their own version of the Surface Pro - a full fledged laptop in a tablet form factor. Just connect it to a docking station with a monitor, keyboard and mouse and it's a desktop. Connect it to a keyboard and it's a laptop
8) NVIDIA and AMD repeatedly show that PC components are less and less a key part of their business as they shift R&D and revenue to other areas


I'm sure if we go back 40 years people will have said "man, you're dumb. My terminal can do infinitely more than these 'PCs' IBM is building. Why the heck are they even bothering when their server business is so robust?" Those people were unable to look at trends and only looked at the current state. Yes, today, PCs can be more powerful. In actuality, most PCs sold can't do nearly the graphics consoles can do. In actuality, tablets can do most of what PCs are used for just fine. And they're rapidly growing in power and ability.

The desktop sitting in the corner of the room, with a room dedicated to computing, is going to be as obsolete a concept as having a computer the size of a refrigerator. It's sad that so many people here claim to be huge tech people but can't see this. It's sad that so many people here are terrified of a form factor. It's sad that, rather than getting excited about what the future may hold, and rather than come up with ideas about how tablets can adapt to fit your needs and desires, you sit around claiming that nothing will ever change and the model that took hold in the damn 1990s will hold true for the remainder of your lives.

Seriously, think about how pathetic it is that some of you think the technology from the 1990s will always be here, never adapting, never improving, and you're too damn afraid to even realize that new technology will supplant it and, as it grows, become even better for your uses. You're like the damn Unabomber with your fear of new technology. "WHAT I'M USED TO IS BEST AND EVERYONE SHOULD USE IT AND NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE THE END!"
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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71. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 11:16 Beamer
 
BitWraith wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 10:18:
Tablets are mobile internet machines and nothing more. They're not as useful as phones (which, oddly enough, function as phones AND tablets), and they're not as versatile as laptops.

I have 2 tablets (one I inherited), and neither is particularly useful for anything except playing crappy games, and surfing the internet. Contrary to marketing, I challenge anyone to do actual work on a tablet.

Yeah, which is why enterprise isn't replacing laptops, but how much work does the average computer user do at home? Hell, even banking is easier on mobile/tablets. I can deposit checks via my smartphone. I can't do that via my PC.
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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70. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 10:18 BitWraith
 
Tablets are mobile internet machines and nothing more. They're not as useful as phones (which, oddly enough, function as phones AND tablets), and they're not as versatile as laptops.

I have 2 tablets (one I inherited), and neither is particularly useful for anything except playing crappy games, and surfing the internet. Contrary to marketing, I challenge anyone to do actual work on a tablet.
 
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69. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 09:48 WaltC
 
Steele Johnson wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 13:53:
Most homes don't even have a pc anymore. Even businesses are started to incorporate tablet apps into their business rather than using laptops. So the only market these guys are in right now are old-school pc enthusiasts who are gamers. So their argument is moot. Those of who care already know, and those of us who dropped laptop/desktop for tablet don't care. Most homes who have tablets and smart phones will buy a console for gaming rather than "reverting back" to the 'ol pc. That's if they even care to play games on their tv than their tablet or phone.

Interesting, as I don't know anyone living in a home anywhere in which no PC exists...;) (I know, you pulled that statistic out of...the box your console came in, right?) BTW, people who "drop" PCs for tablets were never actually PC users in the first place, were they? There are no replacements for PCs being manufactured currently, contrary to popular mythology. And it may go over your head, but laptops with real keyboards are still far more useful/desirable than tablets with added keyboards, covers, and all of those other pieces that you have to buy to try and get close to a laptop's functionality.

What's the point? A tablet is only a good buy for someone who just doesn't need a decent keyboard or a personal computer. It doesn't begin to serve as a replacement for one ( no more than cell phones can replace laptops, etc.) I think that by far tablets will be purchased by people who already have at least one PC because, again like cell phones, tablets are not replacements for PCs. Never were.








 
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It is well known that I do not make mistakes--so if you should happen across a mistake in anything I have written, be assured that I did not write it!
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68. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 09:32 WaltC
 
Creston wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 13:18:
Slinkycatz wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 11:57:
All this PC power is pointless if it has to struggle with the pool of molasses that is DirectX.

Doesn't the xbone use DirectX as well?

Heh...;) If D3d is molasses, then OpenGL is a tar pit ...;) Funny! If Mantle works, it will make things even better. To be molasses, D3d seems to handle UltraHD to Eyefinity to 4k gaming pretty well. Gosh, that's right--consoles struggle with the molasses of 1080P, don't they?...;)

 
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67. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 2, 2013, 09:28 ldonyo
 
Of course Nvidia says that, they don't have any hardware in the new consoles. If they did, they'd being saying the new consoles are where things are best.  
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66. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 1, 2013, 16:15 Axis
 
Shh guys, lets all get back on that PC IS DEAD bandwagon. I was able to identify so many opinionated dumbasses it made filtering the bullshit so much easier.  
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Axis
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65. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 1, 2013, 15:34 Vio
 
PropheT wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 03:36:
....
What country are you in? At least in the U.S., the PS4 is $400 and the XB1 $500; I haven't seen anywhere outside of Craigslist/Ebay that anyone is asking for more than those regular retail prices.

....

There are some price variations regionally, but I assumed they were the same with the older console generations as well.
South Africa, thats basically $630 for a console 'announced' to retail at $400 or to put it in other terms, it's retailing for more than the PS3 originally retailed here at launch.

By comparison "Xbox360 250gig Black Console + Forza 4 (Xbox360)" retails for about $330 here.
 
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64. Re: Into the Black Dec 1, 2013, 13:23 nin
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 12:06:
Isn't this a repeat of news from a new days ago?

I believe they made a similar quote a few months ago (and we beat the horse then)...briefly searched for it, but "nvidia" gets a lot of hits here.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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63. Re: Into the Black Dec 1, 2013, 12:06 Fibrocyte
 
Isn't this a repeat of news from a new days ago?  
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62. Re: Into the Black Dec 1, 2013, 12:03 Simon Says
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 21:02:
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 16:09:
Benchmarks. Many here are sitting on systems with like games and we are 1080 and above, way past 60 w/everything on.

If you use top end systems as your comparison maybe, but it doesn't reflect the average system. And running the same game at a higher res with better fps is still close.

Ah common, my PC is 3 years old going on 4 now. Was midrange/budget when I assembled it. I tried CoD Ghosts and BF4 on it, with a few minor tweaks I got them running with everything on but tesselation at 1080p/60.

I was actually apprehensive my old, single, gpu wouldn't cut it. Nope, it did so flawlessly on a system with a much higher overhead and with less optimizations.

I don't know where you pulled that top-end argument from, but it's obviously bullshit.
 
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61. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 1, 2013, 11:51 HorrorScope
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 00:23:
I agree there are some things that are tricky to do for PC such as HUDs and such that need to scale at different resolutions and such, but if a dev plans correctly, they can save themselves most of that work.

I'm playing through Arkham Asylum again, with all the options turned up on my PC, and the game looks spectacular. 1080P, 100 FPS, sharp textures, PhysX, specular lighting, HDR, etc. etc. For a game more than 4 years old it looks amazing and it's light years beyond what it looked like on a 360 or PS3.

To your first, to me it's on the dev's fault if they do mess up. For example don't offer FOV, different rez's, vsynch and others features. The basics have been set and some still fail at it, I don't blame the PC because it is hard, too many one-man teams (oxymoron) can make a full game and offer all the settings basics. That is the price of admission imo, you want to dev for it, then you know what the basics need to be. I'm looking at every game FPS/3PS in the past 5 years that didn't have a FOV adjustment, it's you, not me.

As to the second. Batman, exactly. As said we can go back 25 years and still play games and depending on the technology used and the community it garnered, it can even be much enhanced now. Does this ever really get the credit it deserves? No, not at all, but it's real and I bet everyone here has taken advantage of that at least once now. Hell Skyrim with mods alone is enough. Definitely the mouse is enough. And if somehow you don't agree with the first two then I submit the Porn card, game fucking over! lol
 
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60. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 1, 2013, 11:45 HorrorScope
 
MonkeySpank wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 03:49:
nVidia wants a rebound girlfriend after consoles dumped it and PC is it.

True, they are saying what they are saying because how the market is now. But at the same time since they don't have skin in the game on the other end, they are free imo to clearly state truths now. If they said it or not is really irrelevant, because it is what it is no matter what they said. If they said, wow consoles now have PC's beat, then they'd just be wrong.

This comment was edited on Dec 1, 2013, 11:51.
 
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