Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 23:01:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 22:36:Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:28:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:02:Taskeen wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:56:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:42:
Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights. And Russia isn't exactly a paragon of freedom and human rights.
Snowden's problem is that he isn;t a traitor, but 90% of the people who swear to uphold our Constitution ARE traitors, and they are ready to squash him like a bug to protect their power.
Example of Double Standards in International LAW
United States - Holds Asylum of a known CIA paid terrorist bomber Luis Pasada Carriles. Pasada was recruited by the CIA and BOMBED a cuban airliner, killing 76 innocent people in 1976.
Venezuela - Demands that the U.S. extradite Pasada for trial, but the U.S. refuses.
Venezuela said if Snowden were to reside in their country, they would only hand him over on the grounds that the U.S. hands over a known protected terrorists like Pasada that actually committed a real crime.
Look up history, the CIA and the U.S. government for YEARS subverted South American countries, going as far as installing dictators that went on killing rampages of their citizens. So I'd say the South American countries, at their core now, are highly resilient to illegal espionage by the U.S.
So that should give you a clue why South American countries, in the past, had governments that abused Human Rights.
Do you follow the international news much? All the governments in South America still have human rights abuse going on.
Brazil, while claiming to eradicate wage-slaves, has freed less than 2000 of the millions of them working on sugar plantations. Why? Because POLITICIANS. Police frequently torture people, and nothing is really done about it.
Venezuela? Yeah, a living paradise on earth. Chavez never once violated the human rights guarantees that HIS OWN FUCKING CONSTITUTION GURANTEED THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE. Oh, wait. Yes he did, every damn day of his rule. Don't forget the awesomeness that is Caracas, a city where you are three times more likely to be murdered than in Cartel run Juarez Mexico. Number 6 in the world for muder rate baby, yeah!
Well that's two down, just 12 more to go until your generalization is correct.
How about instead of your useless sarcasm you give us an example of a wonderful human rights beacon in South America.
I'm not the one making generalizations about an entire continent.
Besides, it depends on your definition of "respects human rights" and the time period. I could probably point to examples in the histories of any country on the globe where they didn't "respect human rights".
But I guess I'll play your game... What about Uruguay since 1984 (30 years)?
Besides, it depends on your definition of "respects human rights" and the time period. I could probably point to examples in the histories of any country on the globe where they didn't "respect human rights".
Beamer wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 22:43:
Snowden pretty clearly shows the issue with any kind of whistleblower protection system. Its so subjective. How can you blow the whistle on something top secret and not be labeled treasonous? And how different would it be if it was a corporation and not the government?
his best hope is that a Republican is elected president and pardons him. A Dem won't, not for at least a decade, makes the party look bad. I don't see a Republican doing it, either, but better chance of it.
1badmf wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 22:10:
i know snowden broke the law and is technically a traitor, but i don't see how anyone can conclude he's a coward. he stood up for the country he believes in, kissed his homeland and most of his loved ones good bye probably never to see them again. it's hard for me to comprehend the courage it took to knowingly ruin his life like that. in the final analysis i'm certain history will conclude that he was a patriot in the finest tradition of our founding fathers who voiced his dissent against a government that got way out of control for the best of intentions.
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 22:37:Yosemite Sam wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 20:30:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:41:Yosemite Sam wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 16:06:Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights.
Really? ... wow... just, wow.
And...still waiting for you to name ONE.
... You are gay.
Welcome to ignore, for the ignorant!
Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights.
You are gay.
still waiting for you to name ONE.
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 22:36:Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:28:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:02:Taskeen wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:56:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:42:
Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights. And Russia isn't exactly a paragon of freedom and human rights.
Snowden's problem is that he isn;t a traitor, but 90% of the people who swear to uphold our Constitution ARE traitors, and they are ready to squash him like a bug to protect their power.
Example of Double Standards in International LAW
United States - Holds Asylum of a known CIA paid terrorist bomber Luis Pasada Carriles. Pasada was recruited by the CIA and BOMBED a cuban airliner, killing 76 innocent people in 1976.
Venezuela - Demands that the U.S. extradite Pasada for trial, but the U.S. refuses.
Venezuela said if Snowden were to reside in their country, they would only hand him over on the grounds that the U.S. hands over a known protected terrorists like Pasada that actually committed a real crime.
Look up history, the CIA and the U.S. government for YEARS subverted South American countries, going as far as installing dictators that went on killing rampages of their citizens. So I'd say the South American countries, at their core now, are highly resilient to illegal espionage by the U.S.
So that should give you a clue why South American countries, in the past, had governments that abused Human Rights.
Do you follow the international news much? All the governments in South America still have human rights abuse going on.
Brazil, while claiming to eradicate wage-slaves, has freed less than 2000 of the millions of them working on sugar plantations. Why? Because POLITICIANS. Police frequently torture people, and nothing is really done about it.
Venezuela? Yeah, a living paradise on earth. Chavez never once violated the human rights guarantees that HIS OWN FUCKING CONSTITUTION GURANTEED THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE. Oh, wait. Yes he did, every damn day of his rule. Don't forget the awesomeness that is Caracas, a city where you are three times more likely to be murdered than in Cartel run Juarez Mexico. Number 6 in the world for muder rate baby, yeah!
Well that's two down, just 12 more to go until your generalization is correct.
How about instead of your useless sarcasm you give us an example of a wonderful human rights beacon in South America.
NewMaxx wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 21:24:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:46:
And don't get me started on the CIA. Those guys have been royal cockups from the start. Let's put Castro in power! Whoops. Let's train Bin Laden and his Mujaheddin! Whoops. They are basically responsible for almost every terrorist act that has haunted us since WWII.
I suggest people read The Rise and Fall of the British Empire. You'll quickly realize that the US scrambled to assist and eventually take unwanted control over many of the declining colonial states that arose from European imperialism, particularly from our friends in the UK. The two examples you mention are symptomatic of pretty much how the UK (and the French, for that matter) handled colonialism up until the 1960's. The problems that exist today are largely because of those actions, they'd be far worse if the US hadn't stepped in out of necessity due to the Cold War (which Europe essentially begged for).
Seriously, read some history, people. I know it is en vogue to bash the imperial US, despite the fact that the British Empire held a quarter of the world's land and population less than a century ago. They also supported oil interests in Nigeria and royally screwed up Egypt, Iraq, etc., etc. France screwed up Vietnam, etc. The world was a mess before the US even got involved and would be much worse had it been left to anarchy (considering cannibalism was rampant in Africa until colonization, for example).
Is Snowden a traitor? He certainly committed treason - do the ends justify the means? It would be impossible for him to come back to the United States. However, turning again to history, emigres were common throughout the political age and are nothing new. There may come a time when he could return, and even afar he can be influential.
Yosemite Sam wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 20:30:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:41:Yosemite Sam wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 16:06:Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights.
Really? ... wow... just, wow.
And...still waiting for you to name ONE.
... You are gay.
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:28:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:02:Taskeen wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:56:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:42:
Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights. And Russia isn't exactly a paragon of freedom and human rights.
Snowden's problem is that he isn;t a traitor, but 90% of the people who swear to uphold our Constitution ARE traitors, and they are ready to squash him like a bug to protect their power.
Example of Double Standards in International LAW
United States - Holds Asylum of a known CIA paid terrorist bomber Luis Pasada Carriles. Pasada was recruited by the CIA and BOMBED a cuban airliner, killing 76 innocent people in 1976.
Venezuela - Demands that the U.S. extradite Pasada for trial, but the U.S. refuses.
Venezuela said if Snowden were to reside in their country, they would only hand him over on the grounds that the U.S. hands over a known protected terrorists like Pasada that actually committed a real crime.
Look up history, the CIA and the U.S. government for YEARS subverted South American countries, going as far as installing dictators that went on killing rampages of their citizens. So I'd say the South American countries, at their core now, are highly resilient to illegal espionage by the U.S.
So that should give you a clue why South American countries, in the past, had governments that abused Human Rights.
Do you follow the international news much? All the governments in South America still have human rights abuse going on.
Brazil, while claiming to eradicate wage-slaves, has freed less than 2000 of the millions of them working on sugar plantations. Why? Because POLITICIANS. Police frequently torture people, and nothing is really done about it.
Venezuela? Yeah, a living paradise on earth. Chavez never once violated the human rights guarantees that HIS OWN FUCKING CONSTITUTION GURANTEED THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE. Oh, wait. Yes he did, every damn day of his rule. Don't forget the awesomeness that is Caracas, a city where you are three times more likely to be murdered than in Cartel run Juarez Mexico. Number 6 in the world for muder rate baby, yeah!
Well that's two down, just 12 more to go until your generalization is correct.
NewMaxx wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 21:24:Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:46:
And don't get me started on the CIA. Those guys have been royal cockups from the start. Let's put Castro in power! Whoops. Let's train Bin Laden and his Mujaheddin! Whoops. They are basically responsible for almost every terrorist act that has haunted us since WWII.
I suggest people read The Rise and Fall of the British Empire. You'll quickly realize that the US scrambled to assist and eventually take unwanted control over many of the declining colonial states that arose from European imperialism, particularly from our friends in the UK. The two examples you mention are symptomatic of pretty much how the UK (and the French, for that matter) handled colonialism up until the 1960's. The problems that exist today are largely because of those actions, they'd be far worse if the US hadn't stepped in out of necessity due to the Cold War (which Europe essentially begged for).
Seriously, read some history, people. I know it is en vogue to bash the imperial US, despite the fact that the British Empire held a quarter of the world's land and population less than a century ago. They also supported oil interests in Nigeria and royally screwed up Egypt, Iraq, etc., etc. France screwed up Vietnam, etc. The world was a mess before the US even got involved and would be much worse had it been left to anarchy (considering cannibalism was rampant in Africa until colonization, for example).
Is Snowden a traitor? He certainly committed treason - do the ends justify the means? It would be impossible for him to come back to the United States. However, turning again to history, emigres were common throughout the political age and are nothing new. There may come a time when he could return, and even afar he can be influential.
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:46:
And don't get me started on the CIA. Those guys have been royal cockups from the start. Let's put Castro in power! Whoops. Let's train Bin Laden and his Mujaheddin! Whoops. They are basically responsible for almost every terrorist act that has haunted us since WWII.
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:41:Yosemite Sam wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 16:06:Haha, name me a South American country that respects human rights.
Really? ... wow... just, wow.
And...still waiting for you to name ONE.
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 19:48:NegaDeath wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:19:WaltC wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 17:45:
Snowden had taken a sworn oath not to do exactly what he did.
Oath to his countrymen overrides oath to his government.
Could not agree more. If the government is doing something wrong and you know about it how does an oath to the government protect the country?