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Morning Consolidation

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61. Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 2, 2013, 11:05 Axis
 
Doesn't matter what these games look like except for shallow comparisons unless there's some new tech that truly pushes technology (which consoles don't do). It's all about the speed.

30 frames per second is only for 'console' players. Most PC gamers would never consider any game 'hardcore' if it runs at 30 fps regardless of platform.

60 frames per second is accepted and playable, but its only at 80 that games are virtually indistinguishable from gaming past CRT days of unlimited frames, where smooth gameplay shines.

Which is why you should always shoot for the lower resolutions on your 60 FPS monitor that allow you 75hz, or get a new one that does 120 or 144. The only 'real' difference that gives you a huge advantage outside of pure skill is when you are pushing 80 fps+ and seeing it.
 
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Yours truly,

Axis
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60. Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 2, 2013, 10:00 Dades
 
Neither version looks as good as the PC version but the Xbox One version is noticeably worse. This is no surprise since the Xbox One is underpowered compared to its own console counterparts, let alone a PC and worse it reserves resources for dumb things like Kinect.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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59. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 2, 2013, 01:41 Beamer
 
IGN has a somewhat decent comparison video of B4 up. Only in a few scenes are the next-gen significantly better, for the most part it just looks like a game with vs without PhysX. Not a huge surprise, look at the CoD games that launched this generation and how much they look like PS2/Xbox games.

The Xbone very clearly looks better than the PS4, too. It gets an early victory. Probably will be somewhat tied to start, with the Xbone just falling behind as time goes on, but only being really noticeable in exclusive games. In this generation I'd say the 360 looks better in almost all multi-platform games (or, at worst, they look the same) but PS3 exclusives look better than Xbox exclusives (haven't played Last of Us yet, but I hear it looks amazing.)
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
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58. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 23:27 UnderLord
 
Creston wrote:
Except reports are popping up that the ESRAM is terrible, and is the main reason why the Xbone is getting its ass handed to it by the PS4 on a pure performance level.

I remember when Bitboys Oy touted their wonderful 1999 EDRAM-based graphics cards (which turned out to be vaporware!) before ATI were lured into buying the company in 2006.
Guess why AMD/ATI hasn't bought out a wonderful EDRAM/ESRAM graphics card in the intervening 7 years...
 
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57. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 14:39 Shineyguy
 
Creston wrote on Nov 1, 2013, 13:35:
Shineyguy wrote on Nov 1, 2013, 10:28:
You forget about the Xbox One's ESRAM. It's more than fast enough to swap info in and out for the GPU that is integrated to the CPU.

Except reports are popping up that the ESRAM is terrible, and is the main reason why the Xbone is getting its ass handed to it by the PS4 on a pure performance level.

It's something that developers will get a hang of as time progresses. The memory could potentially slow things down, but I don't think it will make that large of a difference.

We really just have to wait and see how everything shakes out over the next year for both consoles.
 
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56. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 13:35 Creston
 
Shineyguy wrote on Nov 1, 2013, 10:28:
You forget about the Xbox One's ESRAM. It's more than fast enough to swap info in and out for the GPU that is integrated to the CPU.

Except reports are popping up that the ESRAM is terrible, and is the main reason why the Xbone is getting its ass handed to it by the PS4 on a pure performance level.
 
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55. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 12:56 Axis
 
Well some haven't figured out you simply won't get 'nextgen' for a sub $500 spec box -- not even taking into consideration controllers, cables, or any additions on top, even at a loss.

Meanwhile, I've got some killer titles dirt cheap while everyone was hoping Wii U was a bust. I hope they keep thinking that with Christmas coming up!
 
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Axis
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54. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 10:28 Shineyguy
 
UnderLord wrote on Nov 1, 2013, 00:37:
Never forget that they are both memory-crippled next gen consoles.
They use shared CPU and GPU memory, much like Intel on-board graphics but made by AMD.
If main memory had even enough bandwidth for the CPU alone, CPUs wouldn't require THREE LEVELS of cache to keep the core fed.
The Xbox One will never compete in graphics or CPU performance with the PS4 because it uses 8GB of DDR3 RAM whereas the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM.
And pretty soon everyone will see for themselves that this is true.
The developers do their work on consoles on beefy PCs - "You've never seen most games in their most powerful form anyway (when we work on them on our ninja dev PCs in 1080p 120fps with all the antialiasings and stuff turned on for shits and giggles)."

You forget about the Xbox One's ESRAM. It's more than fast enough to swap info in and out for the GPU that is integrated to the CPU.

Regardless, the GPU on both consoles isn't all that powerful anyway. Certainly it's more powerful than the previous consoles, but it's not as huge a leap as people were expecting, specifically it's an AMD APU, and not something that has been custom designed specifically for the new console generation.
 
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53. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 01:08 HorrorScope
 
UnderLord wrote on Nov 1, 2013, 00:37:
Never forget that they are both memory-crippled next gen consoles.
They use shared CPU and GPU memory, much like Intel on-board graphics but made by AMD.
If main memory had even enough bandwidth for the CPU alone, CPUs wouldn't require THREE LEVELS of cache to keep the core fed.
The Xbox One will never compete in graphics or CPU performance with the PS4 because it uses 8GB of DDR3 RAM whereas the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM.
And pretty soon everyone will see for themselves that this is true.
The developers do their work on consoles on beefy PCs - "You've never seen most games in their most powerful form anyway (when we work on them on our ninja dev PCs in 1080p 120fps with all the antialiasings and stuff turned on for shits and giggles)."

Don't you think the DDR5 ram in the PS4 should keep it in the ballpark vs the PC?

Is Mantle an option at all for the next-gens? Or is that just going to be something else that makes the PC pull away?
 
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52. Re: Call of Duty and Battlefield are higher-res on PS4 than Xbox One Nov 1, 2013, 00:37 UnderLord
 
Never forget that they are both memory-crippled next gen consoles.
They use shared CPU and GPU memory, much like Intel on-board graphics but made by AMD.
If main memory had even enough bandwidth for the CPU alone, CPUs wouldn't require THREE LEVELS of cache to keep the core fed.
The Xbox One will never compete in graphics or CPU performance with the PS4 because it uses 8GB of DDR3 RAM whereas the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM.
And pretty soon everyone will see for themselves that this is true.
The developers do their work on consoles on beefy PCs - "You've never seen most games in their most powerful form anyway (when we work on them on our ninja dev PCs in 1080p 120fps with all the antialiasings and stuff turned on for shits and giggles)."
 
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51. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 23:12 Redmask
 
If you basically never play games on your PS3, then there is no reason to upgrade to a PS4, regardless of whether it has media streaming or not.

If you just want a fully feature media sharing device, there are other options that are much cheaper than a PS4.

He said he uses it occasionally for games which means he's still playing them from time to time. There's nothing wrong with wanting consoles to have a little versatility for media functions, this sort of integration in living room set top boxes is becoming more common because consumers desire the convenience and simplicity. I could get a Roku box to play Netflix, a Sonos system for music and several different devices to play games but I prefer to have it in one system when possible to save power, remotes, money and etc. Sony has said they will consider re-adding the functionality which satisfies me for now.

This comment was edited on Oct 31, 2013, 23:17.
 
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50. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 22:39 Krovven
 
Asmo wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 19:34:
Ceribaen wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 10:36:
Seeing as how my PS3 does DLNA and music playing and such. I think I'll wait for these features to be re-enabled before buying.

Basically by removing them, I've seen quite a few people like me looking at their ps3 and deciding there's no reason to upgrade in the near future.

Bingo, my PS3 only get's used occasionally for games, but mostly for media serving. PS3 media server + PS3 + 1 gig wired network + bluetooth remote control = very easy, very reliable media server...

I'm not sure why people are so blasť about chopping out features which really create a rounded system which increases it's value. I already have 3 computers in the computer room(mine, wife, son), a server & a PS3, I don't want to add a media PC to the collection if I replace the 3 with a 4...

If you basically never play games on your PS3, then there is no reason to upgrade to a PS4, regardless of whether it has media streaming or not.

If you just want a fully feature media sharing device, there are other options that are much cheaper than a PS4.

 
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49. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 21:04 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 20:24:
ForgedReality wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:40:
And if you ever listened on a quality set of speakers, you would find that it sounds like absolute shit and isn't at all worth it when local, high-quality encodings would easily blow it away in terms of audio quality and ease of use.

That's what I find. Even buying the songs online many aren't really good enough to be put into a good home or car system. Ripping from the CD seems best still. Where's Neil Young's 300 idea at?

For walking to work, listening on my work laptop, or putting as background music at a party, it's perfect.

For other things, I have a fairly robust vinyl collection that makes mp3s sound like crap.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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48. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 20:24 HorrorScope
 
ForgedReality wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:40:
And if you ever listened on a quality set of speakers, you would find that it sounds like absolute shit and isn't at all worth it when local, high-quality encodings would easily blow it away in terms of audio quality and ease of use.

That's what I find. Even buying the songs online many aren't really good enough to be put into a good home or car system. Ripping from the CD seems best still. Where's Neil Young's 300 idea at?
 
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47. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 19:34 Asmo
 
Ceribaen wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 10:36:
Seeing as how my PS3 does DLNA and music playing and such. I think I'll wait for these features to be re-enabled before buying.

Basically by removing them, I've seen quite a few people like me looking at their ps3 and deciding there's no reason to upgrade in the near future.

Bingo, my PS3 only get's used occasionally for games, but mostly for media serving. PS3 media server + PS3 + 1 gig wired network + bluetooth remote control = very easy, very reliable media server...

I'm not sure why people are so blasť about chopping out features which really create a rounded system which increases it's value. I already have 3 computers in the computer room(mine, wife, son), a server & a PS3, I don't want to add a media PC to the collection if I replace the 3 with a 4...
 
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46. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 17:52 Krovven
 
Tunein on PS3 just launched the other day (for Vita next week).

tunein-for-ps3-and-ps-vita/

Spotify is not available in Canada apparently.

MP3's a hassle? Lazy much? Download torrent, put in folder, add to iTunes, add to iPhone playlist. All takes a few minutes.

 
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45. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 17:37 Agent.X7
 
Verno wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:40:
Hilarious how you provide nothing to back up your statements, and yet the facts laugh in your face at how wrong you are. 5400 rpm doesn't cut it. Sorry.

You typed a three line troll, it's not like there was much there to work with. The spindle rate of the drive has little correlation to the visuals, slow drives manage just fine with a cache and platter density is just as important, not to mention other factors. If you had talked about the APU instead you might have had a point but even then after seeing barely "next gen" footage of many upcoming games I don't really see how its detrimental to developers or gamers at the moment. This type of stuff matters a lot more down the road when developers are hitting the limits of the hardware but that's years away. For some perspective Rockstar managed GTA 5 with consoles having less than a gigabyte of memory, they now have 8GB. The limits of development these days are more related to budget than to hardware constraints.

Also just FYI most of the people buying a console at launch are core consumers, the casuals tend to come later with lower prices. I think the only exception to that in the past decade was the Wii. There's also many gamers here who own both a console and a gaming PC because the consoles get many exclusive games they deem worthwhile. The more you know!

And knowing is half the battle!
 
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44. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 16:52 Verno
 
ForgedReality wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:40:
Hilarious how you provide nothing to back up your statements, and yet the facts laugh in your face at how wrong you are. 5400 rpm doesn't cut it. Sorry.

You typed a three line troll, it's not like there was much there to work with. The spindle rate of the drive has little correlation to the visuals, slow drives manage just fine with a cache and platter density is just as important, not to mention other factors. If you had talked about the APU instead you might have had a point but even then after seeing barely "next gen" footage of many upcoming games I don't really see how its detrimental to developers or gamers at the moment. This type of stuff matters a lot more down the road when developers are hitting the limits of the hardware but that's years away. For some perspective Rockstar managed GTA 5 with consoles having less than a gigabyte of memory, they now have 8GB. The limits of development these days are more related to budget than to hardware constraints.

Also just FYI most of the people buying a console at launch are core consumers, the casuals tend to come later with lower prices. I think the only exception to that in the past decade was the Wii. There's also many gamers here who own both a console and a gaming PC because the consoles get many exclusive games they deem worthwhile. The more you know!
 
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43. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 16:40 ForgedReality
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:09:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 15:55:
Beamer wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 13:55:
Heck, I haven't even listened to an mp3 in years.

Making it sound like that is common. What are people using these days for music? I thought is was nearly al MP3/Digital formats.

Spotify.
It has about 90% of what I want, for free.
And if you ever listened on a quality set of speakers, you would find that it sounds like absolute shit and isn't at all worth it when local, high-quality encodings would easily blow it away in terms of audio quality and ease of use.


Verno wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 13:01:
> Loaded scenario
> Ironically incorrect
> A ForgedReality Post

Calling people on Bluesnews casual is also pretty amusing.
Hilarious how you provide nothing to back up your statements, and yet the facts laugh in your face at how wrong you are. 5400 rpm doesn't cut it. Sorry.
 
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42. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 31, 2013, 16:26 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:18:
Beamer wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 16:09:
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 15:55:
Beamer wrote on Oct 31, 2013, 13:55:
Heck, I haven't even listened to an mp3 in years.

Making it sound like that is common. What are people using these days for music? I thought is was nearly al MP3/Digital formats.

Spotify.
It has about 90% of what I want, for free.

Oh, I already had 100% of what I want, already paid for and on the devices I use. I get that is a popular option but I can't think just plain having the songs on your own sticks/devices is some type of dinosaur. Digital music in any format is the norm, any one particular format, that I don't know about.

So does PS4 have Spotify?

It's kind of a dinosaur, because it's a hassle. You have to have the songs, make sure they're properly labeled, transfer them to new devices, worry about storage limits on some devices (I have 50GB of mp3s on a drive somewhere, I do not have a 50GB phone), purchase anything new you want, purchase any song you have an itch to hear but never actually bought because you don't like it that much, etc.

Not sure if the PS4 has Spotify.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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