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Thief Dropping XP System

The Eidos Montreal Community Website has a community Q&A about the upcoming Thief reboot, answering questions from eager fans of the franchise (thanks PC Gamer). The topic this time around is the removal of the planned XP system from the game, a decision the developers explain while dropping a hint they may have something positive to say about QTEs in the future:

Why was it removed?

Nic:
At first, we wanted to outline the progression of the player with XP, but it was reducing our motivation to steal. The main goal of a thief should be to gain loot. Garrett is already the Master Thief, so we saw no need to have XP as a core mechanic.

Daniel: We wanted to put emphasis on stealing things, and put the rewards on the stealing aspect. We want to allow the player to decide the "how to" we shouldn't judge how the player wants to achieve their goal, only reward them for achieving it.

The reaction from fans to the "Headshot XP" pop-up in the E3 gameplay demo was fairly negative. Did that have an impact on the decision to remove it from the game?

Daniel: Fans might be surprised how often the devs go to the forum to see how things are perceived in the "real world". This feedback is extremely valuable to us, so as you can imagine, the consistent reaction to the XP system was something that indicated we needed to revisit some design decisions.

Nic: It is more a design decision to add to our economy system and entice the player to steal more. But yes, the E3 reaction was right, rewarding killing like that was wrong for a Master Thief.

How will Garrett progress through the game without XP?

Nic:
The goal is to use gold to buy elements to progress, to encourage the player to steal. The player will be able to choose how to spend money, for more stealthy or more aggressive tools.

Daniel: It was always possible to play without using XP, like it is still possible to play through the game without killing anyone or even spending any coin (though it isn't going to be easy!)

Thanks guys, this was very instructive. And wait until you hear what they have to say about QTEs...

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59 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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19. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:35 Raptor
 
Nice change for the positive, but as already said before me then it doesn't justify some idiot thinking it was a good idea in the first place.

And whoever wrote this is still not familiar with the "real world"

Garrett is already the Master Thief, so we saw no need to have XP as a core mechanic.

Well you actually did see it as a game mechanic, a strong enough one to need a popup telling the player about it actually and reward a headshot separately not just kills or subdues.
It were the fans who saw it as complete evil, you thought it was cool.
If only they had the guy from UT going "Headshot" in the trailer, it would have worked well as a Thief parody.

We wanted to put emphasis on stealing things, and put the rewards on the stealing aspect

The goal is to use gold to buy elements to progress, to encourage the player to steal

without killing anyone or even spending any coin

Well how do you buy elements(?) to progress if you don't need to spend any coin?

for more stealthy or more aggressive tools

Garret - Master thief, part time murderer depending on the mood.
 
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18. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:26 Jerykk
 
So I can see stupid console players trying to mantle up something and missing and alerting guards, or just hitting the jump button by accident, getting impatient after 5 minutes and saying this game sux.

Stupid consoles. Ruin everything for the rest of us.

I'm pretty sure the decision to remove jumping has nothing to do with consoles. Plenty of first-person console games have jumping. Hell, CoD, the epitome of consolitis, has jumping.
 
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17. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:20 Jedi Master
 
Dark Forces is available pretty cheap. Got it on a Steam Sale a couple of years back in a big SW pack along with Jedi Knight:DF2, Mysteries of the Sith, JK2: Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, and maybe some others.

I just finished replaying it a few months ago. The graphics are so low-res as to be an impediment at times (is that an enemy, a wall, or a painted backdrop??) but other than that it's still quite good.

Why can't Disney have EA remake that using the Frostbite engine? Same missions, same story, same levels, just make it look 20 years newer.
 
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16. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:12 KS
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:42:
I never understood why the hell Thief needed an XP system, beyond the obvious "Well, other games have an XP system!!!" bullshit.

As for what they have to say about QTEs, I fully expect it to be: "After this game, you will LOVE them! We've treated them in a whole new fashion, and sprinkled them liberally throughout! QTEs are the future!"

Rolleyes

Aren't these basically Dragon's Lair moves? You get a brief window of time to jiggle the joystick thus and so, and one of two outcomes plays?

Dragon's Lair, as in 30 years ago?

I guess they are there so the dev can sit there with Conan or Jimmy and laugh uproariously as Lara Croft gets impaled in the neck. Hahaha we have good times buy our thing.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 12:18.
 
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15. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:05 Tanto Edge
 
I'll never understand how we can go from HR to this.  
Avatar 13202
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0&t=0m24s
http://www.youtube.com/user/tantoedge
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14. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 11:54 Jivaro
 
InBlack wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:47:
Fuck. Now I want to play Dark Forces....man that was a great game...

Yes, yes it was. Loved that game. Not very often a shooter or a Star Wars game generates that kind of enthusiasm for me anymore. Probably a combination of me getting older and the games not being quite as bold in their design.
 
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13. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 11:37 Ratty
 
Quinn wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 11:24:
Couldn't have put it better myself, which is why I quote you instead.

Also, I think they've put to much thought in the literal title (thief). Not sure if it's me, but I never played the original games because "OMGZ IZ SO AWSUM TO ST34LZ!". It was the character Garrett and the character of the game; the mood, the environment, etc., and the stealthy gameplay ofc. It wasn't the stealing of silver plates.
I couldn't have put THAT better myself. You are spot on.

Here's the old trailer for Thief 2. Sigh. What a difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvNvvdqy-Tk

The whole jump debacle reminds me of when the demo for Thief 2 came out. Beautiful demo. I played it many many times. It was a City rooftops mission. When the game was released they had added a lot more to the level and tightened up the spaces between rooftops because players were falling to their death a lot and the devs said that was no fun so they made the whole thing less perilous. Even though falling wasn't a problem for me the change was totally fine. It didn't dumb down the level or anything.

So I can see stupid console players trying to mantle up something and missing and alerting guards, or just hitting the jump button by accident, getting impatient after 5 minutes and saying this game sux.

Stupid consoles. Ruin everything for the rest of us.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 11:46.
 
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12. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 11:24 Quinn
 
Yakubs wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:21:
Oh, look, out-of-touch developers backpedaling. The fact of the matter is, if these people thought getting Headshot XP was a good idea in a Thief game then I can't even begin to imagine the rest of the horrors they've designed into this franchise rape.

Couldn't have put it better myself, which is why I quote you instead.

Also, I think they've put to much thought in the literal title (thief). Not sure if it's me, but I never played the original games because "OMGZ IZ SO AWSUM TO ST34LZ!". It was the character Garrett and the character of the game; the mood, the environment, etc., and the stealthy gameplay ofc. It wasn't the stealing of silver plates.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 11:32.
 
Avatar 57334
 
"Moo," she said.
And I trembled.
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11. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 10:47 InBlack
 
I remember the first time I was able to jump in a FPS game. I think it was Dark Forces. It was fucking amazing. Almost as cool as being able to look up and down. That was back in (checks wikipedia) 1995....

Fuck. Now I want to play Dark Forces....man that was a great game...
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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10. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 10:43 Verno
 
It's a good move and nice to see them listen to some feedback.  
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Playing: Fire Emblem, Diablo 3, Bravely Default
Watching: The Machine, After the Dark, Devils Due
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9. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 10:42 Creston
 
I never understood why the hell Thief needed an XP system, beyond the obvious "Well, other games have an XP system!!!" bullshit.

As for what they have to say about QTEs, I fully expect it to be: "After this game, you will LOVE them! We've treated them in a whole new fashion, and sprinkled them liberally throughout! QTEs are the future!"

Rolleyes
 
Avatar 15604
 
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8. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 10:13 InBlack
 
nin wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:17:
Just give me a goddamn jump button, and I'll give it a chance...


Hahahah, priceless!
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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7. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:44 Slashman
 
gray wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:05:
More back-scrabbling, seems to be very common these days (180/SimCity). I'm not confident it will be enough though, the core design seems to be fundamentally off with this one. All they had to do was make the same damn game, so sad.

No they didn't have to make the same game. But that doesn't mean they had to make some kind of action/superhero game. Thief - Arkham City of Origins isn't what the the franchise needed to turn into.

We already have Dishonored.
 
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6. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:39 Necrophob
 
nin wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:17:
Just give me a goddamn jump button, and I'll give it a chance...


Perhaps one day consoles will be advanced enough to allow for this "jump" feature.

Also, anyone else seen/played Beyond: Two Souls? The entire game is a quicktime event.
 
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5. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:31 ItBurn
 
MajorD wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:25:
nin wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:17:
Just give me a goddamn jump button, and I'll give it a chance...


Yeah, that has to be 'one' of the more bigger bonehead moves!


Real thieves NEVER jump.
 
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4. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:25 MajorD
 

nin wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:17:
Just give me a goddamn jump button, and I'll give it a chance...


Yeah, that has to be 'one' of the more bigger bonehead moves!

 
Avatar 55780
 
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3. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:21 Yakubs
 
Oh, look, out-of-touch developers backpedaling. The fact of the matter is, if these people thought getting Headshot XP was a good idea in a Thief game then I can't even begin to imagine the rest of the horrors they've designed into this franchise rape.  
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2. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:17 nin
 

Just give me a goddamn jump button, and I'll give it a chance...

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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1. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 09:05 gray
 
More back-scrabbling, seems to be very common these days (180/SimCity). I'm not confident it will be enough though, the core design seems to be fundamentally off with this one. All they had to do was make the same damn game, so sad.

I notice the PR dude has left the business, along with the many others before him.
 
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59 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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