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Thief Dropping XP System

The Eidos Montreal Community Website has a community Q&A about the upcoming Thief reboot, answering questions from eager fans of the franchise (thanks PC Gamer). The topic this time around is the removal of the planned XP system from the game, a decision the developers explain while dropping a hint they may have something positive to say about QTEs in the future:

Why was it removed?

Nic:
At first, we wanted to outline the progression of the player with XP, but it was reducing our motivation to steal. The main goal of a thief should be to gain loot. Garrett is already the Master Thief, so we saw no need to have XP as a core mechanic.

Daniel: We wanted to put emphasis on stealing things, and put the rewards on the stealing aspect. We want to allow the player to decide the "how to" we shouldn't judge how the player wants to achieve their goal, only reward them for achieving it.

The reaction from fans to the "Headshot XP" pop-up in the E3 gameplay demo was fairly negative. Did that have an impact on the decision to remove it from the game?

Daniel: Fans might be surprised how often the devs go to the forum to see how things are perceived in the "real world". This feedback is extremely valuable to us, so as you can imagine, the consistent reaction to the XP system was something that indicated we needed to revisit some design decisions.

Nic: It is more a design decision to add to our economy system and entice the player to steal more. But yes, the E3 reaction was right, rewarding killing like that was wrong for a Master Thief.

How will Garrett progress through the game without XP?

Nic:
The goal is to use gold to buy elements to progress, to encourage the player to steal. The player will be able to choose how to spend money, for more stealthy or more aggressive tools.

Daniel: It was always possible to play without using XP, like it is still possible to play through the game without killing anyone or even spending any coin (though it isn't going to be easy!)

Thanks guys, this was very instructive. And wait until you hear what they have to say about QTEs...

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59 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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39. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 19:45 jacobvandy
 
Yosemite Sam wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 16:43:
InBlack wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:47:
I remember the first time I was able to jump in a FPS game. I think it was Dark Forces. It was fucking amazing. Almost as cool as being able to look up and down. That was back in (checks wikipedia) 1995....

Fuck. Now I want to play Dark Forces....man that was a great game...

Eh it was ok, I think it being the first FPS in the ST universe made it more then it was... Now Outcast\Academy were sweet games, the whole FPS with jedi powers and lightsabers was done perfectly in those titles... damn I wish they would do another one like those.

Best part: putting in the console command to turn on dismemberment. You know, like should be happening when you put a lightsaber through... anything.
 
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38. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 19:38 Rattlehead
 
Fantaz wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 16:25:
Quinn wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 15:22:
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 13:17:
For those wanting to get classic Thief joneses, try The Dark Mod, a free, standalone Thief mod of the Doom 3 engine.

That's all nice and cool, for sure, but my interest for that mod got absolutely and brutally obliberated the moment I realized these are fan-made maps. No matter how awesome the gameplay or mood, if I'm not following a story.. ergo there's no "higher purpose/goal", I have no motivation to play. I can't even feel the pathetic pride of being better than other players in some form of PVP.

+1

This is why I can't play MMOs and MOBAs... games need a story and an ending!
*looks at post, then looks at signature* not sure if serious....
 
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37. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 19:19 mlw
 
Re: "dropping a hint they may have something positive to say about QTEs in the future"

The only positive would be to say, there are NO QTEs in our Thief game. No, just no.
 
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36. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 18:28 Fletch
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 12:26:
I'm pretty sure the decision to remove jumping has nothing to do with consoles. Plenty of first-person console games have jumping. Hell, CoD, the epitome of consolitis, has jumping.

Nothing to do with consoles? Really? How many first-person PC games don't allow jumping? I think it was a combination of controller limitations, and the limited imaginations of designers making maps for millions of easily-confused console gamers. Hand-holding seems to be a pretty huge part of their design concept.
 
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35. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 17:49 Fletch
 
Only console-minded numbnuts like these would even consider an XP system for a Thief game. More affirmation of my decision to not go anywhere near this game. BTW, whoever mentioned Dark Mod in a previous thread, thanks. I'm loving it.
"Fans might be surprised how often the devs go to the forum to see how things are perceived in the "real world.""
Going to the forums is a long way from giving a shit what is being said. At least they admit they don't live in the real world. I wonder if their world actually has PC gamers.
 
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34. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 16:43 Yosemite Sam
 
InBlack wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:47:
I remember the first time I was able to jump in a FPS game. I think it was Dark Forces. It was fucking amazing. Almost as cool as being able to look up and down. That was back in (checks wikipedia) 1995....

Fuck. Now I want to play Dark Forces....man that was a great game...

Eh it was ok, I think it being the first FPS in the ST universe made it more then it was... Now Outcast\Academy were sweet games, the whole FPS with jedi powers and lightsabers was done perfectly in those titles... damn I wish they would do another one like those.
 
Avatar 21539
 
PSN id PR345, PST - D3, GTA5, Borderlands 2, Grid 2, GTA4, BoS, RDR, GT5, COD WaW, KZ2, RAGE, Dirt2, MC LA, Skate2, LBP, Dead Nation - Wanna jam? Hit me up on PSN, Mention Blues News.

CIV4 MOD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326525
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33. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 16:38 Cram
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 13:17:
That's all nice and cool, for sure, but my interest for that mod got absolutely and brutally obliberated the moment I realized these are fan-made maps. No matter how awesome the gameplay or mood, if I'm not following a story.. ergo there's no "higher purpose/goal", I have no motivation to play. I can't even feel the pathetic pride of being better than other players in some form of PVP.

+2
 
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32. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 16:37 Squirmer
 
Fantaz wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 12:39:
I think they need to delay this game another year because it sounds like there needs to be a complete overhaul to save this game...
It already has been overhauled multiple times over the years, with new lead developers coming on board etc. That's what makes this so farcical. They had a formula set down by previous games in the series, but they've tried so hard to 'modernize' it.
 
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31. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 16:25 Fantaz
 
Quinn wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 15:22:
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 13:17:
For those wanting to get classic Thief joneses, try The Dark Mod, a free, standalone Thief mod of the Doom 3 engine.

That's all nice and cool, for sure, but my interest for that mod got absolutely and brutally obliberated the moment I realized these are fan-made maps. No matter how awesome the gameplay or mood, if I'm not following a story.. ergo there's no "higher purpose/goal", I have no motivation to play. I can't even feel the pathetic pride of being better than other players in some form of PVP.

+1

This is why I can't play MMOs and MOBAs... games need a story and an ending!
 
Avatar 571
 
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30. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 15:22 Quinn
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 13:17:
For those wanting to get classic Thief joneses, try The Dark Mod, a free, standalone Thief mod of the Doom 3 engine.

That's all nice and cool, for sure, but my interest for that mod got absolutely and brutally obliberated the moment I realized these are fan-made maps. No matter how awesome the gameplay or mood, if I'm not following a story.. ergo there's no "higher purpose/goal", I have no motivation to play. I can't even feel the pathetic pride of being better than other players in some form of PVP.
 
Avatar 57334
 
"Moo," she said.
And I trembled.
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29. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 14:31 Cutter
 
Hitman Derpsolution. These guys need to remake this with this game.

 
Avatar 25394
 
James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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28. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:28 MajorD
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 13:17:
For those wanting to get classic Thief joneses, try The Dark Mod, a free, standalone Thief mod of the Doom 3 engine.

NICE! It has been a while since I have toyed around with this mod, but it looks to have made great strides since. This team is awesome and I am glad they are still going strong.

Wow, it HAS been a while since I've messed with The Dark Mod, as it is it's own stand alone game as of recent and no longer requires Doom 3 to play it. Check out the video, "What is The Dark Mod?" I know what I'll be doing after work today. ;-)

For those Thief 1/Gold fans, a forthcoming HD texture mod is shaping up nicely, and tentatively due to release this December, is Thief Gold HD Texture mod.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 13:41.
 
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27. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:25 Ratty
 
Jerykk wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 12:26:
So I can see stupid console players trying to mantle up something and missing and alerting guards, or just hitting the jump button by accident, getting impatient after 5 minutes and saying this game sux.

Stupid consoles. Ruin everything for the rest of us.

I'm pretty sure the decision to remove jumping has nothing to do with consoles. Plenty of first-person console games have jumping. Hell, CoD, the epitome of consolitis, has jumping.
I'm being sorta facetious anyway, kinda, but in those games you mention you don't alert guards if you jump accidently. It's not that it's hard to jump on a console, obviously. It's that with the controller it's too easy to jump accidently or miss a mantle.
 
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26. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:19 Tanto Edge
 
It was always possible to play without using XP, like it is still possible to play through the game without killing anyone or even spending any coin (though it isn't going to be easy!)

An entire mechanic, proven useless. Yeah, this games in great hands.
 
Avatar 13202
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0&t=0m24s
http://www.youtube.com/user/tantoedge
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25. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:17 jdreyer
 
For those wanting to get classic Thief joneses, try The Dark Mod, a free, standalone Thief mod of the Doom 3 engine.  
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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24. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:11 jdreyer
 
Jivaro wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 11:54:
InBlack wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:47:
Fuck. Now I want to play Dark Forces....man that was a great game...

Yes, yes it was. Loved that game. Not very often a shooter or a Star Wars game generates that kind of enthusiasm for me anymore. Probably a combination of me getting older and the games not being quite as bold in their design.

It was great for its time partly because it had a great design, but also because there was almost nothing else like it except for Doom, of which it was basically a clone. I don't know if it would hold up today. Jedi knight was so much better, IMO.

I still have my original DF CD ROM...
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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23. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 13:05 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:42:
I never understood why the hell Thief needed an XP system, beyond the obvious "Well, other games have an XP system!!!" bullshit.

As for what they have to say about QTEs, I fully expect it to be: "After this game, you will LOVE them! We've treated them in a whole new fashion, and sprinkled them liberally throughout! QTEs are the future!"

Rolleyes

I think that they could have implemented an XP system. Every level improves his bow accuracy or range, lockpicking skill, etc. But they should have SUBTRACTED XP for killing. The dude's a THIEF!
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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22. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:58 KS
 
If only they had the guy from UT going "Headshot" in the trailer, it would have worked well as a Thief parody.

Hehe, I wrote a descriptive parody some months back in a Thief thread about him leaping around like Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed and bam! Stab a guard in the top of the head with a dagger.

Their game design has achieved Poe's Law level.
 
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21. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:44 Cutter
 
The young console kiddies who never played the originals will love this. Everyone who played the originals will hate it. I hope Eidos gets fucking excoriated on this one. Do not fuck with the classics!
 
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James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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20. Re: Thief Dropping XP System Oct 17, 2013, 12:39 Fantaz
 
I think they need to delay this game another year because it sounds like there needs to be a complete overhaul to save this game...  
Avatar 571
 
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59 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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