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179. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 17, 2013, 11:42 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 08:35:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 23:38:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 22:56:
well said. I actually agree with this. So for example, something like the failure that is the headstart program you would be alright finding a better solution then?

I'd be in favor of figuring out why the early gains from the program seem to be lost in later grades, and then doing something to fix that. Something is being done right to get those gains to begin with. Something is being done wrong to lose them. We've been falling behind other countries for decades now. We really can't afford to let our education system get worse.

Maybe it's because 3 year olds have this retention problem at that age. Which makes sense to begin with. they're 3 year olds ffs barely even cognitive or developed. Headstart is a total waste of money.

Well, your citations and scientific rigor have me convinced... Rolleyes

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 08:35:
Our education system isn't going to get much better no matter how much money you throw at it. Take it from someone who deals with a school system and it's administration almost daily, it's all political, most of these teachers could care less about actually teaching these kids anything but they love their union benies.

For an example, the school system wanting to waste 100 grand on a new network just so they can have sole control over it rather than use the infrastructure the town build for them already, only because they don't want to play ball and adhere to any sort of security when it comes to said network.

And I'm sure it happens everywhere not just small Mass towns. The Department of Education is prolly another huge waste of money we could trim down majorly.
I'm in favor of finding ways to evaluate teachers and make them more accountable. Most of the ways I've heard from both sides are pretty lacking though. I've had some really lousy teachers before, and I've had some really good ones. Most were somewhere in between. We need ways to make these determinations that won't be shooting ourselves in the foot. I don't think we have those ways yet. Tests alone don't cut it.
 
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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178. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 11:36 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:46:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:15:
My bias aside, you know I'm not wrong. I think if anyone seriously studied Obama, his reactions to things, his smugness, they'd realize he's the text book definition for a narcissist.

I'm not getting into your weirdo conspiracy theories and obsessions. I can speak well enough for myself so don't try to interject your shit on me or my posts.

/shrug It's pretty damn obvious honestly. I've also in my life time have never seen a president trash the US Constitution essentially in both actions and words and get cheers for it.
 
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177. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 10:46 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 10:15:
My bias aside, you know I'm not wrong. I think if anyone seriously studied Obama, his reactions to things, his smugness, they'd realize he's the text book definition for a narcissist.

I'm not getting into your weirdo conspiracy theories and obsessions. I can speak well enough for myself so don't try to interject your shit on me or my posts.
 
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176. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 10:15 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:21:
Yeah it's a shame the liberal media won't actually blame Obama for anything. That's why the public perception is "congress' fault"
Obama's just as much at fault, he's proven he's a terrible leader and unwilling to work with the other guys, in the same breath blaming the other guys for not compromising. They're both guilty.

Yeah no, don't agree with that assessment at all and you burned up your credit with me after that mountain of shitposting.

HorrorScope and Redmask SS stuff

Social security isn't unfunded as someone else said, we directly fund it and it's on track to be solvent until about 2033. The real issue is that it was devised when we weren't expecting people to live as long as they do now. The weak economy and other shortfalls mean that only about 60-75% of benefits could be paid out after 2033 unless something is done. At the same time the retirement age has lost any meaning and most corporations are eroding pensions through offshore labour and other pressures. Most people are going to be heavily dependent on their social security benefits. Finally the retirement age itself is disappearing rapidly, many people won't be able to afford to stop working in 20 years but will still need their SS benefits. No one really wants to address the crisis though because its far off and will cost people voters, any measures will likely be a tax increase or a benefit cut to something like the cost of living adjustment.

Personally I don't think deficit reduction should start with SS but there ARE adjustments that need to be made if we want to keep it going for future generations. We also need to start taking a hard look at how conventional retirements are starting to fall off and what we can do to address that as I believe corporations are getting away with murder in this country and its starting to have a drastic impact on the middle class.

My bias aside, you know I'm not wrong. I think if anyone seriously studied Obama, his reactions to things, his smugness, they'd realize he's the text book definition for a narcissist.
 
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175. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 09:21 Verno
 
Yeah it's a shame the liberal media won't actually blame Obama for anything. That's why the public perception is "congress' fault"
Obama's just as much at fault, he's proven he's a terrible leader and unwilling to work with the other guys, in the same breath blaming the other guys for not compromising. They're both guilty.

Yeah no, don't agree with that assessment at all and you burned up your credit with me after that mountain of shitposting.

HorrorScope and Redmask SS stuff

Social security isn't unfunded as someone else said, we directly fund it and it's on track to be solvent until about 2033. The real issue is that it was devised when we weren't expecting people to live as long as they do now. The weak economy and other shortfalls mean that only about 60-75% of benefits could be paid out after 2033 unless something is done. At the same time the retirement age has lost any meaning and most corporations are eroding pensions through offshore labour and other pressures. Most people are going to be heavily dependent on their social security benefits. Finally the retirement age itself is disappearing rapidly, many people won't be able to afford to stop working in 20 years but will still need their SS benefits. No one really wants to address the crisis though because its far off and will cost people voters, any measures will likely be a tax increase or a benefit cut to something like the cost of living adjustment.

Personally I don't think deficit reduction should start with SS but there ARE adjustments that need to be made if we want to keep it going for future generations. We also need to start taking a hard look at how conventional retirements are starting to fall off and what we can do to address that as I believe corporations are getting away with murder in this country and its starting to have a drastic impact on the middle class.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 09:29.
 
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174. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 09:17 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 17, 2013, 09:11:
Prez wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:56:

While I admire the strength of conviction of these men, they are purely idealists, not great leaders. A leader understands he has to give something in order to get something; how to compromise and when to stand your ground and when to pack it in and live to fight another day. Uncompromising men are often easier to admire than compromising men, but it is the compromising ones that get things done for the general welfare of the people. They also know how to separate personal religious values from all-encompassing legislation that affects the whole nation. They do not try to legislate their personal moral code upon everyone as they understand that not everyone believes as they do but everyone still has the same right of pursuit of their own happiness.

Well said Prez. Look at what this latest fiasco has cost us. Who came out looking worse? Most polls say the GOP. What was achieved? Nothing. A lot of money and time wasted, not to mention political capital and public opinion.

Yeah it's a shame the liberal media won't actually blame Obama for anything. That's why the public perception is "congress' fault"
Obama's just as much at fault, he's proven he's a terrible leader and unwilling to work with the other guys, in the same breath blaming the other guys for not compromising. They're both guilty.
 
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173. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 09:15 RollinThundr
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 20:47:
Redmask wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:31:
I would start with a comprehensive overhaul of social security

What would you suggest a person that makes 100K per for a lifetime... what should they get back per month?

I mean we get something right? We've been paying into it for decades.

Or do we just get out money back and end it?

Or do we just lose it, it was taken out of every check for decades as "this is your retirement security blanket, you budget for it, they do send out a report to you yearly on what to expect. So is all that up in smoke on nothing I did at all except being forced to pay into it?

I will go postal if SS is removed and not every last $ isn't sent back to me. This isn't an entitlement, this has been a deal.

This, what do we pay into it for? This isn't a hand out Redmask, it's not an entitlement, you pay into social security, it's not welfare.
 
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172. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 17, 2013, 09:11 Verno
 
Prez wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:56:

While I admire the strength of conviction of these men, they are purely idealists, not great leaders. A leader understands he has to give something in order to get something; how to compromise and when to stand your ground and when to pack it in and live to fight another day. Uncompromising men are often easier to admire than compromising men, but it is the compromising ones that get things done for the general welfare of the people. They also know how to separate personal religious values from all-encompassing legislation that affects the whole nation. They do not try to legislate their personal moral code upon everyone as they understand that not everyone believes as they do but everyone still has the same right of pursuit of their own happiness.

Well said Prez. Look at what this latest fiasco has cost us. Who came out looking worse? Most polls say the GOP. What was achieved? Nothing. A lot of money and time wasted, not to mention political capital and public opinion.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2013, 09:19.
 
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171. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 17, 2013, 08:35 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 23:38:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 22:56:
well said. I actually agree with this. So for example, something like the failure that is the headstart program you would be alright finding a better solution then?

I'd be in favor of figuring out why the early gains from the program seem to be lost in later grades, and then doing something to fix that. Something is being done right to get those gains to begin with. Something is being done wrong to lose them. We've been falling behind other countries for decades now. We really can't afford to let our education system get worse.

Maybe it's because 3 year olds have this retention problem at that age. Which makes sense to begin with. they're 3 year olds ffs barely even cognitive or developed. Headstart is a total waste of money.

Our education system isn't going to get much better no matter how much money you throw at it. Take it from someone who deals with a school system and it's administration almost daily, it's all political, most of these teachers could care less about actually teaching these kids anything but they love their union benies.

For an example, the school system wanting to waste 100 grand on a new network just so they can have sole control over it rather than use the infrastructure the town build for them already, only because they don't want to play ball and adhere to any sort of security when it comes to said network.

And I'm sure it happens everywhere not just small Mass towns. The Department of Education is prolly another huge waste of money we could trim down majorly.
 
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170. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 16, 2013, 23:38 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 22:56:
well said. I actually agree with this. So for example, something like the failure that is the headstart program you would be alright finding a better solution then?

I'd be in favor of figuring out why the early gains from the program seem to be lost in later grades, and then doing something to fix that. Something is being done right to get those gains to begin with. Something is being done wrong to lose them. We've been falling behind other countries for decades now. We really can't afford to let our education system get worse.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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169. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 16, 2013, 22:56 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:48:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:35:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:20:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 13:26:
Fun fact: the US isn't even in the top 30 for debt as a % of GDP.

It's standard for debt whiners - they complain about the absolute value without actually putting it relative to anything (numbers alone are meaningless unless they're anchored to something. % of GDP is a good one. $ per capita is a good one. Absolute value is not a good one.) And none of them can ever explain why the debt will hurt us. In general, they complain about things like China owning us (without understanding how much China owns and why it isn't really a pressing concern.)

No one will say our debt is good. No one will say we shouldn't make broad moves to stem it from growing. But it isn't our most pressing concern. That debt has next to no impact on our domestic economy. That debt doesn't contribute to our country being a crappier place to live. Let's focus on things that do.

Except you offer zero ideas on how to keep the debt from growing, I've yet to see one person that I would consider a liberal by their opinions posted, ever offer once instance of how to trim our debt aside from gutting the military. Just once I'd love to see what things you asshats would actually trim.
it seems to me that democrats want big government, they obviously love being told what to do as well by said big government. Because they never make the argument that a slimmer more efficient government would save money in the long run. Instead they want the opposite. Blows my mind.

Lol @ the hyperbole "gutting the military". You get annoyed at others for ad hom and such, but apparently you aren't any better at discussing things than they are. Do you have to straw-man any position you don't like?

There's plenty that can be done to trim down defense spending without coming anywhere near "gutting" it. You don't seem to be interested in that conversation though.

Anyway, I need to go read up on this apparent resolution and see what happened.

Regardless, cuts aren't the only solution.
There are two ways to get spending under control:
1) Spend Less
2) Earn More

#1 can be a big issue. When you spend less you run the risk of earning less. The comparisons of a world economy to a household are poor, but to put it in those terms, you need to make sure you aren't choosing to cut back on food, which makes you lazier, which makes you work less hours or perform worse at work.

#2 is usually perceived, by idiots, as "raise taxes." Because idiots think equations only have one variable. There are other options, like finding ways to raise the average income. If taxes remain the same (and they shouldn't, as they're near historical lows and our economy has been strongest when they've been near highs), but the amount we're taxing increases, then earnings increase.

So rather than being complete and total morons that think you can only do one thing, we should be:
1) Evaluating the impact of every single thing we spend on
2) Immediately divert funds from things which have no true positive economic impact
3) Increase funds to things that have the most positive economic impact


We can't be dumbasses about it, but if you listen to some in this thread, we would be. Some in this thread are the types that, if they were in charge of a city, would immediately shut down the museums because they don't bring in cash, ignoring that the museums bring in tourists and that shutting the museums would dwindle the supply of tourists that are ultimately bringing significantly more to the city than the museums cost to operate.

well said. I actually agree with this. So for example, something like the failure that is the headstart program you would be alright finding a better solution then?
 
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168. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 16, 2013, 20:50 HorrorScope
 
LibertyOrDeath wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:49:
Many have warned people about Obamacare as well.

Right 10's of millions have because 35% of the population hates whatever the other party is championing. The dems will also state the program isn't what it is supposed to be, because they had no choice to remove things from it since they don't have control of all three houses. Perhaps someday they will and they'll put all the parts back in. Perhaps they'll lose all branches and hmmmm... I wonder what the repubs will do then?
 
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167. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 16, 2013, 20:47 HorrorScope
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:31:
I would start with a comprehensive overhaul of social security

What would you suggest a person that makes 100K per for a lifetime... what should they get back per month?

I mean we get something right? We've been paying into it for decades.

Or do we just get out money back and end it?

Or do we just lose it, it was taken out of every check for decades as "this is your retirement security blanket, you budget for it, they do send out a report to you yearly on what to expect. So is all that up in smoke on nothing I did at all except being forced to pay into it?

I will go postal if SS is removed and not every last $ isn't sent back to me. This isn't an entitlement, this has been a deal.
 
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166. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 16, 2013, 17:57 Beamer
 
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Cruz.  
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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165. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 16, 2013, 17:56 Prez
 
LibertyOrDeath wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:49:
The drones will believe anything. With that said, some of us knew what this president was and is. Many have warned people about Obamacare as well. I do not support DNC or the RNC. Put your money and backing behind candidates that say, "we the people" a lot! Cruz/Lee/Paul

Stop getting your news through agenda filtered media. Add these senators to your Facebook page and look how they vote.

While I admire the strength of conviction of these men, they are purely idealists, not great leaders. A leader understands he has to give something in order to get something; how to compromise and when to stand your ground and when to pack it in and live to fight another day. Uncompromising men are often easier to admire than compromising men, but it is the compromising ones that get things done for the general welfare of the people. They also know how to separate personal religious values from all-encompassing legislation that affects the whole nation. They do not try to legislate their personal moral code upon everyone as they understand that not everyone believes as they do but everyone still has the same right of pursuit of their own happiness.

This comment was edited on Oct 16, 2013, 18:02.
 
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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164. No subject Oct 16, 2013, 17:49 LibertyOrDeath
 
The drones will believe anything. With that said, some of us knew what this president was and is. Many have warned people about Obamacare as well. I do not support DNC or the RNC. Put your money and backing behind candidates that say, "we the people" a lot! Cruz/Lee/Paul

Stop getting your news through agenda filtered media. Add these senators to your Facebook page and look how they vote.
 
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163. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 16, 2013, 17:48 Beamer
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:35:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:20:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 13:26:
Fun fact: the US isn't even in the top 30 for debt as a % of GDP.

It's standard for debt whiners - they complain about the absolute value without actually putting it relative to anything (numbers alone are meaningless unless they're anchored to something. % of GDP is a good one. $ per capita is a good one. Absolute value is not a good one.) And none of them can ever explain why the debt will hurt us. In general, they complain about things like China owning us (without understanding how much China owns and why it isn't really a pressing concern.)

No one will say our debt is good. No one will say we shouldn't make broad moves to stem it from growing. But it isn't our most pressing concern. That debt has next to no impact on our domestic economy. That debt doesn't contribute to our country being a crappier place to live. Let's focus on things that do.

Except you offer zero ideas on how to keep the debt from growing, I've yet to see one person that I would consider a liberal by their opinions posted, ever offer once instance of how to trim our debt aside from gutting the military. Just once I'd love to see what things you asshats would actually trim.
it seems to me that democrats want big government, they obviously love being told what to do as well by said big government. Because they never make the argument that a slimmer more efficient government would save money in the long run. Instead they want the opposite. Blows my mind.

Lol @ the hyperbole "gutting the military". You get annoyed at others for ad hom and such, but apparently you aren't any better at discussing things than they are. Do you have to straw-man any position you don't like?

There's plenty that can be done to trim down defense spending without coming anywhere near "gutting" it. You don't seem to be interested in that conversation though.

Anyway, I need to go read up on this apparent resolution and see what happened.

Regardless, cuts aren't the only solution.
There are two ways to get spending under control:
1) Spend Less
2) Earn More

#1 can be a big issue. When you spend less you run the risk of earning less. The comparisons of a world economy to a household are poor, but to put it in those terms, you need to make sure you aren't choosing to cut back on food, which makes you lazier, which makes you work less hours or perform worse at work.

#2 is usually perceived, by idiots, as "raise taxes." Because idiots think equations only have one variable. There are other options, like finding ways to raise the average income. If taxes remain the same (and they shouldn't, as they're near historical lows and our economy has been strongest when they've been near highs), but the amount we're taxing increases, then earnings increase.

So rather than being complete and total morons that think you can only do one thing, we should be:
1) Evaluating the impact of every single thing we spend on
2) Immediately divert funds from things which have no true positive economic impact
3) Increase funds to things that have the most positive economic impact


We can't be dumbasses about it, but if you listen to some in this thread, we would be. Some in this thread are the types that, if they were in charge of a city, would immediately shut down the museums because they don't bring in cash, ignoring that the museums bring in tourists and that shutting the museums would dwindle the supply of tourists that are ultimately bringing significantly more to the city than the museums cost to operate.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
162. Re: Internet abandons the US Oct 16, 2013, 17:35 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 17:20:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2013, 13:26:
Fun fact: the US isn't even in the top 30 for debt as a % of GDP.

It's standard for debt whiners - they complain about the absolute value without actually putting it relative to anything (numbers alone are meaningless unless they're anchored to something. % of GDP is a good one. $ per capita is a good one. Absolute value is not a good one.) And none of them can ever explain why the debt will hurt us. In general, they complain about things like China owning us (without understanding how much China owns and why it isn't really a pressing concern.)

No one will say our debt is good. No one will say we shouldn't make broad moves to stem it from growing. But it isn't our most pressing concern. That debt has next to no impact on our domestic economy. That debt doesn't contribute to our country being a crappier place to live. Let's focus on things that do.

Except you offer zero ideas on how to keep the debt from growing, I've yet to see one person that I would consider a liberal by their opinions posted, ever offer once instance of how to trim our debt aside from gutting the military. Just once I'd love to see what things you asshats would actually trim.
it seems to me that democrats want big government, they obviously love being told what to do as well by said big government. Because they never make the argument that a slimmer more efficient government would save money in the long run. Instead they want the opposite. Blows my mind.

Lol @ the hyperbole "gutting the military". You get annoyed at others for ad hom and such, but apparently you aren't any better at discussing things than they are. Do you have to straw-man any position you don't like?

There's plenty that can be done to trim down defense spending without coming anywhere near "gutting" it. You don't seem to be interested in that conversation though.

Anyway, I need to go read up on this apparent resolution and see what happened.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
161. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 16, 2013, 17:31 Redmask
 
GOP fringe caved, Obamacare is here to stay, deal in place.

Except you offer zero ideas on how to keep the debt from growing

Mirror mirror on the wall. I'm not a liberal but I would start with a comprehensive overhaul of social security which is practically unfunded at this point. Then I would start with the military where excessively ballooning budgets have become the norm with a lot of dubious oversight. I have yet to see you offer a single instance of constructive criticism or any substantial thoughts on how to actually reduce the debt either. You are full of hot air and love to throw blame around but have little else to offer. We don't start reducing national debt by ignoring the largest contributors to it over the past twenty years. The small government speeches don't impress anyone, its rhetoric that quickly disappears after coming into power. You already got decisively shot down about social programs too.

This comment was edited on Oct 16, 2013, 17:40.
 
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160. removed Oct 16, 2013, 17:20 RollinThundr
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Oct 16, 2013, 18:29.
 
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