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Morning Metaverse

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259. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 08:05 Quboid
 
*round of applause*

Nice work jdreyer. If the troll was capable of understanding reality, he'd be shamed.
 
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- Quboid
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258. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 03:27 jdreyer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?


Really believe in smaller government? Put your money where your mouth is. Say, "I propose that we cut defense spending by half. There's no reason why the USA needs to spend more on defense than all other nations combined. I believe in the constitution, and original intent. And the founding fathers never intended for us to have a standing army, yet we do. We must get rid of it."

Practice what you preach brother. Go ahead.
 
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257. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 03:24 jdreyer
 
Ah, yes. Let's take this stupidity point by point.
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
I think this administration has done a good job destroying the economy without help from the TP quite honestly. There's a reason all these internet groups among others are distancing themselves.
Let's see, Obama inherits an economy in free fall thanks to Clintonian and Bushian deregulation, and despite Repub intransigence, rights the ship and sees steady growth.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Obamacare for example, should have never been signed into law in the first place. It's unconstitutional for the US government to force any sort of service on it's people. That's exactly what Obamacare does.
Yes, and that's why the US Supreme Court overturned it. Oh, wait. They found it constitutional.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Makes me wonder what Eric "I should be in jail" Holder has on the SC justices that they let this travesty of a bill get signed into law.
Let's see, 1) Holder has dirt on the SCOTUS, so they declared the ACA constitutional. Or, 2) the ACA is just constitutional. Occam's razor, so answer two is correct.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Then you get into voter fraud and voter intimidation, another thing dems are experts in. Though I wonder if next election will bring out as many Black Panthers this time around.
Except that there's no such thing as Dem voter fraud. That's a Republican specialty.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
And to think if we just forced people to show an id that proves they're a US citizen a lot of that could be avoided. But that would be racist too apparently. Rolleyes2
Except that ID laws aren't made to secure the vote, which is already 99.99999924% secure. Voter ID laws, as Republicans admit, are designed to prevent honest, eligible, legal citizens from voting.

And yet, when faced with this overwhelming evidence, you'll continue to cling to your beliefs based on lies, manipulation, and falsehoods. And you'll continue to vote against your own self-interest.
 
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256. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 02:57 jdreyer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 16:54:
Redmask wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 13:17:
While I don't enjoy voting for the lesser evil, I will do that rather than vote for these guys that are largely either complete idiots, or at least doing a good impression of one in order to appeal to their base. Just listening to their speeches is painful, as they're either transparently lying or just saying things so stupid that it's downright frightening that they actually got elected.

They just seem to pander to extremes with repeatable TV blurbs and slogans. I could never in good conscience vote for them, might as well just vote for a media strategy as it's all they bring to the table outside of ultimatums and alienating voters. They had their shot and spectacularly blew it, costing American citizens and businesses billions of dollars and got nothing to show for it. Oh well, with them going the way of the dodo maybe we can finally get some things accomplished even if I don't agree with all of it.

Yet in good conscience you'll vote for democrats that do the same thing. Great logic there.

Ah, yes. "Both sides do it"

Repubs: shut down the gov't costing billions of dollars
Dem equivalent: Nothing

Repubs: spread propaganda that the president is illegitimate foreigner.
Dem equivalent: Nothing

Repubs: engage in the most partisan gerrymander in the history of our country, so much that they control the house by 33 votes despite the Dems winning the popular vote by a million votes.
Dem equivalent: Nothing

Repubs: Suppress the vote in state after state.
Dem equivalent: Nothing

Repubs: Delay, kill, and filibuster every single Obama proposal, even ones that were Repub introduced, or to the right of the Repubs, in the most unprecedented display of obstruction that our country has ever seen.
Dem equivalent: Nothing

Repubs: Shut down the govn't then blame Obama for park closures.
Dem equivalent: Nothing

And on, and on.
 
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255. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 02:31 jdreyer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Forcing people to buy healthcare or be fined is not a tax. Call it what it is, forcing a service on US citizens, which is a direct violation of the Constitution. Calling it a tax is just a loophole and one the SC should have had the balls to slap down.

I'm so confused. I just don't know who to believe about the ACA. Should I trust thundr, who says it violates the constitution? OR should I trust the US Supreme Court, who says it doesn't? It's just so hard to know who's right.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Right, like that broad in Ohio who voted what, 5? 6 times for Obama? I don't see Conservative groups intimidating voters either like the Black Panthers and similar liberal groups.

Voting is important, making sure those votes are legal should also be important, illegal immigrants are always going to vote for democrats. The simple solution would be picture ID.

This statement marks you as ignorant, stupid, or a troll, or all three.

There is no voter fraud. It is a myth. This analysis finds just ten instances between 2000 and 2012. Here's another:

Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas.
There is greater chance of being struck by lightening or bitten by a shark than voter fraud.

So, why ARE all of these Republican-led states (and it's ONLY Repub states that do this) making it harder for minorities, the poor, and the old to vote? OH, I see: it's to suppress DEMOCRATIC voters. Well, thanks for fessin' up there Phyllis:
The reduction in the number of days allowed for early voting is particularly important because early voting plays a major role in Obama’s ground game. The Democrats carried most states that allow many days of early voting, and Obama’s national field director admitted, shortly before last year’s election, that ‘early voting is giving us a solid lead in the battleground states that will decide this election.’
Note she's talking about attempting to exclude valid, legal, eligible voters from voting. People who might have to work on election day. People who work two jobs. People who might not have 7 hours to stand in line because Republicans arranged for there to be only two voting machines in a minority precinct.

You know you can't win outright, so you rig the system. That's not democracy; that's what Stalin and Saddam Hussein did. That's your party. That's who you support.
 
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254. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 00:33 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 21, 2013, 00:30:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Forcing people to buy healthcare or be fined is not a tax. Call it what it is, forcing a service on US citizens, which is a direct violation of the Constitution. Calling it a tax is just a loophole and one the SC should have had the balls to slap down.
Nope, read the ruling. It depends on how it's implemented, and it was implemented as a tax.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Right, like that broad in Ohio who voted what, 5? 6 times for Obama? I don't see Conservative groups intimidating voters either like the Black Panthers and similar liberal groups.
Right. There are so many examples that you happen to remember a specific one rather than cite any actual data. Let me know once you have more than an anecdote.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Voting is important, making sure those votes are legal should also be important, illegal immigrants are always going to vote for democrats. The simple solution would be picture ID.
Do you have actual evidence of a significant problem of illegals voting? If not, then I'm gonna go with the reason that the Republicans behind these laws gave when talking about them at their gatherings. They were designed to decrease Democratic voter turnout. They didn't have any evidence of voter fraud.

Think about it, why don't democrats want immigration reform? Why are they so against better protection on the southwestern border of the US to stem illegals from coming in?

Picture ID's aren't expensive, you people make it sound like it cost a fortune to get a damn ID.
 
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253. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 21, 2013, 00:30 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Forcing people to buy healthcare or be fined is not a tax. Call it what it is, forcing a service on US citizens, which is a direct violation of the Constitution. Calling it a tax is just a loophole and one the SC should have had the balls to slap down.
Nope, read the ruling. It depends on how it's implemented, and it was implemented as a tax.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Right, like that broad in Ohio who voted what, 5? 6 times for Obama? I don't see Conservative groups intimidating voters either like the Black Panthers and similar liberal groups.
Right. There are so many examples that you happen to remember a specific one rather than cite any actual data. Let me know once you have more than an anecdote. There were also plenty of examples of Republicans harassing or deceiving voters.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 22:54:
Voting is important, making sure those votes are legal should also be important, illegal immigrants are always going to vote for democrats. The simple solution would be picture ID.
Do you have actual evidence of a significant problem of illegals voting? If not, then I'm gonna go with the reason that the Republicans behind these laws gave when talking about them at their gatherings. They were designed to decrease Democratic voter turnout. They didn't have any evidence of voter fraud.
 
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252. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 22:54 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 21:26:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Sepharo wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 16:34:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

"Beholden to big business" in this instance is "not destroying the U.S. economy". Big business likes when the tea party talks about deregulation and lower taxes, they don't like when they make credible threats against the economy... That's not good for business.

I think this administration has done a good job destroying the economy without help from the TP quite honestly. There's a reason all these internet groups among others are distancing themselves.

Obamacare for example, should have never been signed into law in the first place. It's unconstitutional for the US government to force any sort of service on it's people. That's exactly what Obamacare does.

Makes me wonder what Eric "I should be in jail" Holder has on the SC justices that they let this travesty of a bill get signed into law.
Nothing. It's a tax, plain and simple. They tried to avoid calling it that since it makes Republican knees all jerky, but that's what it was, and that's what the court pointed out, which is why it's not unconstitutional.


RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Then you get into voter fraud and voter intimidation, another thing dems are experts in. Though I wonder if next election will bring out as many Black Panthers this time around.

And to think if we just forced people to show an id that proves they're a US citizen a lot of that could be avoided. But that would be racist too apparently. Rolleyes2
You're really gonna go there? I think you'll find the actual fraud/intimidation cases fall heavier on the Republican side, and are still negligible when it comes to actual elections anyway. Then we get to all the anti-voter laws that Republicans were passing specifically, and admittedly to reduce Democratic turnout. They couldn't even point to any actual cases of in-person voting fraud, because there are so few as to make them inconsequential. So really, take your bullshit on this subject somewhere else. I'm sick to death of Republicans talking about voter fraud. It's all complete bullshit.

Forcing people to buy healthcare or be fined is not a tax. Call it what it is, forcing a service on US citizens, which is a direct violation of the Constitution. Calling it a tax is just a loophole and one the SC should have had the balls to slap down.

Right, like that broad in Ohio who voted what, 5? 6 times for Obama? I don't see Conservative groups intimidating voters either like the Black Panthers and similar liberal groups.

Voting is important, making sure those votes are legal should also be important, illegal immigrants are always going to vote for democrats. The simple solution would be picture ID.
 
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251. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 21:26 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Sepharo wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 16:34:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

"Beholden to big business" in this instance is "not destroying the U.S. economy". Big business likes when the tea party talks about deregulation and lower taxes, they don't like when they make credible threats against the economy... That's not good for business.

I think this administration has done a good job destroying the economy without help from the TP quite honestly. There's a reason all these internet groups among others are distancing themselves.

Obamacare for example, should have never been signed into law in the first place. It's unconstitutional for the US government to force any sort of service on it's people. That's exactly what Obamacare does.

Makes me wonder what Eric "I should be in jail" Holder has on the SC justices that they let this travesty of a bill get signed into law.
Nothing. It's a tax, plain and simple. They tried to avoid calling it that since it makes Republican knees all jerky, but that's what it was, and that's what the court pointed out, which is why it's not unconstitutional.


RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 04:48:
Then you get into voter fraud and voter intimidation, another thing dems are experts in. Though I wonder if next election will bring out as many Black Panthers this time around.

And to think if we just forced people to show an id that proves they're a US citizen a lot of that could be avoided. But that would be racist too apparently. Rolleyes2
You're really gonna go there? I think you'll find the actual fraud/intimidation cases fall heavier on the Republican side, and are still negligible when it comes to actual elections anyway. Then we get to all the anti-voter laws that Republicans were passing specifically, and admittedly to reduce Democratic turnout. They couldn't even point to any actual cases of in-person voting fraud, because there are so few as to make them inconsequential. So really, take your bullshit on this subject somewhere else. I'm sick to death of Republicans talking about voter fraud. It's all complete bullshit.
 
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250. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 18:28 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 16:54:
Yet in good conscience you'll vote for democrats that do the same thing. Great logic there.

Making poor assumptions about how other people vote is great logic. Hammer that refresh and spam some more for the last word, maybe everyone else will stop replying and you'll WIN!!!!
 
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249. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 16:54 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 20, 2013, 13:17:
While I don't enjoy voting for the lesser evil, I will do that rather than vote for these guys that are largely either complete idiots, or at least doing a good impression of one in order to appeal to their base. Just listening to their speeches is painful, as they're either transparently lying or just saying things so stupid that it's downright frightening that they actually got elected.

They just seem to pander to extremes with repeatable TV blurbs and slogans. I could never in good conscience vote for them, might as well just vote for a media strategy as it's all they bring to the table outside of ultimatums and alienating voters. They had their shot and spectacularly blew it, costing American citizens and businesses billions of dollars and got nothing to show for it. Oh well, with them going the way of the dodo maybe we can finally get some things accomplished even if I don't agree with all of it.

Yet in good conscience you'll vote for democrats that do the same thing. Great logic there.
 
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248. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 13:17 Redmask
 
While I don't enjoy voting for the lesser evil, I will do that rather than vote for these guys that are largely either complete idiots, or at least doing a good impression of one in order to appeal to their base. Just listening to their speeches is painful, as they're either transparently lying or just saying things so stupid that it's downright frightening that they actually got elected.

They just seem to pander to extremes with repeatable TV blurbs and slogans. I could never in good conscience vote for them, might as well just vote for a media strategy as it's all they bring to the table outside of ultimatums and alienating voters. They had their shot and spectacularly blew it, costing American citizens and businesses billions of dollars and got nothing to show for it. Oh well, with them going the way of the dodo maybe we can finally get some things accomplished even if I don't agree with all of it.
 
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247. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2013, 04:48 RollinThundr
 
Sepharo wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 16:34:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

"Beholden to big business" in this instance is "not destroying the U.S. economy". Big business likes when the tea party talks about deregulation and lower taxes, they don't like when they make credible threats against the economy... That's not good for business.

I think this administration has done a good job destroying the economy without help from the TP quite honestly. There's a reason all these internet groups among others are distancing themselves.

Obamacare for example, should have never been signed into law in the first place. It's unconstitutional for the US government to force any sort of service on it's people. That's exactly what Obamacare does.

Makes me wonder what Eric "I should be in jail" Holder has on the SC justices that they let this travesty of a bill get signed into law.

Then you get into voter fraud and voter intimidation, another thing dems are experts in. Though I wonder if next election will bring out as many Black Panthers this time around.

And to think if we just forced people to show an id that proves they're a US citizen a lot of that could be avoided. But that would be racist too apparently. Rolleyes2
 
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246. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2013, 19:14 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

While I don't enjoy voting for the lesser evil, I will do that rather than vote for these guys that are largely either complete idiots, or at least doing a good impression of one in order to appeal to their base. Just listening to their speeches is painful, as they're either transparently lying or just saying things so stupid that it's downright frightening that they actually got elected.

Besides, these TP guys aren't going to do anything to fix the lousy electoral system we have, which is a big part of the reason we end up with the choice between dumb and dumber.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2013, 20:31.
 
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245. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2013, 16:34 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 13:40:
They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

"Beholden to big business" in this instance is "not destroying the U.S. economy". Big business likes when the tea party talks about deregulation and lower taxes, they don't like when they make credible threats against the economy... That's not good for business.
 
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244. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2013, 16:20 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 19, 2013, 14:08:
Dirwulf wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:49:
“I don’t know of anybody in the business community who takes the side of the Taliban minority,” said Dirk Van Dongen, longtime chief lobbyist for the National Association of Wholesaler-Distributors.

Even the business people are turning against the tea party now.

No surprise there, all they have to offer is a bunch of electioneering rhetoric for the gullible, they don't have realistic platforms and can't connect with moderate voters due to their often insane and contradicting views. They also tend to self destruct on all of their relationships due to their inability to see a bigger picture or work with anyone else in government, we saw a great example of that recently. The TP is basically done, both major parties are the laying the groundwork on TP candidates already and they will be totally marginalized. No money will mean no more big media buys, no popular support and they'll do the rest themselves. Good riddance.

Good lets demonize them. Let's just keep kicking the can down the road and do things the same corrupt ways we have been.
 
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243. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2013, 14:08 Verno
 
Dirwulf wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:49:
“I don’t know of anybody in the business community who takes the side of the Taliban minority,” said Dirk Van Dongen, longtime chief lobbyist for the National Association of Wholesaler-Distributors.

Even the business people are turning against the tea party now.

No surprise there, all they have to offer is a bunch of electioneering rhetoric for the gullible, they don't have realistic platforms and can't connect with moderate voters due to their often insane and contradicting views. They also tend to self destruct on all of their relationships due to their inability to see a bigger picture or work with anyone else in government, we saw a great example of that recently. The TP is basically done, both major parties are the laying the groundwork on TP candidates already and they will be totally marginalized. No money will mean no more big media buys, no popular support and they'll do the rest themselves. Good riddance.
 
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242. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2013, 13:40 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 19:37:
Dirwulf wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:49:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 09:35:
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 08:47:
You can't get mad at them, you totally misrepresented something and got nailed on it. There is no dancing around it, my 5 year old knows better than to pull that crap. You want to push your agenda then at least own it when you screw up.

I'm not really mad to be honest, just eye rolling at how hypocritical most left leaning people are. I have read so much whining and crying about the tea party and what they stand for, when everyone who likes freedom and their rights should be moving to embrace them.

The 2 party system really is one party, they just have their spending priorities in difference places. I'd never thought I'd say it but really if we want any small possible chance at actual Hope and Change and not that bullshit Obama's been selling you, people would start voting for the Cruzs' and Pauls' of the world, rather than continuing to reelect the same bozos every 4 years, be they either D or R.

George Carlin really said it best, "Sooner or later the people of this country are going to realize government doesn't give a fuck about them,government doesn't care about you, All they're interested in is keeping and expanding their own power"

Even the business people are turning against the tea party now.
Not that I trust the business community to do anything except deregulate themselves and push for anything that lets them make more money regardless of the consequences, but at least they aren't trying to destroy the economy like the TP morons. Maybe they'll be slightly more discerning in who they throw money at in the future...

They're turning on them because the TP doesn't want to be beholden to big business like a lot of the Republicans are already. They want to follow the constitution and slim down government. The fact that people have issue with that really does blow my mind. You know rather than keep voting for two sides of the same coin and hope and change that is always more of the same?

 
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241. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 18, 2013, 19:37 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Dirwulf wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:49:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 09:35:
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 08:47:
You can't get mad at them, you totally misrepresented something and got nailed on it. There is no dancing around it, my 5 year old knows better than to pull that crap. You want to push your agenda then at least own it when you screw up.

I'm not really mad to be honest, just eye rolling at how hypocritical most left leaning people are. I have read so much whining and crying about the tea party and what they stand for, when everyone who likes freedom and their rights should be moving to embrace them.

The 2 party system really is one party, they just have their spending priorities in difference places. I'd never thought I'd say it but really if we want any small possible chance at actual Hope and Change and not that bullshit Obama's been selling you, people would start voting for the Cruzs' and Pauls' of the world, rather than continuing to reelect the same bozos every 4 years, be they either D or R.

George Carlin really said it best, "Sooner or later the people of this country are going to realize government doesn't give a fuck about them,government doesn't care about you, All they're interested in is keeping and expanding their own power"

Even the business people are turning against the tea party now.
Not that I trust the business community to do anything except deregulate themselves and push for anything that lets them make more money regardless of the consequences, but at least they aren't trying to destroy the economy like the TP morons. Maybe they'll be slightly more discerning in who they throw money at in the future...
 
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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240. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 18, 2013, 19:33 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 16:00:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:50:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:36:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 18, 2013, 15:09:
Apparently you care since you were the one insisting that the TP is a grass roots thing from 2009. Soros has absolutely nothing to do with your claim and nobody else said anything about him. You were just wrong. Deal with it and quit bringing up irrelevant other crap.

As for the superpacs thing, I don't see a way to fix it short of doing public financing of campaigns. Even that is only a partial fix. Maybe you have some better idea that won't run afoul of the first amendment.

I don't think the first amendment has much to do with giving politicians tons of cash.

I shouldn't have to bring up the reason I mentioned him at all. It was merely to demonstrate that it's ok when liberals do it, fund causes and push their believes and agendas, you guys have zero issue with that. To be honest it's guys like Soros that caused the shift in this country to push forth the believe that everyone is entitled out of the womb. Not one person would have thought that way 20 years ago.

When conservative groups do it, you get upset about it. You can't have it both ways.

I think the message however is more important, so I'll repeat it again, smaller, streamlined and more limited government oversight, (yes you still need regulations for things don't go there) and reigning in the spending.

I really don't care how we get there to be honest.

Dude. You are not getting it. Nobody made any claim about it being ok for liberals but not for conservatives. Nobody gave a damn that the Kochs created the TP. The ONLY point of dispute is that you were claiming that they weren't involved until later. THAT is the only thing that was being corrected. Everything else you've been saying is just straw-man bullshit. OK?

As for the first amendment being an issue, look at how the money is used by the campaigns. They buy assloads of advertising with it. So what if the money doesn't go directly to the candidate but to some other corporation set up as a superpac or whatever other type of corp is convenient. Are we going to prevent them from running ads on TV? What if the ads don't specifically mention the candidate, even if they make it obvious who it is? How obvious would it have to be? That's just regulation hell right there, and I wouldn't want to go there.

Honestly, poltical ads are all mud slinging these days anyway and are dishonest on both sides. We need them why?

How could they be prevented?
 
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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