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459. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 17:30 Prez
 
It's forcing a service by federal mandate, they're abusing the commerce clause by calling it a tax. Period, end of fucking story.

Well the Supreme Court has ruled the penalty a tax, which is within Constitutionally-granted Congressional power, so it is in fact Constitutional as decreed by the Supreme Court, the very body which the founders set up as the final say on the Constitutionality of legislation. A majority conservative Supreme Court no less. You are not mandated to buy health care; you are just made to pay a penalty if you don't.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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458. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 16:54 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:08:
Sepharo wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:40:
Rollin, you earlier mentioned a Republican proposed single-payer system. That's kind of been rolling around in my head ever since then and I've been unable to find anything about it. Can you link that please?
http://tinyurl.com/l6rxgtt
http://tinyurl.com/k9ulgzz
http://tinyurl.com/odd5dso

There have been republicans saying all along the only way to make it work at all would be to have a single payer option. Without it, Obamacare is going to fail and the majority will pay more.

We already have tons of proof in it's current form it'll cost the majority more. But the democrats just had to ramrod it through anyway because this is Obama's legacy. For better or worse.

Those are blog posts that accurately state reality... A single payer option is better for everyone. That doesn't change that Republicans fought against that tooth and nail and we ended up with the ACA instead. I still haven't been able to find a serious Republican proposal through legislation for single-payer and that's what you made it sounds like when you wrote this ridiculous gem:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 10:27:
The republican plan had single payer, Obama just didn't want to give any credit to the GOP or use their plan because it wasn't his. This guy has been the most partisan president in my life time. That's a problem.
 
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457. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 16:53 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 16:39:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
Prez wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 14:59:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 13:01:

My opinion is we have too many people in the US for socialized health care to ever be done in a way that's going to be affordable. Regardless of which party's plan it is. It's just not going to work in the long run doing the actual math.

Is "Obamacare" really socialized health care though? Do people in socialist nations have to pay a premium and a deductible like people do under the ACA? I always thought socialized medicine meant it was paid for completely out of tax revenues.

It is though, it's requiring everyone to pay into a service provided by the government, something that SHOULD not be allowed to happen period.
No, it's really not. It's requiring us to purchase plans from corporations, not from the government.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
I'm all for regulating the health industry on how much certain procedures cost. What I am not for is redefining parts of the Constitution or outright ignoring parts of the Constitution to reflect mob mentality. It's a dangerous precedent.
We've been through this. It's not unconstitutional. Hell, the Heritage Foundation came up with the individual mandate, not those socialist Dems.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
The same goes for the first and second amendment, Obama has talked more than once about silencing members of the media that he doesn't agree with, advocating boycotts on members of the media like a Rush, or Fox in general or the Bob Woodward case,just because he doesn't like what they have to say.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
He's also made reference to executive orders on the 2nd amendment which is not in his power to do. The media is there, and this is ALL media, to challenge politicians in both policies and actions. We don't have that now, instead we have a media that is an extension of their own bias be it left or right.
You obviously have no idea what those proposals were. They weren't going to violate the 2nd amendment in any way, and I say that as someone who is a gun owner and supports gun ownership rights.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
We're setting a very dangerous precedent, people really need to wake up regardless of party affiliation.
Really the Zimmerman case was a perfect example of this which is why I brought it up. How many times has a president in history ever made a federal case of black on black crime, or black on white crime? When have you ever heard the terminology before the zimmerman case of "White Hispanic?" Never mind the double standard when talking about black conservatives, equating them to race traitors, calling them Uncle Toms or the like.
The Zimmerman case was an example of a bad law and a whole lot of uninformed people spewing a lot of uninformed crap all over the place. The bottom line is that since there were no useful witnesses, we don't know who started the conflict. We do know Zimmerman made some really bad, and downright stupid, decisions, but that doesn't tell us who initiated the fight. Since the law doesn't require him to provide any evidence that lethal force was required or that he was attacked, they had to acquit.

It's forcing a service by federal mandate, they're abusing the commerce clause by calling it a tax. Period, end of fucking story.

Neither do you, Obama or any president for that matter, CANNOT redefine rights that are protected by the Constitution, which is an anti evolutionary device drafted to prevent mob mentality deciding how to redefine the laws of the land. The bullshit line that it's a living evolving document is just that, total and outright bullshit.

Self defense is self defense, the Zimmerman case had zero to do with stand your ground, the media circus made it about stand your ground when it had zero to do with the case in reality. That does not excuse Obama's comments on it, or on Martin to try and tug at heart strings or sway people to make him look like a victim. It was an unprecedented thing for a POTUS to do to begin with.

 
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456. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 16:39 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
Prez wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 14:59:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 13:01:

My opinion is we have too many people in the US for socialized health care to ever be done in a way that's going to be affordable. Regardless of which party's plan it is. It's just not going to work in the long run doing the actual math.

Is "Obamacare" really socialized health care though? Do people in socialist nations have to pay a premium and a deductible like people do under the ACA? I always thought socialized medicine meant it was paid for completely out of tax revenues.

It is though, it's requiring everyone to pay into a service provided by the government, something that SHOULD not be allowed to happen period.
No, it's really not. It's requiring us to purchase plans from corporations, not from the government.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
I'm all for regulating the health industry on how much certain procedures cost. What I am not for is redefining parts of the Constitution or outright ignoring parts of the Constitution to reflect mob mentality. It's a dangerous precedent.
We've been through this. It's not unconstitutional. Hell, the Heritage Foundation came up with the individual mandate, not those socialist Dems.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
The same goes for the first and second amendment, Obama has talked more than once about silencing members of the media that he doesn't agree with, advocating boycotts on members of the media like a Rush, or Fox in general or the Bob Woodward case,just because he doesn't like what they have to say.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
He's also made reference to executive orders on the 2nd amendment which is not in his power to do. The media is there, and this is ALL media, to challenge politicians in both policies and actions. We don't have that now, instead we have a media that is an extension of their own bias be it left or right.
You obviously have no idea what those proposals were. They weren't going to violate the 2nd amendment in any way, and I say that as someone who is a gun owner and supports gun ownership rights.

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:21:
We're setting a very dangerous precedent, people really need to wake up regardless of party affiliation.
Really the Zimmerman case was a perfect example of this which is why I brought it up. How many times has a president in history ever made a federal case of black on black crime, or black on white crime? When have you ever heard the terminology before the zimmerman case of "White Hispanic?" Never mind the double standard when talking about black conservatives, equating them to race traitors, calling them Uncle Toms or the like.
The Zimmerman case was an example of a bad law and a whole lot of uninformed people spewing a lot of uninformed crap all over the place. The bottom line is that since there were no useful witnesses, we don't know who started the conflict. We do know Zimmerman made some really bad, and downright stupid, decisions, but that doesn't tell us who initiated the fight. Since the law doesn't require him to provide any evidence that lethal force was required or that he was attacked, they had to acquit.
 
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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455. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 15:21 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 14:59:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 13:01:

My opinion is we have too many people in the US for socialized health care to ever be done in a way that's going to be affordable. Regardless of which party's plan it is. It's just not going to work in the long run doing the actual math.

Is "Obamacare" really socialized health care though? Do people in socialist nations have to pay a premium and a deductible like people do under the ACA? I always thought socialized medicine meant it was paid for completely out of tax revenues.

It is though, it's requiring everyone to pay into a service provided by the government, something that SHOULD not be allowed to happen period.

I'm all for regulating the health industry on how much certain procedures cost. What I am not for is redefining parts of the Constitution or outright ignoring parts of the Constitution to reflect mob mentality. It's a dangerous precedent. The same goes for the first and second amendment, Obama has talked more than once about silencing members of the media that he doesn't agree with, advocating boycotts on members of the media like a Rush, or Fox in general or the Bob Woodward case,just because he doesn't like what they have to say. He's also made reference to executive orders on the 2nd amendment which is not in his power to do. The media is there, and this is ALL media, to challenge politicians in both policies and actions. We don't have that now, instead we have a media that is an extension of their own bias be it left or right.

We're setting a very dangerous precedent, people really need to wake up regardless of party affiliation.
Really the Zimmerman case was a perfect example of this which is why I brought it up. How many times has a president in history ever made a federal case of black on black crime, or black on white crime? When have you ever heard the terminology before the zimmerman case of "White Hispanic?" Never mind the double standard when talking about black conservatives, equating them to race traitors, calling them Uncle Toms or the like.

This comment was edited on Oct 26, 2013, 15:29.
 
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454. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 14:59 Prez
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 13:01:

My opinion is we have too many people in the US for socialized health care to ever be done in a way that's going to be affordable. Regardless of which party's plan it is. It's just not going to work in the long run doing the actual math.

Is "Obamacare" really socialized health care though? Do people in socialist nations have to pay a premium and a deductible like people do under the ACA? I always thought socialized medicine meant it was paid for completely out of tax revenues.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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453. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 13:22 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 13:11:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:53:

They admitted it. It's more like you don't have time for facts. But that's the thing with this administration everytime they get caught in a lie there's zero investigation. Odd that doncha think?

It's more like I don't have time for every offtopic rant you want to go on about Joy Behar and George Zimmerman. You got thoroughly debunked on this stuff pages ago already, why should I retread it for your sake? I'm not your shrink dude, your problem. This circular topic sucks, I'm out guys peace.

You haven't debunked anything, just ignored facts as usual.
 
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452. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 13:11 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:53:

They admitted it. It's more like you don't have time for facts. But that's the thing with this administration everytime they get caught in a lie there's zero investigation. Odd that doncha think?

It's more like I don't have time for every offtopic rant you want to go on about Joy Behar and George Zimmerman. You got thoroughly debunked on this stuff pages ago already, why should I retread it for your sake? I'm not your shrink dude, your problem. This circular topic sucks, I'm out guys peace.
 
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451. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 13:01 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:56:
I've seen some pretty despicable behavior from the media on all sides, Fox has perpetrated alarmingly inaccurate stories and sometimes invented outright falsehoods. I don't really consider CNN liberally biased anymore, I see plenty of both there after doing more research. It's more of a FoxNews/MSNBC mocking for me, they're both awful and I don't watch either for that reason.

Getting back to Obamacare I think once the deployment issues are dealt with we can start making adjustments to bring it to a place where both major parties can live with it. There are funding shortfalls I'd like to see addressed and I don't think its far reaching enough in some categories. If it really turns out to be a turkey then it'll be hung over the Democrats head next election. The political obstructions were ill conceived and I think will ultimately be the death of the tea party. Better to use it ammo against them than to hurt the entire nation and cost us more than them.

My opinion is we have too many people in the US for socialized health care to ever be done in a way that's going to be affordable. Regardless of which party's plan it is. It's just not going to work in the long run doing the actual math.
 
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450. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:56 Verno
 
I've seen some pretty despicable behavior from the media on all sides, Fox has perpetrated alarmingly inaccurate stories and sometimes invented outright falsehoods. I don't really consider CNN liberally biased anymore, I see plenty of both there after doing more research. It's more of a FoxNews/MSNBC mocking for me, they're both awful and I don't watch either for that reason.

Getting back to Obamacare I think once the deployment issues are dealt with we can start making adjustments to bring it to a place where both major parties can live with it. There are funding shortfalls I'd like to see addressed and I don't think its far reaching enough in some categories. If it really turns out to be a turkey then it'll be hung over the Democrats head next election. The political obstructions were ill conceived and I think will ultimately be the death of the tea party. Better to use it ammo against them than to hurt the entire nation and cost us more than them.
 
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Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
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449. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:53 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:44:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:39:
NBC didn't doctor the Zimmerman 911 call and get caught for it? Dan Rather didn't use a falsified report to slam Bush?

Anderson Cooper and Piers "I'm a douchebag" Morgan aren't liberals?

I really don't have any patience for Zimmerman conspiracy theories on either side of the fence and I'm not going to get into a tit for tat on who is or isn't biased as that's all a matter of perspective. The moment you start going off on shows for soccer moms and shit you're off in lalaland.

First it's Obamacare then it's Obama is so bad it's media bias then its OMG The View and George Zimmerman. This is exactly what Sepharo was talking about earlier about not taking the time to read, understand and respond on topic appropriately.

They admitted it. It's more like you don't have time for facts. But that's the thing with this administration everytime they get caught in a lie there's zero investigation. Odd that doncha think?
 
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448. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:44 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:39:
NBC didn't doctor the Zimmerman 911 call and get caught for it? Dan Rather didn't use a falsified report to slam Bush?

Anderson Cooper and Piers "I'm a douchebag" Morgan aren't liberals?

I really don't have any patience for Zimmerman conspiracy theories on either side of the fence and I'm not going to get into a tit for tat on who is or isn't biased as that's all a matter of perspective. The moment you start going off on shows for soccer moms and shit you're off in lalaland.

First it's Obamacare then it's Obama is so bad it's media bias then its OMG The View and George Zimmerman. This is exactly what Sepharo was talking about earlier about not taking the time to read, understand and respond on topic appropriately.
 
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447. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:39 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:25:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:08:
Sepharo wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:40:
Rollin, you earlier mentioned a Republican proposed single-payer system. That's kind of been rolling around in my head ever since then and I've been unable to find anything about it. Can you link that please?
http://tinyurl.com/l6rxgtt
http://tinyurl.com/k9ulgzz
http://tinyurl.com/odd5dso

A set of blog posts and a state level bill is not a 'Republican proposal for a single payer system' on a national, political level. There are many democrats who would like single payer too if you google through some blogs, not everyone thinks Obamacare is perfect. There are also many Conservatives who actually like many aspects of the Affordable Care Act.

NBC, CBS and ABC are all liberally biased, MSNBC gives Obama a pass on everything while blaming everything on those evil conservatives. CNN is generally liberally bias, The View is liberally biased, Joy Beher and Whoopi Goldberg, both liberals, both complete fucking morons.

We have one conservative cable news station, 1! Apparently that's one too many for some.

When you are on the extreme fringe, everything is liberal. That's your perception problem, not reality. You were debunked on this long ago with links confirming even on your so called 'liberal' stations that Conservative views and hosts are more than well booked.

Also The View? Does your arm hurt from reaching that far Gumby? Is Dora the Explorer too left wing? Man there is a lot of sharing on that show, I think maybe shes a socialist.

NBC didn't doctor the Zimmerman 911 call and get caught for it? Dan Rather didn't use a falsified report to slam Bush?

Anderson Cooper and Piers "I'm a douchebag" Morgan aren't liberals?

How bout Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddows or Olberman? Though Olberman is now doing sports I believe since he got shit canned.

Does MSN even have one conservative leaning show on their entire station? Fox at least employs people from the other party.
 
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446. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:38 Verno
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:25:
Is Dora the Explorer too left wing? Man there is a lot of sharing on that show, I think maybe shes a socialist.

*spits out coffee on screen*

Hahaha! Oh man, some humor in these topics is always welcome thanks
 
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445. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:25 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 12:08:
Sepharo wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:40:
Rollin, you earlier mentioned a Republican proposed single-payer system. That's kind of been rolling around in my head ever since then and I've been unable to find anything about it. Can you link that please?
http://tinyurl.com/l6rxgtt
http://tinyurl.com/k9ulgzz
http://tinyurl.com/odd5dso

A set of blog posts and a state level bill is not a 'Republican proposal for a single payer system' on a national, political level. There are many democrats who would like single payer too if you google through some blogs, not everyone thinks Obamacare is perfect. There are also many Conservatives who actually like many aspects of the Affordable Care Act.

NBC, CBS and ABC are all liberally biased, MSNBC gives Obama a pass on everything while blaming everything on those evil conservatives. CNN is generally liberally bias, The View is liberally biased, Joy Beher and Whoopi Goldberg, both liberals, both complete fucking morons.

We have one conservative cable news station, 1! Apparently that's one too many for some.

When you are on the extreme fringe, everything is liberal. That's your perception problem, not reality. You were debunked on this long ago with links confirming even on your so called 'liberal' stations that Conservative views and hosts are more than well booked.

Also The View? Does your arm hurt from reaching that far Gumby? Is Dora the Explorer too left wing? Man there is a lot of sharing on that show, I think maybe shes a socialist.
 
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444. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:21 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:36:
Also, did someone further down tell me I have a victim complex?

I'm a young, single, white cis-male. I'm a victim nowhere. The entire goddamn country is my oyster. My kind pretty much has any opportunity and all the power. All the wealth, too.

How the hell could I have a victim complex?

You're white now? Could have sworn you said you were black before. Go figure.
 
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443. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:14 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:58:
I think we can all agree or at least those of us with half a brain, that the media is extremely dem biased...

It depends on what you mean by "Dem biased". Statistics bear out that journalism majors and others who go into news broadcasting out of college tend to be Democrats by a fair margin. That would tend to indicate that there exists in the political demographics amongst those in the news business a natural democrat bias. This is not to say the the news presented for public consumption is necessarily biased the same way - quite the contrary I think. The most biased news I've seen has come out of Fox News, with MSNBC a pretty distant second. The major news media outlets do a fair job of maintaining a balance between the two for the most part. I won't say completely politics agnostic but NOWHERE NEAR the left wing slant that conservatives claim. Living with a Tea Party girl ( my beautiful wife) has taught me that when conservative complain of a liberal media bias it's more often than not because the media is reporting without a heavy right wing slant. Neutral reporting comes across as biased by contrast to how they want to see information dispensed to the masses. It's a matter of perspective in my opinion.

NBC, CBS and ABC are all liberally biased, MSNBC gives Obama a pass on everything while blaming everything on those evil conservatives. CNN is generally liberally bias, The View is liberally biased, Joy Beher and Whoopi Goldberg, both liberals, both complete fucking morons.

We have one conservative cable news station, 1! Apparently that's one too many for some.
 
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442. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 12:08 RollinThundr
 
Sepharo wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 11:40:
Rollin, you earlier mentioned a Republican proposed single-payer system. That's kind of been rolling around in my head ever since then and I've been unable to find anything about it. Can you link that please?
http://tinyurl.com/l6rxgtt
http://tinyurl.com/k9ulgzz
http://tinyurl.com/odd5dso

There have been republicans saying all along the only way to make it work at all would be to have a single payer option. Without it, Obamacare is going to fail and the majority will pay more.

We already have tons of proof in it's current form it'll cost the majority more. But the democrats just had to ramrod it through anyway because this is Obama's legacy. For better or worse.
 
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441. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 11:58 Prez
 
I think we can all agree or at least those of us with half a brain, that the media is extremely dem biased...

It depends on what you mean by "Dem biased". Statistics bear out that journalism majors and others who go into news broadcasting out of college tend to be Democrats by a fair margin. That would tend to indicate that there exists in the political demographics amongst those in the news business a natural democrat bias. This is not to say the the news presented for public consumption is necessarily biased the same way - quite the contrary I think. The most biased news I've seen has come out of Fox News, with MSNBC a pretty distant second. The major news media outlets do a fair job of maintaining a balance between the two for the most part. I won't say completely politics agnostic but NOWHERE NEAR the left wing slant that conservatives claim. Living with a Tea Party girl ( my beautiful wife) has taught me that when conservative complain of a liberal media bias it's more often than not because the media is reporting without a heavy right wing slant. Neutral reporting comes across as biased by contrast to how they want to see information dispensed to the masses. It's a matter of perspective in my opinion.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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440. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 26, 2013, 11:40 Sepharo
 
Rollin, you earlier mentioned a Republican proposed single-payer system. That's kind of been rolling around in my head ever since then and I've been unable to find anything about it. Can you link that please?  
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