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879. Re: Morning Metaverse Dec 19, 2013, 22:34 nin
 

Why on earth did this get dug back up?

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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878. Re: Morning Metaverse Dec 19, 2013, 22:24 Sepharo
 
Axis wrote on Dec 19, 2013, 21:50:
And while I'm sick of both parties the republicans DID put forth their own versions but the liberals, like always, are steamrollers of an intentionally naive ideology at any cost.

What did they put forward? I'd be interested in seeing it.
 
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877. Re: Morning Metaverse Dec 19, 2013, 21:50 Axis
 
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:13:
There has to be better solutions out there than this garbage.

Undoubtedly. But you know what? No one was doing a thing to come up with better solutions. No one was interested in trying to fix what was very obviously broken and getting worse every year. While it isn't the best solution, it is the only one that anyone has bothered to put forth. Had something been previously done to begin to fix the huge problems with health care coverage in this country the ACA would have never been necessary. Nothing was, so we're stuck with this for now. Hopefully it will be fixed and tweaked down the road, since it is undeniably a mess in its current state, but it's a start. As far as cost goes, health care costs were already skyrocketing before the ACA. It was going to happen with or without it. Rising costs is just a fact of life we all need to deal with.

Oh cmon, 85% of the country had active health insurance with the most innovative and sought-after healthcare in the world - lets see where this shitty Obamacare takes us (even marginally on-the-ball minds know its a pile of shit that will taint everything it touches).

And while I'm sick of both parties the republicans DID put forth their own versions but the liberals, like always, are steamrollers of an intentionally naive ideology at any cost.
 
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Yours truly,

Axis
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876. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 20:24 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 18:13:
There has to be better solutions out there than this garbage.

Undoubtedly. But you know what? No one was doing a thing to come up with better solutions. No one was interested in trying to fix what was very obviously broken and getting worse every year. While it isn't the best solution, it is the only one that anyone has bothered to put forth. Had something been previously done to begin to fix the huge problems with health care coverage in this country the ACA would have never been necessary. Nothing was, so we're stuck with this for now. Hopefully it will be fixed and tweaked down the road, since it is undeniably a mess in its current state, but it's a start. As far as cost goes, health care costs were already skyrocketing before the ACA. It was going to happen with or without it. Rising costs is just a fact of life we all need to deal with.

I would have preferred they took the time to get it right or not do it at all, especially with the multiple billions spent to roll out Obamacare.

Others may not think spending matters, *cough* beamer *cough* but it does. Until we get it under control or at least make an effort, we have a huge risk of another all out collapse and this time I don't think all the printing in the world will stop it from being a total catastrophe.
 
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875. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 18:13 Prez
 
There has to be better solutions out there than this garbage.

Undoubtedly. But you know what? No one was doing a thing to come up with better solutions. No one was interested in trying to fix what was very obviously broken and getting worse every year. While it isn't the best solution, it is the only one that anyone has bothered to put forth. Had something been previously done to begin to fix the huge problems with health care coverage in this country the ACA would have never been necessary. Nothing was, so we're stuck with this for now. Hopefully it will be fixed and tweaked down the road, since it is undeniably a mess in its current state, but it's a start. As far as cost goes, health care costs were already skyrocketing before the ACA. It was going to happen with or without it. Rising costs is just a fact of life we all need to deal with.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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874. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 17:20 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 16:58:
Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary.

I am not going to claim it "great"; rather I'll give you a few things that I like about it myself. I speak for no one but myself here btw.

1) Health plans can’t turn you down or charge you more because you’re sick or have a health condition - that's huge.
2) Puts a cap on yearly out pocket expenses for things like medication.
3) It mandates pediatric dental coverage, which sounds like a small thing but doctors have linked many health problems later in life to poor dental health from an early age.
4) It eliminates annual or lifetime dollar limits for health plans. At my company the limit used to be a million dollars and then you were dropped. In today's world that isn't much, especially if one or more of your family members gets cancer.

All well and good, however none of that addresses the increases to EVERYONE that it will cost. They should just rename it to the Ridiculously Expensive Care Act. It would in the very least be a tiny bit more honest in that regard.

And when it helps to crash the economy again because at some point you can't continue to prop it up by printing money, people will look back on it as a total failure.

There has to be better solutions out there than this garbage.
 
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873. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 16:58 Prez
 
Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary.

I am not going to claim it "great"; rather I'll give you a few things that I like about it myself. I speak for no one but myself here btw.

1) Health plans can’t turn you down or charge you more because you’re sick or have a health condition - that's huge.
2) Puts a cap on yearly out pocket expenses for things like medication.
3) It mandates pediatric dental coverage, which sounds like a small thing but doctors have linked many health problems later in life to poor dental health from an early age.
4) It eliminates annual or lifetime dollar limits for health plans. At my company the limit used to be a million dollars and then you were dropped. In today's world that isn't much, especially if one or more of your family members gets cancer.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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872. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 16:41 RollinThundr
 
The fact that you think males should have to pay for things like maternity leave and gender transformation is flat out batshit insane levels of thinking.

You're ignoring the fact that many many many people will end up paying more overall to still cover those that don't contribute, you're ridiculous. You're also creating scenarios out of thin air, why I expected an honest well thought out reply from you in the first place is my own fault I suppose.

You obviously don't support choices in healthcare plans, just a general government mandated, government controlled, one size fits all solution that will cost more for everyone because they'll be required to pay for services they may not ever need, and in some cases, since it's impossible for men to get knocked up, impossible for them to use.


 
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871. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 16:30 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 16:01:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:14:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 14:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Given some of your posts in this thread, I think you're largely oblivious to the insults you throw out. I don't think you're a reliable judge of whether your posts contained an insult or not.

Sure thing, posts that didn't name anyone or even quote anyone. Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary. Still waiting to see your spin on how it's so great!

This is tiresome. I've already explained that the rollout issues are not the program. Yeah, the website sucks. It'll get fixed. Yeah, some people can't keep shitty plans that don't cover anything and force taxpayers to cover them when they actually need care. Bummer. They'll get new plans. Some will pay a little more, some will pay a little less. Most folks like me have to pick a new plan every year anyway, so this is nothing new. Overall, it's better to have more people covered rather than the rest of us paying stupid amounts of money for them to be sick and get care from the emergency room.

Oh, and since you seem big on things being done by charity, here's something interesting on that subject.

LOL you're incredible, 90+ million lose their plans because they don't include things like maternity leave for males, and you dismiss them as "crappy plans"

Bagger you're flat out dishonest and it's pathetic.

On the topic of charity, the difference is it's voluntary, no one is forcing you to unlike what the liberals would like to mandate you contribute to.

No, I'm realistic. We need a baseline level of coverage, and gender shouldn't be a factor. The point is to simplify the coverage so that people know they are covered. Right now it's very difficult to tell what will be covered under a given plan.

All those people out there with those inexpensive plans are costing the rest of us a lot of money, because they pay those low premiums until they need care, then find out they aren't covered, so they get stuck with a bill they can't pay, and it falls to the taxpayer to pick it up.

Maybe you're cool with paying tens of thousands for emergency care for problems that could have been fixed early on with a $100 doctor visit. I'm really not.

That 90+ million figure for people losing their plans is bullshit too. Plans change all the time already. Rates go up every year. This is nothing new.

And yes, your charity idea is completely unworkable, as that article shows.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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870. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 16:01 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:14:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 14:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Given some of your posts in this thread, I think you're largely oblivious to the insults you throw out. I don't think you're a reliable judge of whether your posts contained an insult or not.

Sure thing, posts that didn't name anyone or even quote anyone. Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary. Still waiting to see your spin on how it's so great!

This is tiresome. I've already explained that the rollout issues are not the program. Yeah, the website sucks. It'll get fixed. Yeah, some people can't keep shitty plans that don't cover anything and force taxpayers to cover them when they actually need care. Bummer. They'll get new plans. Some will pay a little more, some will pay a little less. Most folks like me have to pick a new plan every year anyway, so this is nothing new. Overall, it's better to have more people covered rather than the rest of us paying stupid amounts of money for them to be sick and get care from the emergency room.

Oh, and since you seem big on things being done by charity, here's something interesting on that subject.

LOL you're incredible, 90+ million lose their plans because they don't include things like maternity leave for males, and you dismiss them as "crappy plans"

Bagger you're flat out dishonest and it's pathetic.

On the topic of charity, the difference is it's voluntary, no one is forcing you to unlike what the liberals would like to mandate you contribute to.
 
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869. Re: removed Nov 2, 2013, 15:59 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:45:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 12:56:
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 12:22:
RollinThunder, I really have to disagree with you on the way the media reports about racial violence. The story of the Australian man shot by bored kids ( one of whom was white iirc) was covered by all of the mainstream networks. CNN had just as many stories covering it as Fox news did; surely you are not going to say they are biased against white people too? None of these stories are swept under the rug. Some of the stories (like the Trayvon Martin one) have way more facets to cover as well as a dynamic nature since there was the lack of an initial arrest and rallies for "justice". And of course the media is going to cover every single antagonistic thing angry protesters say and do since it gets people angry, getting the other side riled up escalating the war of words and giving them more juicy shit to cover. Had those bored black teens not been initially arrested the same thing would have played out with white protests and the like. And the media would have been more than happy to cover that too.

Fair enough Prez, however I hate it that stations like NBC will doctor 911 calls to slant a news story. That isn't journalistic integrity. That's pushing an agenda.

It's a culture issue, yet everyone is too afraid to say that because they don't want to be branded racist by the left.

I don't recall you ever getting all riled up any of the countless times that Fox has pulled deceptive editing stunts, and they've got FAR more of those on their record than anyone else. Surely you couldn't possibly trust or respect Fox's reporting anymore.

When I said mainstream media I meant all of it. Including Fox. We don't have integrity with news reporting anymore, and regardless if you want to admit it or not, there is a bias towards the left in general. Guys like Cronkite are surly rolling over in their graves at what passes for journalism in this day and age.

I trust maybe one pundit out of all of them, George Will, the rest can all die in a fire for all I care.
 
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868. Re: removed Nov 2, 2013, 15:45 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 12:56:
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 12:22:
RollinThunder, I really have to disagree with you on the way the media reports about racial violence. The story of the Australian man shot by bored kids ( one of whom was white iirc) was covered by all of the mainstream networks. CNN had just as many stories covering it as Fox news did; surely you are not going to say they are biased against white people too? None of these stories are swept under the rug. Some of the stories (like the Trayvon Martin one) have way more facets to cover as well as a dynamic nature since there was the lack of an initial arrest and rallies for "justice". And of course the media is going to cover every single antagonistic thing angry protesters say and do since it gets people angry, getting the other side riled up escalating the war of words and giving them more juicy shit to cover. Had those bored black teens not been initially arrested the same thing would have played out with white protests and the like. And the media would have been more than happy to cover that too.

Fair enough Prez, however I hate it that stations like NBC will doctor 911 calls to slant a news story. That isn't journalistic integrity. That's pushing an agenda.

It's a culture issue, yet everyone is too afraid to say that because they don't want to be branded racist by the left.

I don't recall you ever getting all riled up any of the countless times that Fox has pulled deceptive editing stunts, and they've got FAR more of those on their record than anyone else. Surely you couldn't possibly trust or respect Fox's reporting anymore.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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867. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 15:41 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 15:14:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 14:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Given some of your posts in this thread, I think you're largely oblivious to the insults you throw out. I don't think you're a reliable judge of whether your posts contained an insult or not.

Sure thing, posts that didn't name anyone or even quote anyone. Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary. Still waiting to see your spin on how it's so great!

This is tiresome. I've already explained that the rollout issues are not the program. Yeah, the website sucks. It'll get fixed. Yeah, some people can't keep shitty plans that don't cover anything and force taxpayers to cover them when they actually need care. Bummer. They'll get new plans. Some will pay a little more, some will pay a little less. Most folks like me have to pick a new plan every year anyway, so this is nothing new. Overall, it's better to have more people covered rather than the rest of us paying stupid amounts of money for them to be sick and get care from the emergency room.

Oh, and since you seem big on things being done by charity, here's something interesting on that subject.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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866. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 15:14 RollinThundr
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 14:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Given some of your posts in this thread, I think you're largely oblivious to the insults you throw out. I don't think you're a reliable judge of whether your posts contained an insult or not.

Sure thing, posts that didn't name anyone or even quote anyone. Still waiting for you to explain why Obamacare is such a great thing btw, given all the evidence to the contrary. Still waiting to see your spin on how it's so great!
 
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865. Re: removed Nov 2, 2013, 14:46 Wowbagger_TIP
 
D-Rock wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:04:
Prez wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 12:09:
And if Blue has a bias, why has he left all of the rest of yours , RT' s , and Mad Max' s posts?

You're assuming I mean political bias. You're wrong.

It all comes down to deciding who you like and who you don't like. Blue's behavior makes it clear how he feels about me. He's a poor moderator, and that contradicts the respectable attitude that's normally portrayed in in 'Out of the Blue'.

Prez, you've officially made my asshole list.
Lol! That's so meta.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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864. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 14:41 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Given some of your posts in this thread, I think you're largely oblivious to the insults you throw out. I don't think you're a reliable judge of whether your posts contained an insult or not.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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863. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 14:32 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:57:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.

Now that I think about it some more, your right. I have seen Blue remove posts that didn't have a personal insult but were off topic. Like a political rant on a post that isn't even close to being about politics. Since this thread is 863 posts mostly about politics I don't think that would be the case this time. Since I didn't see his post I can only assume it contained a personal insult. Either way, I'm against it.
 
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862. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 13:57 RollinThundr
 
Sepharo wrote on Nov 2, 2013, 13:51:
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.

He has Seph, he's removed at least a couple of mine that included zero personal insults at all. I've reported some of Nin's comments that are personal insults and nothing else, those are all still there.

It's Blue's site, he can moderate it as he sees fit imo, however the bias towards certain individuals is plain as day.
 
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861. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 2, 2013, 13:51 Sepharo
 
D-Rock, I've never seen Blue remove a post that lacked a personal insult. Are you sure yours didn't? Like Beamer mentioned, Blue tends to only moderate when prompted to do so, I guess someone reported your post, I've never done so myself.

Personally I'm against all post removal for any reason. There is another long thread on this site where some fundamentalist repeatedly called me a defender of pedophiles and other nastiness and it's still up because I'd rather it stand as a testament to the behavior of that poster.
 
Avatar 17249
 
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860. Re: removed Nov 2, 2013, 13:30 Beamer
 
I don't think Blue is even a very active moderator - I think he tends to go after what people report more than seek out things to remove. And I think he tends to err on the side of removal. I could be wrong, but it's how things have seemed (and there's nothing wrong with that policy - it expects us to be somewhat active in both controlling and policing ourselves.)

In any case, we've all been playing with fire in this thread and we've all known it.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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