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Morning Consolidation

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46 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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46. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 18:14 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 17:53:

Who's talking about purchasing anything?

Forced student labour used to build PS4s at Foxconn - report.

You know, the whole headline and news story you didn't read in your rush to gibber armchair politics.
 
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45. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 17:53 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 10:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 09:26:
Ad hom. as usual. Do you have a plan? Or anything to add to the discussion or are you just here to troll as usual?

Listen to them right now, finger pointing, NO ITS THE GOP, NO IT'S OBAMA! These guys are out of control, anyone with half a brain cell can see it. Wake the fuckup cuckcake.

Pointing out that your childlike 'insights' are not only self-contradictory but also have no depth or substance isn't an ad hom, go look up the definition. It's also ridiculously off topic even in the context of the labour discussion.

This news isn't going to make me avoid getting a PS4, North Americans have plenty of possessions built on the backs of glorified slave labour already and I don't need to make a personal political statement about every purchase choice.

Who's talking about purchasing anything? Why not contribute some solutions for once instead of telling others how wrong they are?
 
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44. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 14:44 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 13:47:
@Beamer,

While I agree that most consumer electronic products are built using similar processes to Apple, it is possible to produce electronics without slave labor or sweatshop conditions.

Gigabyte is an example of that. Their factory in Taiwan is immaculate, workers work normal schedules, get good pay and good benefits.

Apple, for example, could move their operations state-side. If they'd done it from the beginning, it would have cost them an extra $4.2b to produce 150 million iphones (since 2007), so you can see their motivation to use sweatshop conditions in China to produce them. But given that Apple has annual revenues of $150b per year, an extra $700m per year in costs to produce the iphone is certainly doable.

No no no no no.
I wasn't saying we shouldn't blame Apple because this is how things are done.
I was saying we shouldn't single out Apple because this is how things done.

Blaming just Apple bothers me not because everyone does it, so no big deal, but because everyone does it, so singling on company out just absolves the others by pretending they're not also wrong.

We need to blame everyone.

Also, I've been through more than a handful of China factories. Some are awful. Then there are ones like Lenovo. Do you know where new grads start at Lenovo? The factory floor. They're expected to spend a fixed amount of time (can't recall how long) building the product before they move into the white-collar roles, kind of that old American dream (that's long since dead) of going from the mailroom to the boardroom.

It's overkill, but proof that some companies aren't miserable. But even then, I'd wager Lenovo is doing some manufacturing in miserable places, or buying components that come from miserable places.
 
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43. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 13:47 jdreyer
 
@Beamer,

While I agree that most consumer electronic products are built using similar processes to Apple, it is possible to produce electronics without slave labor or sweatshop conditions.

Gigabyte is an example of that. Their factory in Taiwan is immaculate, workers work normal schedules, get good pay and good benefits.

Apple, for example, could move their operations state-side. If they'd done it from the beginning, it would have cost them an extra $4.2b to produce 150 million iphones (since 2007), so you can see their motivation to use sweatshop conditions in China to produce them. But given that Apple has annual revenues of $150b per year, an extra $700m per year in costs to produce the iphone is certainly doable.
 
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42. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 12:03 Creston
 
BobBob wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 18:35:
Once the third world populations start making demands, in come the robots.

http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22/robot-serves-up-340-hamburgers-per-hour/

That's actually pretty cool.
 
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41. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 11:55 Beamer
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 10:41:
This news isn't going to make me avoid getting a PS4, North Americans have plenty of possessions built on the backs of glorified slave labour already and I don't need to make a personal political statement about every purchase choice.

This is why I get confused when Cutter goes all anti-Apple on this (such as, here, making a joke about Sony being owned by Apple.)

Don't get me wrong, being angry at Apple for their manufacturing is a perfectly valid response, I just find it strange that he singles them out and passes some of the buck from Sony's shitty practices on to Apple rather than just calling Sony wrong, too.

The king of all of this would be Walmart, who singlehandedly forced an enormous amount of manufacturing jobs to China (in the 90s they were quite famous for actually telling companies they wouldn't carry products unless they shut down US manufacturing and sent it overseas so that Walmart could have the price point they wanted.) And Apple makes for a fine poster child as well. But they're far from the only ones, Sony is as bad with Foxconn, as is nearly every other manufacturer.

It's an industry issue, not an Apple one. Apple sucks, I don't like their products, I don't like their messaging, and I don't like their manufacturing, but I doubt anything I use doesn't have at least components that were made in Foxconn. Singling one company out as being wrong feels like it passes over the blame of all the others and makes it sound like it's just their problem and only they are wrong.
 
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40. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 10:41 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 09:26:
Ad hom. as usual. Do you have a plan? Or anything to add to the discussion or are you just here to troll as usual?

Listen to them right now, finger pointing, NO ITS THE GOP, NO IT'S OBAMA! These guys are out of control, anyone with half a brain cell can see it. Wake the fuckup cuckcake.

Pointing out that your childlike 'insights' are not only self-contradictory but also have no depth or substance isn't an ad hom, go look up the definition. It's also ridiculously off topic even in the context of the labour discussion.

This news isn't going to make me avoid getting a PS4, North Americans have plenty of possessions built on the backs of glorified slave labour already and I don't need to make a personal political statement about every purchase choice.
 
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39. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 09:26 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Oct 11, 2013, 09:03:
Chortle, we just needs to make people accountable (by shrinking government!) and everything will be fine!!

Ahhh to have such a simple world view.

Ad hom. as usual. Do you have a plan? Or anything to add to the discussion or are you just here to troll as usual?

Listen to them right now, finger pointing, NO ITS THE GOP, NO IT'S OBAMA! These guys are out of control, anyone with half a brain cell can see it. Wake the fuckup cuckcake.
 
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38. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 09:03 Redmask
 
Chortle, we just needs to make people accountable (by shrinking government!) and everything will be fine!!

Ahhh to have such a simple world view.
 
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37. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 11, 2013, 08:35 RollinThundr
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 19:03:
Axis, Thundr, no one is arguing for communism over capitalism, that's a straw man argument. The point is capitalism works best when it's regulated. Economies work best when the wealth is spread more evenly. Middle and lower class people spend their money, rich people do not. American worker productivity has doubled over the past 30 years, but adjusted salaries have only risen 0.2%. Yet the top 1% of earners have seen their salaries double. There is a growing rich-poor gap, and it's weakening the economy.

No it's not at all a strawman. While I don't at all disagree that you need to have regulations, we're at the point with government spending and government oversight into people's daily lives that is so far beyond what this country was founded on.

Stop blaming the rich, blame the politicians on both sides who are taking taking taking taking and giving us back nothing in return. The whole class warfare angle isn't bringing people together, it's a tactic to keep everyone fighting each other while they tighten the noose essentially.

We used to have journalist in this country that worked for the people, instead we now have to rely on NSA whistleblowers like Snowden because our great media is in the pocket of our lovely politicians.

The government is not your friend, they are not there to provide you a life. These assholes can't even balance a budget, perhaps if we stopped printing money left and right and handing out more and more welfare to people who honestly don't deserve it, the wage gap wouldn't have stagnated like it has.

Doing things how we're doing it now is unsustainable. That's just the reality of it.

And what's your idea of "spreading the wealth" taking from one class to hand to another? How about taxing that one class 100% and realizing that won't make a dent in our debt? Tax and spend, tax and spend, that's the liberal's guide right there. News flash it doesn't work, it hasn't worked and it will continue not to work.

Stop spending, reign in the debt, balance the budget, hold people accountable, shrink government, that's the only way it's going to improve.
 
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36. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 21:54 Cutter
 
I didn't know Apple owned Sony. This makes sense now.
 
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35. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:28 Beamer
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 19:15:
You say that but every time a farmer has put out a call for help to harvest how many American citizens do you think show up? Americans, even unemployed Americans, don't want to do it... Welcome to free market capitalism.

I'm sorry but migratory labor isn't a valid career option.

Nor are any migrant laborers going back to their home country and "retiring."
 
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34. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:17 Tom
 
Darks wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 12:25:
You guys can laugh and make joke about this all you want, but itís really depressing when you read about this. This is exactly why our economy is like it is. There is no way to compete with this type of slave labor and exactly why the Chinese are taking away our jobs.

Actually there are ways to compete with that type of slave labor. Manufacturing is moving back to the US in some areas. If you want to read a good article about this, check out the following:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/business/us-textile-factories-return.html
 
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33. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:15 PHJF
 
You say that but every time a farmer has put out a call for help to harvest how many American citizens do you think show up? Americans, even unemployed Americans, don't want to do it... Welcome to free market capitalism.

I'm sorry but migratory labor isn't a valid career option.
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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32. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:11 Beamer
 
It's odd that, in a topic mostly bashing China, people think others are advocating for Communism.

Not that China is truly Communist. Communist for the bottom, free market for the top.
 
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31. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:08 HorrorScope
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 19:03:
Axis, Thundr, no one is arguing for communism over capitalism, that's a straw man argument. The point is capitalism works best when it's regulated. Economies work best when the wealth is spread more evenly. Middle and lower class people spend their money, rich people do not. American worker productivity has doubled over the past 30 years, but adjusted salaries have only risen 0.2%. Yet the top 1% of earners have seen their salaries double. There is a growing rich-poor gap, and it's weakening the economy.

Yep. I've said it once I've said it a few times... you can give me a 25K raise right now and that would help you in the long run. I'll put all of that right back into the economy. Tax dollars for social needs. More product being consumed for employers needs. It's weird how we forget things like this as if we really aren't in control and there is a force that acts like breathing. While on the intake the economy thrives and the outtake it becomes lean. Aka.... cycle.
 
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30. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:03 jdreyer
 
Axis, Thundr, no one is arguing for communism over capitalism, that's a straw man argument. The point is capitalism works best when it's regulated. Economies work best when the wealth is spread more evenly. Middle and lower class people spend their money, rich people do not. American worker productivity has doubled over the past 30 years, but adjusted salaries have only risen 0.2%. Yet the top 1% of earners have seen their salaries double. There is a growing rich-poor gap, and it's weakening the economy.  
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29. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 19:03 HorrorScope
 
Darks wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 12:25:
You guys can laugh and make joke about this all you want, but itís really depressing when you read about this. This is exactly why our economy is like it is. There is no way to compete with this type of slave labor and exactly why the Chinese are taking away our jobs.

I agree, this is a very core issue for this country.
 
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28. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 18:55 Beamer
 
What immigrant actually makes something of themselves these days?
Without money, few people actually make money. Sure, some do, but few.
 
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27. Re: Morning Consolidation Oct 10, 2013, 18:35 BobBob
 
InBlack wrote on Oct 10, 2013, 10:56:
Im sorry but thats the price of rampant free-market Capitalism. The industry will shift its production to places where the labour is cheapest. Labour is cheapest in third world countries. Ironically this very practice propels those countries into the first world, while impoverishing the customer/consumer countries. Capitalism is not the be-all end all, Im sorry to say. Anyone who believes that is seriously misguided and doesnt want to read the writing on the wall.

Once the third world populations start making demands, in come the robots.

http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22/robot-serves-up-340-hamburgers-per-hour/
 
http://tinyurl.com/WeatherImmunity Whew
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