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NVIDIA: "No Longer Possible" for Consoles to Better PC Graphics

There's an NVIDIA Interview on PC PowerPlay Magazine titled "The Sky Isn’t Falling," as it hears from NVIDIA's Tony Tamasi about graphics cards, who tells them: "It’s no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC." Surprisingly, he says one of the reasons for this is that the console giants don't have the cash to compete in this area:

By the time of the Xbox 360 and PS3, the consoles were on par with the PC. If you look inside those boxes, they’re both powered by graphics technology by AMD or NVIDIA, because by that time all the graphics innovation was being done by PC graphics companies. NVIDIA spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a console’s lifecycle we’ll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research. Sony and Microsoft simply can’t afford to spend that kind of money. They just don’t have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year.

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73 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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73. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 26, 2013, 14:42 Xero
 
Honestly, the biggest problems I saw for PC graphics was more so back during the PS2 days. You had PS2 games coming out or fighting games that had more details in the character models or animations. You had individual fingers on the characters while most PC titles at the time were still lacking in that area. A lot of PC titles had characters with blocky and boxy graphics. I had a buddy that used to complain about that all the time and it wasn't that we lacked the power, we just lacked the graphic quality games unless they were ported over.
Nowadays everything on PC is greater than it's console parts generally although there are things you still would prefer on a controller any day over a mouse and keyboard. FPS is not one of them, lol.
 
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72. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 26, 2013, 07:48 Quinn
 
You made your point with your first comment already, UnderLord

Your "Consoles need PCs" argument sounds pretty solid. I never thought about it like that -- probably because I didn't bother myself with the thought -- but I'll keep it in mind the next time a console drone tells me how consoles > PCs. xD
 
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And I trembled.
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71. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 19:43 UnderLord
 
Btw, My 2006 prediction of AMD winning the console design wins this iteration is rather satisfying ;-)

All 'Unified memory' solutions sharing main memory with the GPu are a bloody disaster for both the CPU and GPU performance, and that includes consoles. It's just a penny pinching solution, nothing more.
Having said that, now that MS, Sony and Nintendo could get both GPU and CPU in a guaranteed interoperable form from the one company, what do you think of Nvidia and Intels chances in the next round of console development?
 
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70. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 18:44 UnderLord
 
I DID mention it Rather Often
Acer misses the point of the PC completely.
It is a CONTINUOUSLY evolving platform that provides the market and funding for ongoing development of the CPU, GPU and to a lesser extent, the rest of a PCs components.
A machine with a fixed spec is a console that has to have a stable period of years and won't fund development of next gen hardware until the next release, when the intervening development costs will be expected to be borne all at once by the purchasers.
And that plan just won't fly.
 
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69. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 18:40 UnderLord
 
also Regarding Games Developers
Tim is just wrong!
Do you seriously think that the hardware manufacturers are going to work hard on the next generation console CPUs and Graphics, selling nothing to the PC gaming market in the meantime, and then have a selling-price fight with console makers who have to pay the whole development costs of the intervening 5 years or so?
Bollocks!
The hardware guys NEED the PC market, they don't have any option, consequently the software guys had better get their heads out of their arses and help keep the PC well supplied with cutting-edge games that drive and fund the hardware development, or the next-gen consoles will be pieces of shit with no significant improvements over this gen'.
Then no-one will buy them and Epic etc' can sit and look at the stack of unsold boxes of games for consoles no-one wants.
 
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68. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 18:36 UnderLord
 
I've explained this very thing long ago in 2008
My Post
Actually, here's a thought, From one console generation to the next is usually a huge technology increment.
But that's not how the CPUs and GPUs are developed, they are the result of several smaller improvements in design and technology, each step paid for by sales of those incrementally improved products.
Without the PC as a gaming platform providing a market for those products to support this ongoing development, there wouldn't be compellingly better CPUs and GPUs for the next generation of consoles so either cycles would be MUCH longer and/or the next generation consoles more expensive as they have to pay for the new hardware development, or the market would be much less lucrative and not worthwhile.
So, I conclude that Consoles NEED PCs as gaming platforms and us PC gamers needn't worry at all.
 
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67. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 16:05 Creston
 
Hellbinder, you're a moron. But you knew this already, so whatever.


As for what Nvidia is saying, it seems kind of odd. The idea that MS couldn't afford to spend 1.5 billion dollars a year on ANYTHING is ludicrous. They probably spend that much on coffee. The reason MS and Sony don't do any R&D is because they can't upgrade their consoles even if they wanted to, so what's the point?

In any case, the PS4/180 will have, at most, parity with a decent gaming PC for about a year, and then they'll be left in the dust again on raw power. However, devs can wring some pretty impressive visuals out of decrepit hardware, as is demonstrated in GTA5. It has what I think is the most impressive looking water ever seen in a game.
 
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66. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 15:51 Prez
 
*About Hellninder's ridiculous ranting about nonsense...*

I'm starting to think you're just baiting here...

Ya think? That is ALL Hellbinder ever does. His latest nonsensical claim (5-7 years LMAO!!) is just further proof. Do NOT feed this particular troll. Really, you don't want to.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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65. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 15:10 HorrorScope
 
Hellbinder wrote on Sep 25, 2013, 10:56:
I'm still reading reams of bullshit in this thread.

People, *No* video cards out today blow away the hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One. nor will the ones released in the next 2-3 years. Higher resolution does not = better graphics. a Radeon 6770 can display the exact same graphics scene as a GeForce 780. The only difference is the Frame rate / resolution. Consoles don't play games at super high resolutions so its a moot point.

This is why this entire comment is completely full of shit. Games on the Ps4 and probably the xbox one will look as good or better in many cases than PC games for at least the next 3 maybe 4 years. in 5-7 years is when you will really start to see a difference. This is basically the same as it has always been.

Tablet hardware is not going to make any difference either. Not for at least 4-5 more years.

This will be proven wrong shortly after release. But to be on topic the article is about GPU's and it is unquestionable that my 760 is better than anything in the next gen's and there are still 3 classes higher than what I have and then the option of SLI. The Nvidia guys is talking GPU, and so am I. You are talking full system. That said, I'm willing to e-bet a top Intel Quad with a 780 will smoke next gen.

But GPU wise, we have specs on the next gen... not even close. It's about a $175 dollar card on the PC.

The only reason a next gen game will look better is because of a bad port.

It didn't take long at all for the PC to surpass last gens, not 5-7 years. Do you have a memory issue?
 
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64. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 14:55 saluk
 
Hellbinder wrote on Sep 25, 2013, 10:56:
Higher resolution does not = better graphics. a Radeon 6770 can display the exact same graphics scene as a GeForce 780. The only difference is the Frame rate / resolution.

Hold on. Are you arguing that being able to play at a higher framerate and a higher resolution is going to make PC games look WORSE than on console? Any game ported from PS4/xbone to pc is going to be able to run either at some combination of:
* higher framerate
* more particles
* higher resolution
* more powerful anti-aliasing (such as super-sampling, which is a higher resolution scaled down)

... and you argue that this will mean the pc games look WORSE?

That is highly illogical.
 
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63. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 11:07 nin
 
Hellbinder wrote on Sep 25, 2013, 10:56:
I'm still reading reams of bullshit in this thread.

People, *No* video cards out today blow away the hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One. nor will the ones released in the next 2-3 years. Higher resolution does not = better graphics. a Radeon 6770 can display the exact same graphics scene as a GeForce 780. The only difference is the Frame rate / resolution. Consoles don't play games at super high resolutions so its a moot point.

This is why this entire comment is completely full of shit. Games on the Ps4 and probably the xbox one will loot as good or better in many cases than PC games for at least the next 3 maybe 4 years. in 5-7 years is when you will really start to see a difference. This is basically the same as it has always been.

Tablet hardware is not going to make any difference either. Not for at least 4-5 more years.


"In all honesty many of you are nothing but foul mouthed little twits whos parents apparently taught nothing and need a really big bar od soap to wash your mouths and brains.

Sad what you all are becoming.. really."

Hellbinder, May, 09

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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62. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 10:56 Hellbinder
 
I'm still reading reams of bullshit in this thread.

People, *No* video cards out today blow away the hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One. nor will the ones released in the next 2-3 years. Higher resolution does not = better graphics. a Radeon 6770 can display the exact same graphics scene as a GeForce 780. The only difference is the Frame rate / resolution. Consoles don't play games at super high resolutions so its a moot point.

This is why this entire comment is completely full of shit. Games on the Ps4 and probably the xbox one will look as good or better in many cases than PC games for at least the next 3 maybe 4 years. in 5-7 years is when you will really start to see a difference. This is basically the same as it has always been.

Tablet hardware is not going to make any difference either. Not for at least 4-5 more years.

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 2013, 11:02.
 
The Whales name is Bob.
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61. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 06:06 yuastnav
 
maximus0402 wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 21:31:
It doesn't pay off. It always is a pain in the butt to get the PC version just right . It's never hassle free. Been dealing with the PC on games for 23 years . I guess I am just tired of all the driver updates and config to get them running as it should. Believe me I prefer control of keyboard and mouse ect especially shooters or any fps. Just tired of qllbthebothervdyuff you gotta deal with for a PC . Now I am sure you'll come back and tell me that you never have issues with any games on PC ect. I guess will see how more games like witcher 3 are handled pc vs console. It's even less about graphics and more about control differences to me.

Yeah, it's never hassle free, but I don't really see the problem. Nothing ever goes completely smoothly but most of the time the problems are really minor that can be fixed rather quickly.
The only slightly more annoying problems that I ever have is installing proprietary nvidia drivers on my Debian machine and getting Windows to play with truecrypt (although that only works half the time, for some reason...).
And I've been a PC gamer for as long as you have.

But maybe the difference is that I actually enjoy hacking my machine...

[edit]
Though if playing games is the ONLY thing you want to do then you actually barely have any problems at all. Build PC, install OS, install drivers, install games - go. *shrug*
 
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60. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 25, 2013, 00:14 Suppa7
 
maximus0402 wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 21:31:
It doesn't pay off. It always is a pain in the butt to get the PC version just right . It's never hassle free.

I'm sorry but it's been hassle free since about 2001. Ever since fucking windows XP. Anyone who complains about PC gaming is a fucking moron computer illiterate newb that shouldn't be gaming on PC anyway.

The reality is that 99% of comments about the crappyness of PC gaming are coming from people who are tech illiterate and have cheap computers that their parents bought them.

Anyone that has any inkling of basic understanding of PC's should not have had a problem for the last decade.

The era between 1995-2001 was where there were serious issues regarding PC gaming. PC games haven't had major issues in a long fucking time. Win XP and Windows 7, and steam have made gaming easy as fucking pie.

Anyone who complains is a fucking butthurt retard fanboy. Trying to justify his feelings of his attachment to console hardware. Which is deeply irrational.
 
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59. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:39 HorrorScope
 
maximus0402 wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 21:31:
It doesn't pay off. It always is a pain in the butt to get the PC version just right . It's never hassle free. Been dealing with the PC on games for 23 years . I guess I am just tired of all the driver updates and config to get them running as it should. Believe me I prefer control of keyboard and mouse ect especially shooters or any fps. Just tired of qllbthebothervdyuff you gotta deal with for a PC . Now I am sure you'll come back and tell me that you never have issues with any games on PC ect. I guess will see how more games like witcher 3 are handled pc vs console. It's even less about graphics and more about control differences to me.

Hey if you can't hack it. Personally I don't know what you speak of. Win 7 has taken the ease to a whole new level. I'm not having much any issue, sort of surprised you are. The biggest deal I have is honing in m/k setting for each game for optimal play. I talked a friend the other day into PC Gaming vs console... for his kid. There is some real payoff in this world being real comfortable on a PC, consoles have zero payoff there.

You don't even need to install the latest drivers often, only if you hit a no-play issue with a game, that's been pretty rare for me. But really this is a big issue these days? Must be the luckiest pc owner. Mine install and once in a blue moon a beta driver causes an issue, just hop back to a previous then, they added the clean install option to make it super simple.

You are correct, my bottom line is more about control. I'd have/be on a console if they were mouse centric. But fuck if they don't force you on anything but. Like WTF did a mouse ever do except revolutionize once invented? And taken to another level with mouselook? I mean really now.
 
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58. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:31 maximus0402
 
It doesn't pay off. It always is a pain in the butt to get the PC version just right . It's never hassle free. Been dealing with the PC on games for 23 years . I guess I am just tired of all the driver updates and config to get them running as it should. Believe me I prefer control of keyboard and mouse ect especially shooters or any fps. Just tired of qllbthebothervdyuff you gotta deal with for a PC . Now I am sure you'll come back and tell me that you never have issues with any games on PC ect. I guess will see how more games like witcher 3 are handled pc vs console. It's even less about graphics and more about control differences to me.  
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57. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:27 HorrorScope
 
Rea1One wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 21:17:
It wont be long until the day comes where mobile gaming is on par with high end PC and Nvidia will be there proud of their accomplishment.

Nvidia Tegra will surpass the Xbox One and PS4 in due time.

Then it comes down to size and input devices. Today I like the pc better than the mobiles because of those two reasons. I like the pc better than everything else simply because of k/m and I know I'm not alone on that one.

Pads.... Portable DVD players on steroids to me. I don't have a real issue with them, just a total different experience, so far it hasn't taken any of the itch away from PC gaming, not a bit.
 
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56. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:23 HorrorScope
 
maximus0402 wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 21:19:
Some of you guys are missing the point. Sure the video cards blow away what consoles are today and maybe next generation after that. But what difference does it make when the game makers are designing games to work on consoles best and don't really put much effort on PC version nor support it long. You can brag all you want but the reality is it doesn't matter as game developers aim for where the money is, and that's consoles.

Well it has mattered. I like AA, I like higher FPS, I like higher rez's, I like all options on, I like better textures. Even though we are hamstrung by older consoles, even sub par ports we get better all of that and to me that is a big deal. For example we know GTA V is going to be better on the PC, even if it's a half assed port?

Not sure how this is forgotten or debatable. The PC's versions most of the time are better. Performance 1. Visual Quality 2. Now it could be even better but the brute force pays off... like it should.

And the point of the article is that now the consoles aren't coming out ahead of the PC from the start, because the console makers aren't spending enough to get the best. Made sense to me.
 
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55. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:19 maximus0402
 
Some of you guys are missing the point. Sure the video cards blow away what consoles are today and maybe next generation after that. But what difference does it make when the game makers are designing games to work on consoles best and don't really put much effort on PC version nor support it long. You can brag all you want but the reality is it doesn't matter as game developers aim for where the money is, and that's consoles.

Also video fidelity has really plateau'd and there isn't too much more to gain that's anything significant. Not unless the approach thing differently and go a different direction like some hologram tech or virtual reality is standard and improved
 
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54. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 21:17 Rea1One
 
It wont be long until the day comes where mobile gaming is on par with high end PC and Nvidia will be there proud of their accomplishment.

Nvidia Tegra will surpass the Xbox One and PS4 in due time.

This comment was edited on Sep 24, 2013, 21:23.
 
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