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NVIDIA: "No Longer Possible" for Consoles to Better PC Graphics

There's an NVIDIA Interview on PC PowerPlay Magazine titled "The Sky Isnít Falling," as it hears from NVIDIA's Tony Tamasi about graphics cards, who tells them: "Itís no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC." Surprisingly, he says one of the reasons for this is that the console giants don't have the cash to compete in this area:

By the time of the Xbox 360 and PS3, the consoles were on par with the PC. If you look inside those boxes, theyíre both powered by graphics technology by AMD or NVIDIA, because by that time all the graphics innovation was being done by PC graphics companies. NVIDIA spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a consoleís lifecycle weíll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research. Sony and Microsoft simply canít afford to spend that kind of money. They just donít have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year.

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33. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:33 jdreyer
 
Hellbinder wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 12:51:
Total bullshit. The consoles are 8 core CPUS with upper mid range GPUS that have exactly the same graphics capabilities of the most expensive cards on the market today. the only difference would be frame rates at ultra high resolutions.

In fact the consoles will have better graphics than 99.9% of PC games for the next few years at least because of the advantage of development and expertise on a closed system.

have you watched any PS4 demos lately?

1. The same "8 core" CPUs that AMD has been selling to PC makers for years?
2. The same PS4 demos that have been running on Windows?

There may be some benefits you can get from developing for a single set of hardware, but

1. Those benefits take years to learn, by which time advances in PC hardware technology has far outstripped any gains to be had.
2. Almost all games are designed for more than one platform these days, making it much more difficult or even impossible to take advantage of any such gains.
 
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32. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:31 John
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 12:54:
Gaming on phones or tablets is growing, but is it growing at the cost of PC gaming? Is less being spent on PC gaming now than 5 or 10 years ago? All the people I know who game on their mobile device either sill do as much PC gaming as ever or wouldn't do PC gaming regardless of what their mobile device offers.
I used to do a good bit of mobile gaming on my cell phone and tablet, but I have pretty much gotten over it and prefer my PC or console. I hardly ever play any mobile games anymore unless I'm away from home.
 
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31. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:23 saluk
 
Hellbinder wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 12:51:
HorrorScope wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 11:57:
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 10:05:
So says the company who's chips aren't powering the newest consoles. Coincidence?


So says he's right. It really is maste rof obvious, but sometimes saying it puts it more in perspective. They are not going to pay for top of the line GPU's, they weren't willing to pay for a GPU this generation in their console that surpassed what is in PC's today. Hence his MOO statement.


Total bullshit. The consoles are 8 core CPUS with upper mid range GPUS that have exactly the same graphics capabilities of the most expensive cards on the market today. the only difference would be frame rates at ultra high resolutions.

In fact the consoles will have better graphics than 99.9% of PC games for the next few years at at least because of the advantage of development and expertise on a closed system.

have you watched any PS4 demos lately?



THAT's total bullshit. Consoles will have better graphics than mid-range pcs for a couple years, but that doesn't mean a lot. This is the first generation that the consoles are not significantly higher specced than a typical gaming pc. The demos are not very impressive either, mostly looking a little better than the pc versions of the earlier titles.

This is just grandstanding by the company that didn't get a contract this time around, but it happens to be right. In the past, consoles have had custom parts and chips and a lot of R+D has gone into making them superior. The N64 with it's silicon graphics, the ps2 with it's emotion engine. The Ps4 and xbox one are almost quite literally upper mid-range or lower high-end pc's.
 
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30. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:21 jdreyer
 
Ludomancer wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 11:01:
I don't recall any point in time when consoles threatened the quality of PCs, and I regularly play both.

Well, certainly PC hardware has continued to improve at its usual pace, but any game made for both console and PC has suffered. Had the same game been made for PC's exclusively, they would have been both better looking and more expansive. Crysis looks more detailed than Crysis 3, for example. And you can't even do Arma 3 on Console without serious distance limiting and pop in. You'd be able to see a couple hundred feet, whereas on PC you can see a couple miles.
 
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29. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:19 avianflu
 
PC gaming will be doing fine for the next several years because it is a niche market and Steam has successfully marketized that gaming consumer:

it is dedicated gaming hardware of any sort that will be gradually losing to tablets (and by extension cellphones for obvious reasons) in just a few years. Come to NYC -- it is very apparent. Tablets get passed around indoors -- not just used for mobile these days. Yea I know its annoying but the trend is undeniable.
 
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28. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 13:05 Acleacius
 
damn it, science and math always getting in the way of my console delusions of grandeur  
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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27. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:54 Quboid
 
Some people do use iPads in their work, although it might just be for show.

Gaming on phones or tablets is growing, but is it growing at the cost of PC gaming? Is less being spent on PC gaming now than 5 or 10 years ago? All the people I know who game on their mobile device either sill do as much PC gaming as ever or wouldn't do PC gaming regardless of what their mobile device offers.

There's bound to be some who have replaced (partially or wholly) PC gaming. There are probably a few who have taken up PC gaming after being introduced to video games on their phone. My guess is that mobile gaming is essentially a whole new market and the effect it has on the PC gaming market is negative, but fairly insignificant compared to the general evolution of PC gaming and will continue be so.
 
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26. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:52 InBlack
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 10:38:
While what Nvidia says is true, in reality the best GPU isn't gonna mean shit if you need 1000 artists employed for 3 to 5 years to make a big AAA title.

What's limiting graphics isn't the GPU, it's the cost, time and manpower needed to make that superior looking gfx...

There is no ecomony of scale when it comes to modeling or texturing.

Have you seen Rome II?? Which console game looks half as good?
 
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25. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:51 Hellbinder
 
HorrorScope wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 11:57:
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 10:05:
So says the company who's chips aren't powering the newest consoles. Coincidence?


So says he's right. It really is maste rof obvious, but sometimes saying it puts it more in perspective. They are not going to pay for top of the line GPU's, they weren't willing to pay for a GPU this generation in their console that surpassed what is in PC's today. Hence his MOO statement.


Total bullshit. The consoles are 8 core CPUS with upper mid range GPUS that have exactly the same graphics capabilities of the most expensive cards on the market today. the only difference would be frame rates at ultra high resolutions.

In fact the consoles will have better graphics than 99.9% of PC games for the next few years at least because of the advantage of development and expertise on a closed system.

have you watched any PS4 demos lately?

This comment was edited on Sep 24, 2013, 13:15.
 
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24. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:45 Hellbinder
 
wow i had no idea that nvidia was a bigger company than Microsoft and Sony. They have 1.5 billion dollars a year to spend on R&D alone.. that is amazing....

yeah that was sarcasm... look up the numbers for yourself.

One reason i have always chosen ATI over Nvidia is every time anyone opens their mouth at that company it is to tell some red faced lie. That's what they are best at lies and cheating on benchmarks.

 
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23. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:35 avianflu
 
Yes but go to a major university -- young people with money and gadgets -- tablets everywhere, cellphones, and ultrabooks. The changes are rapid wherever there is disposable income. Those are your consumers for gaming hardware, not the business enterprise.  
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22. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:23 Beamer
 
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 12:07:
BUT as someone else said here, tablets are overtaking gaming in the **broader global consumer** marketplace. 2 years or even sooner. We at Blues may not like that, but that is where the dev money is going. In a way indie-devs and cellphones are to blame. Cheap to make games and the public wants them.

I'm still skeptical. These are the same kind of quotes I heard a few years ago, about tablets taking over the workplace. And you know how many people in the org I work for, that use a tablet, and no other computer? Zero, out of about five thousand.


I've never heard anyone say tablets would overtake the marketplace.

But it is true that tablets are the fastest growing segment of gaming, that there's more money being spent on them than handhelds, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are far more hours spent gaming on them than on PCs.

No company has figured out how to be profitable on them, though. Maybe Epic somewhat has with Infinity Blade, but that's one series with 3 games.
 
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21. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:16 McTurbo
 
I think that your trying to mix 2 different markets. just cause mobile gaming is becoming more popular for casual players. your mom and pop angry birds, play some spades, or a game of texas holdem on pokerstars, doesnt mean they are going to drop the current model of gaming or even change it.

If anything it will adapt and become more complex to more emulate the console style games. Real gamers play on the pc and thier chosen console.. with some bleedover as they are at work or travel on the mobile.. to me thats not a statement that mobile gaming is getting stronger.. but that gaming in general is getting stronger. its passed up the movie industry already a few years ago.

PC's are not going anywhere, and sooner or later consoles will finally admit to being limited pc's and we can play the same games across all platforms with little to no differences between the platforms.

(come on graphene cpu's!) if graphene becomes the next big thing and we actually do see 1thz computers.. your cellphone will be at least a 100-500 ghz machine... thats a future to look forward too! (now add a oculus rift thats advanced 10 years in hardware and gaming looks good in the future!!!)
 
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20. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:07 nin
 
BUT as someone else said here, tablets are overtaking gaming in the **broader global consumer** marketplace. 2 years or even sooner. We at Blues may not like that, but that is where the dev money is going. In a way indie-devs and cellphones are to blame. Cheap to make games and the public wants them.

I'm still skeptical. These are the same kind of quotes I heard a few years ago, about tablets taking over the workplace. And you know how many people in the org I work for, that use a tablet, and no other computer? Zero, out of about five thousand.

 
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19. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:02 Steele Johnson
 
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 11:24:
I wouldn't be surprised if this gen's consoles flop compared to last gen.

After both selling out, months in advance? Doubt it. There's clearly a demand.

BTW, GTA5 made a billion dollars last week.


Right, that's current gen, where there's already a very large install base. I believe both PS4 and XBONE won't have backwards compatibility. By the time next gen consoles have triple A title that some people might care about, tablets will be the most popular gaming platform for the casual gamer.
 
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18. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 12:00 avianflu
 
nin, I agree that the consumer interest is there for the new home (non portable) consoles. It will be a solid holiday sales season for them at launch no question.

BUT as someone else said here, tablets are overtaking gaming in the **broader global consumer** marketplace. 2 years or even sooner. We at Blues may not like that, but that is where the dev money is going. In a way indie-devs and cellphones are to blame. Cheap to make games and the public wants them.

PC gaming is actually growing and solidifying into solid year-to-year sales -- in spite of a giant global recession. Still niche, but not dead or dying.

It is the new home consoles that will have a rocky path, not PC's.
 
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17. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 11:57 HorrorScope
 
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 10:05:
So says the company who's chips aren't powering the newest consoles. Coincidence?


So says he's right. It really is maste rof obvious, but sometimes saying it puts it more in perspective. They are not going to pay for top of the line GPU's, they weren't willing to pay for a GPU this generation in their console that surpassed what is in PC's today. Hence his MOO statement.
 
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16. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 11:40 Slick
 
nin wrote on Sep 24, 2013, 10:05:
So says the company who's chips aren't powering the newest consoles. Coincidence?


nope, the sky is falling.

also, 1 day before the new ATI cards are announced. *cough*
 
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15. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 11:24 nin
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this gen's consoles flop compared to last gen.

After both selling out, months in advance? Doubt it. There's clearly a demand.

BTW, GTA5 made a billion dollars last week.

 
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14. Re: NVIDIA: Sep 24, 2013, 11:20 Steele Johnson
 
This topic is moot considering that most games are ported from consoles anyway, and you'd be lucky to get any real graphics enhancements from the port.

Also, why would Sony and MS push gfx hardware like that when mobile games are starting to be more profitable?

It's all about the tablet these day. In 2014, tablets are going to outsell pcs/macs for the first time. That's the new consumer platform that game devs will be focusing on. I wouldn't be surprised if this gen's consoles flop compared to last gen.
 
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