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Op Ed

Rock, Paper, Shotgun - To Boycott PAX Or Not To Boycott PAX?
To Boycott PAX Or Not To Boycott PAX? That really is the question these days, isn’t it? The saga, up to this point, has been long, turbulent, and ugly. Penny Arcade’s tangled two-headed hydra of a creative force has been at the forefront of some pretty nasty movements over the years – the Dickwolves incident, which saw Mike “Gabe” Krahulik and Jerry “Tycho” Holkins stand resolutely unapologetic over a rape joke that made many fans deeply uncomfortable (instead of saying sorry, they went and sold freaking merchandise), easily stands as the most visible. In the wake of that, similar incidents, and Krahulik acting vocally intolerant of transgendered people, Gone Home developer Fullbright – who we spoke to in regards to this article – went so far as to pull out of this year’s PAX altogether. But others – many of whom absolutely abhor Penny Arcade’s oftentimes turgid stances and values – attended despite all of that. Speaking with developers behind games like Journey, Always Sometimes Monsters, and Child of Light, and other fans and critics from many walks of life, I found out why.

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93 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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93. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 17:05 Beamer
 
It's entertaining to see how often he's mentioned me since I put him on ignore. I feel like any time I pop into a thread someone is quoting him and my name is there.  
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92. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 16:39 Redmask
 
I'm not here to make you feel appreciated and I just respond to what is posted. You can't drop a big hypocrisy bomb and think everyone is going to forget context just because it makes you look goofy. You'll notice I didn't respond to your post in today's thread because you didn't say anything I disagreed with, think about it.

 
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91. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 16:22 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 16:03:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:56:
My bad you sound so much like Beamer in most posts, all chest pumping and vitriol, little actual discussion that I didn't realize you were two separate people

Not really, you're just very poor at reading and interpreting text apparently.

No I just don't appreciate being attacked personally on a post by post basis. I get it, you think all I do is troll and that's fine. It's your opinion.
 
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90. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 16:03 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:56:
My bad you sound so much like Beamer in most posts, all chest pumping and vitriol, little actual discussion that I didn't realize you were two separate people

Not really, you're just very poor at reading and interpreting text apparently.
 
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89. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 15:56 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:48:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:39:
Sure thing Bea..Red. sure thing. Serious question, do you ever get tired of trying to pile on people that you disagree with or is it a hobby of yours?

You're misspelling my name, it's Redmask, there is no B in it. Hope that helps, cheers.

My bad you sound so much like Beamer in most posts, all chest pumping and vitriol, little actual discussion that I didn't realize you were two separate people
 
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88. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 15:48 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:39:
Sure thing Bea..Red. sure thing. Serious question, do you ever get tired of trying to pile on people that you disagree with or is it a hobby of yours?

You're misspelling my name, it's Redmask, there is no B in it. Hope that helps, cheers.
 
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87. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 15:39 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 15:33:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 14:41:
Game reviews and game forums with occasional political leaning topics in a thread aren't the same thing. Stop being obtuse for the sake of it.

Don't worry, the RPS guys have a ways to go before they catch you in terms of personal causes and political spinning. They're not quite there yet.

Sure thing Bea..Red. sure thing. Serious question, do you ever get tired of trying to pile on people that you disagree with or is it a hobby of yours?
 
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86. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 15:33 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 14:41:
Game reviews and game forums with occasional political leaning topics in a thread aren't the same thing. Stop being obtuse for the sake of it.

Don't worry, the RPS guys have a ways to go before they catch you in terms of personal causes and political spinning. They're not quite there yet.
 
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85. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 14:41 RollinThundr
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 13:48:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 11:45:
Says the same few people that generally add nothing to a conversation but little troll digs on a regular basis. All while whining that someone who doesn't share their opinion was mean to them or whatever. Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hmm well...

Game reviews aren't the forum to air political viewpoints.

What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander apparently.

Game reviews and game forums with occasional political leaning topics in a thread aren't the same thing. Stop being obtuse for the sake of it.
 
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84. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 13:48 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 11:45:
Says the same few people that generally add nothing to a conversation but little troll digs on a regular basis. All while whining that someone who doesn't share their opinion was mean to them or whatever. Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hmm well...

Game reviews aren't the forum to air political viewpoints.

What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander apparently.
 
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83. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 12:40 Agent.X7
 
Prez wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 20:54:
Kosumo wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 20:34:
"I have empathy for anyone who is abused ...."

Oh Yeah, we can totally tell that!

Pretty unfair - having empathy for victims and being put off by people who get offended too easily are not mutually exclusive. Just my two cents.

Thank you.
 
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STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
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82. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 11:51 RollinThundr
 
yuastnav wrote on Sep 20, 2013, 03:53:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:29:
yuastnav wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 17:23:
Prez wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 17:07:
Well I completely disagree Yuastanav, but hopefully we can agree to disagree rather than start a flame war.

I miss the days when reviews told me just the basics, like was it enjoyable, or was it a slog? Does it keep you playing or did it bore you to tears? Was performance acceptable, or did it chug at times when a lot was going on? Was it stable, or did it crash your computer? Did you feel you got full price value out of it (or more), or did you feel like it was over-priced? How about the story, the setting, the dialog, the voice acting, etc? I couldn't care any less if you think that a game about gangsters is misogynist, or a game based in the Middle East involves too much shooting of brown people. How fucking useless is that? Like I said I find it not only annoying, but arrogant and pretentious as well, as if I need you to illustrate your moral superiority or tell me I should feel the same way about these things. Any reviewer who does it will never get read by me again, and I am pretty sure I have seen each and every hack at RPS do it, so yeah, they suck.

Yeah, I guess we just disagree on that issue.
I find it interesting to read such things because if it's something really jarring then I'd like to know because then I'll know not to buy this product and give the devs who hold such views money.
On the other hand it's almost guaranteed that some pissed off gamers will post their opinions on some forums.

No one is really immoral (apart from people who may not have any morality at all); we all have our own set of standards, sometimes they might be the complete opposite of each other so personally I don't think that they are trying to be pretentious or morally superior.

But yeah, that's just how I feel about it.

Why are the developer's views even a factor? Do you play games because you enjoy them or to critique them on their political merits?

Heck why do you feel entitled to know what a dev has to weight in on any political notion? Has zero to do with the product.

Prez is pretty spot on here not just on game reviews but in general.

I am talking specifically about games where it clearly shines through what kind of views the ones who are responsible for this product hold.
If I play a game where it's blatantly obvious that it's sexist/misogynistic/racist/homomisic/whatever then this is going to have a serious impact on my enjoyment of that product.
Of course it depends on the kind of context we are talking about. Social commentary or critique is one thing but when it's done "just because" or especially when these are the real views of the developers then I don't want to have anything to do with it.

Please name me one game in the last 3-4 years that has a political message that isn't either obvious satire, or a game like GTA where people know what they're getting before they go in?

Video games are the last place we should be pushing political agendas. RPS is one of the few sites that seems to have some fairly politicized staff sprinkling half their posts with political commentary. You don't see that often if at all when it comes to game news sites, and they don't hide the fact.

 
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81. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 11:45 RollinThundr
 
nin wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 22:15:
Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 22:12:
trollindunder wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:24:
Redmask wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 18:25:
trollindunder wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 16:40:
Game reviews aren't the forum to air political viewpoints.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.

Forums themselves are a different manner. A professional video game review is completely different. Not taking the bait pal.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.


Was having a drink and just about shot water out of my nose, reading that - kudos!


Says the same few people that generally add nothing to a conversation but little troll digs on a regular basis. All while whining that someone who doesn't share their opinion was mean to them or whatever. Hello pot, meet kettle.

 
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80. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 09:49 Redmask
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 22:12:
The irony in this post is overwhelming.

This seems appropriate for that alarming hypocrisy
 
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79. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 04:17 InBlack
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 16:52:
Yuastnav, I think you are missing InBlack's point. If he punched people in the face then he would be personally responsible. If he raped someone, he would be personally responsible. If he made a joke about rape which inspired someone else to rape somebody, he would not be personally responsible - the rapist would be.

I think that's InBlack's point, I may be wrong. I don't agree with it, I do agree with the importance of personal responsibility* but I don't think that precludes consideration and sensitivity. The crime is not the joke-maker's fault, legally or morally, but that doesn't mean they weren't being a dumb-ass.

* of course, everyone thinks they agree with it.

Yeah thats pretty much what I meant. Not that I would be insensitive enough to actually deliberately talk rape jokes in front of rape victims, but thats just one example and not necessarily a good one. People behave differently in a closed circle of friends and around strangers for example. Behaving like an ass and letting off steam in front of strangers is not exactly good manners but its not paramount to inciting hate crimes...

This comment was edited on Sep 20, 2013, 06:21.
 
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78. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2013, 03:53 yuastnav
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:29:
yuastnav wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 17:23:
Prez wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 17:07:
Well I completely disagree Yuastanav, but hopefully we can agree to disagree rather than start a flame war.

I miss the days when reviews told me just the basics, like was it enjoyable, or was it a slog? Does it keep you playing or did it bore you to tears? Was performance acceptable, or did it chug at times when a lot was going on? Was it stable, or did it crash your computer? Did you feel you got full price value out of it (or more), or did you feel like it was over-priced? How about the story, the setting, the dialog, the voice acting, etc? I couldn't care any less if you think that a game about gangsters is misogynist, or a game based in the Middle East involves too much shooting of brown people. How fucking useless is that? Like I said I find it not only annoying, but arrogant and pretentious as well, as if I need you to illustrate your moral superiority or tell me I should feel the same way about these things. Any reviewer who does it will never get read by me again, and I am pretty sure I have seen each and every hack at RPS do it, so yeah, they suck.

Yeah, I guess we just disagree on that issue.
I find it interesting to read such things because if it's something really jarring then I'd like to know because then I'll know not to buy this product and give the devs who hold such views money.
On the other hand it's almost guaranteed that some pissed off gamers will post their opinions on some forums.

No one is really immoral (apart from people who may not have any morality at all); we all have our own set of standards, sometimes they might be the complete opposite of each other so personally I don't think that they are trying to be pretentious or morally superior.

But yeah, that's just how I feel about it.

Why are the developer's views even a factor? Do you play games because you enjoy them or to critique them on their political merits?

Heck why do you feel entitled to know what a dev has to weight in on any political notion? Has zero to do with the product.

Prez is pretty spot on here not just on game reviews but in general.

I am talking specifically about games where it clearly shines through what kind of views the ones who are responsible for this product hold.
If I play a game where it's blatantly obvious that it's sexist/misogynistic/racist/homomisic/whatever then this is going to have a serious impact on my enjoyment of that product.
Of course it depends on the kind of context we are talking about. Social commentary or critique is one thing but when it's done "just because" or especially when these are the real views of the developers then I don't want to have anything to do with it.
 
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77. Re: Op Ed Sep 19, 2013, 23:05 Jerykk
 
Overreactions beget overreactions. Feminists overreacted to the mention of rape in a web comic whose punchline had nothing to do with rape. The PA guys overreacted to that by making T-shirts featuring the mythical Dickwolves.

What's humorous/sad is that neither side recognizes the absurdity of all this. They both think their reactions were perfectly justified and in no way excessive. Now RPS is overreacting by boycotting PAX. The cycle continues.
 
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76. Re: Op Ed Sep 19, 2013, 22:15 nin
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 22:12:
trollindunder wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:24:
Redmask wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 18:25:
trollindunder wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 16:40:
Game reviews aren't the forum to air political viewpoints.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.

Forums themselves are a different manner. A professional video game review is completely different. Not taking the bait pal.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.

Was having a drink and just about shot water out of my nose, reading that - kudos!

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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75. Re: Op Ed Sep 19, 2013, 22:12 Quboid
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:24:
Redmask wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 18:25:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 16:40:
Game reviews aren't the forum to air political viewpoints.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.

Forums themselves are a different manner. A professional video game review is completely different. Not taking the bait pal.

The irony in this post is overwhelming.
 
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- Quboid
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74. Re: Op Ed Sep 19, 2013, 21:39 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 19, 2013, 21:24:
Forums themselves are a different manner. A professional video game review is completely different. Not taking the bait pal.

Anything to justify your hypocrisy, gotcha understood.
 
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93 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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