Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Valve Remains Bullish on Linux

Gabe Newell gave a keynote address at LinuxCon in New Orleans, where the Valve managing director was highly critical of Windows while reiterating Valve's support for Linux as a gaming platform, reports Ars Technica. He says there will be a tangible demonstration of this soon: "Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room." Valve confirmed plans for a Linux Steam client last year and not long after Newell famously labeled Windows 8 a "catastrophe." He also predicts a PC hardware shakeup. "I think we'll see either significant restructuring or market exits by top five PC players. It's looking pretty grim," he said. "Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems."

View
40 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >

40. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 18, 2013, 13:06 Verno
 
Re: Verno and copy. Pausing is amazing.

Not really. There is no queuing or method of actually having the transfer continue automatically when the prior finishes. It's just a very basic pause feature, nothing more. There is nothing "amazing" about it. It's better than the previous one but its a very minor quality of life improvement at best. Using flowery language to describe mundane features and minor improvements isn't going to change anyones mind.

As has been mentioned the only major feature update in Windows 8 is Metro which isn't well received with enthusiasts and casual users alike. So it's really no surprise that people don't find Windows 8 to be a substantial update worth spending a lot of money on. When it was $40 I recommended people pick it up and disable what they don't like, essentially treating it like a cheap copy of Windows 7. Now that it's more expensive that makes no sense and thus many people are not bothering.

As for whether Microsoft needs to innovate I would say yes they do. They need to do something with vision instead of hastily cobbling together a user interface to ape Apple. People don't use computers the same way anymore and no longer upgrade without a major benefit in doing so. Apple can get away with iterative updates for awhile after showing people new ideas and concepts, Microsoft hasn't really done that in a long time and doesn't get the same luxury.

Regardless no one is upset that Windows 8 didn't turn water into wine. Just don't ask people to get excited about a new task manager, copy dialog and seconds boot time shave. Constantly accusing people of ignorance because they don't share your enthusiasm for a bunch of minor improvements that they are asked to pay for is pretty silly. No one sits here drooling about the minor iterations in the Linux kernel after all.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2013, 13:17.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
39. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 18, 2013, 11:01 Burrito of Peace
 
Fuck it, who cares.

I like bacon. Who doesn't like bacon? Bacon is fucking awesome. I know militant vegans who've crossed the line for bacon.

We need a game about bacon. That comes with a scratch and sniff sticker that, of course, smells of bacon. The soundtrack of the game is nothing but one long audio file of bacon sizzling in a pan. Oh, yeah, there should be a coupon in the case for a pound of free bacon. None of that pre-order shit, either. You buy the game, you get bacon. End of fucking story.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2013, 11:48.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
38. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 18, 2013, 09:21 Enahs
 
OS updates now are incremental...And there were a lot of other major incremental improvements in Win 8 from a OS standard.
Seriously, except from 3.1 to 95, and then to the NT kernal, all windows updates have been incremental. Why are people expecting other difference.

Re: Verno and copy. Pausing is amazing.

Re: Burito, yeah, so you ask me to name a few and I do, and include links to features I like, then harass me for not linking to tech articles. Despite the fact that the last one is a tech article, and the kernel link would obviously be a tech article if I was not to lazy to find it. Grasping at straws.

And no, the searching is not the same in Win 7 but with different indexing parameters. That just goes to show you know nothing about . the system, and that the claim that you can do the same things in Win 7 is laughable.

And so what if the task manager is close to process explore. Which I have both it and process monitor on my desktop. Wonderful programs. The more featured task manager is awesome, but not everything. You are now complaining that the new improvements built into the OS are not completely new ideas thought up by nobody else? Or done nowhere else? Then if that has to be the case, why the F are people asking for Linux to be better at gaming? That is done on the PC with Windows already. According to your argument, it is a waste of time then! The Linux OS better figure out a way to make a ham sandwich from air to actually bring something new!
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
37. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 18, 2013, 08:47 Verno
 
The copy dialog improvements are actually pretty useless. You can't properly queue items in any order, it's all or nothing. You can't have an item unpause as another one finishes. The best improvement is that initiating a copy doesn't bring the machine to a grinding halt but that's really more of something they should have fixed long ago as opposed to something they get extra credit for. As usual people are better served with third party applications. The new task manager is mostly a collection of third implementations and while useful is more of a "duh" addition. The under the hood improvements are nebulous and largely unreflected in benchmarks. The boot time improvements are negligible on many systems, particularly those with SSDs.

It is basically a collection of minor improvements, the only real standout feature is Metro and well Metro sucks. Sorry Shean it does. The interaction between the desktop and Metro is terrible, Metro as a sole interface method is subpar and your championed index feature was already included in Windows 7. They couldn't even get that right, segregating items behind categories which makes for further input, something they're finally undoing in Windows 8.1. But hey, they took the time to ad some advertisements to the operating system and its default apps at least, that's uhhhhh good right?

Windows 8 is a very minor improvement on Windows 7 and a dubious upgrade proposition at $100+. It's no wonder OEMs are upset, many have followed Microsofts vision and instead Microsoft has blamed them for poor sales performance.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 18, 2013, 04:57 Soulburner
 
Windows 8 is alright. I do not believe in tests people supposedly performed on others that conclude this OS is bad.
From my experience, more people like Win8 than hate it.

When Windows 7 was released most people said it's Windows Vista with an updated user interface. That it's a service pack. Suddenly, at some point in time, Win7 began to be regarded the best Windows ever released. Why? I don't know, maybe people just got used to it?

Windows 8 is not perfect. The difference between Metro and Desktop is still jarring. Metro apps are mostly useless, at least on a desktop PC. But things like the new copy window, new explorer, task manager, WIN+X menu, speed improvements (not just the boot time but also something as mundane as starting Computer Management, for example), video driver model updates (the screen is no longer turned off during logoff), better support for large external disks (explorer showing the real copy speed to a 32GB pendrive - Win7 will sometimes copy a big file quickly but then pause at 99% for a while), checkdisk no longer taking hours on a volume that needs fixing, PowerShell improvements, etc.... these are all very good things and a significant improvement over Windows 7.

Would I recommend every Windows 7 user to upgrade to Windows 8? Nope. But I wouldn't recommend upgrading to Windows 7 from Vista either.


Regarding Linux gaming - I believe it's a great idea and I'm happy to see Valve pushing for it. Many home users avoid Linux distributions because of problems with games. If more games support this OS, more people will use it and it will help both Linux and Windows because competition is always a good thing and having more options doesn't hurt. It would also be interesting from a performance perspective: is Windows the best optimized system for games? Based on what Valve said about Left4Dead tests it may not necessarily be so.


edit - @Burrito of Peace: indexing is not enabled for all locations. Only user folders, like appdata, documents, downloads, desktop, etc. Just like it always has been. Task manager improvements are based on Mark Russinovich's Process Explorer application, but - oh no, cannot be! - he's a Microsoft employee. Doesn't matter if he was Sysinternals nearly a decade ago.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2013, 05:02.
 
Avatar 43517
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
35. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 23:20 Burrito of Peace
 
Enahs wrote on Sep 17, 2013, 16:40:
Major improvements to the built-in search feature.

By "major improvements" you mean Microsoft simply turned on indexing for everything by default instead of off as it was in Windows 7? Sorry, Enahs, that doesn't cut it. If I do the same thing in Windows 7, I am just as "fast" as you are in Win8.

Further, task manager improvements were originally done by an application called Process Explorer done by Sysinternals...that Microsoft bought. You are literally using a third party tool not developed by Microsoft and giving Microsoft the credit for having done so.

You may like Windows 8, and more power to you, but cheerleading it with features that aren't in any way new or radical, or not even developed by Microsoft at all, isn't going to convince people like me who sat down with it, gave it a fair shake and came up with a multitude of technical reasons of why it was inferior to Windows 7.

That doesn't even include the fact that your average user, business or consumer, hates...HATES...the UI and feels as though they are being treated like a particularly retarded child.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
34. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 19:52 Redmask
 
Wow, really stretching there. Service pack junk and underlyings that you can't even personally quantify without referring to tech articles. Minor UI improvements to a few programs does not a $150 OS make. I have done this anecdotal test where users attempt 1 task - to use Windows 8 for 10 minutes. Most give up in frustration and revert its most major feature into Windows 7. Fail.

It's Windows 7 with a fresh coat of paint. That might have been fine in the past but this time the color of the paint was shit stain brown and people were asked to like it.
 
Avatar 57682
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
33. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 16:40 Enahs
 
Dev wrote on Sep 17, 2013, 08:43:
I've seen the list of things that MS has added to win 8, they are mostly LOL. But if you want to list off a few of your favorites, go for it.
My favorites:
Improved file manager and transfer options. Including pausing:


Improved task manager, with crazy amount of new features for power users:



Improved memory usage


New kernel improvements....That linux and Mac have had forever. I got tired of finding links.

Major improvements to the built-in search feature. To find a file, movie, music, or program, all I have to do is hit the meta (Windows) key, and type in a few letters, and I have it.

I have done this test with literally dozens of people who argue about it, and we assign 10 tasks of finding a certain file, loading a specific application, finding a file containing a certain word, changing a configuration setting, etc, etc. With the improvements in Win8 I am always an order of magnitude faster then people who do not use that feature, or the more limited version in Win 7. It makes the system more multi-tasking friendly! Really, get over that it is different and try it and give it a fair chance!
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 08:52 Verno
 
The biggest sin Windows 8 makes is the poor interop between Metro and the desktop. Things people used for years like moving a file by dragging no longer work. For the enthusiast this is an annoyance, for the casual user this renders it almost unusable. It's hilarious that disabling Metro makes most people think it's Windows 7. What did Metro bring to the mix anyway? Nothing. It's just a bog standard tablet UI.

This comment was edited on Sep 17, 2013, 09:42.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
31. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 08:43 Dev
 
Enahs wrote on Sep 16, 2013, 20:46:
Despite the interweb people screaming how bad Win 8 is, and how doomed Microsoft is, they continue to report profit (including the Windows division). Win 8 is selling decently well, enough to be profitable, which is great considering there is no actual reason to upgrade to Win 8. And again, Win 8 added a lot of great things.

I think all the Microsoft naysayers really should look at the facts and not the hyperbole spit out about Microsoft on the internet. No they are not perfect. And yes, it is human nature to root against the big man and for the underdog. But open your eyes people!
I've hated everything I've personally experienced with win 8. Everyone I know who has tried it has reacted the same way, from technically inclined to technically clueless. Computer stores are doing a booming business in downgrading new computers to windows 7. Stardock has made a giant financial recovery in large part due to the start8 utility.
I've seen the list of things that MS has added to win 8, they are mostly LOL. But if you want to list off a few of your favorites, go for it.
I've also amused myself looking at the list of features that MS removed.

This comment was edited on Sep 17, 2013, 08:49.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
30. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 08:41 Verno
 
NKD wrote on Sep 17, 2013, 00:00:
Yeah. Not holding my breath for the Linux adoption Catch 22 to be resolved any time soon.

I don't know, I actually run very few "desktop" software applications anymore outside of games. I basically use the web, maybe watch a few videos and run basic apps that are available everywhere. I find myself not really caring about paying for an operating system I barely use anymore, particularly when it's own maker seems about ready to admit defeat and just move onto tablets.

What they really need to overcome is the development unification that DirectX provides and finding a way to actually get a Steam style appliance into more casual markets.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
29. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 07:18 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
I would love to switch to Linux and still be able to play all, or even most of my games. I really have no desire to keep supporting windows, especially when the future plans for the desktop that Microsoft has admitted to so far look so horrible for the end users.

The main problem with Linux is so few developers seem willing to code their games to run natively in it, or even run acceptably in WINE. Not to mention ancillary bullshit like Punkbuster, which blocks any attempt to emulate a lot of games in Linux.

People need to actually start moving in the direction of Linux before Microsoft is able to completely lock down PCs with their DRM/paywall schemes.
 
Avatar 54863
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
28. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 06:48 Wesp5
 
KilrathiAce wrote on Sep 17, 2013, 00:56:
Hey Gabe, people want half life 3, stop your jibberish about operating systems and future and get to work.

My thoughts exactly! But as Valve only lives of Steam and not of the few commercialised mods they released over the last few years, it's obvious that any threats to Steam are critical to Newell. As for the death of the desktop, I'll never believe that. Everyone needs work to be done on computers now and then and this will done on desktops, not on consoles and not on tablets either. But probably every household has one by now, while there is still room on the console and tablet front!
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
27. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 06:40 El Pit
 
I wonder whether MS is stupid enough to forget about Valve being a strong reason for people to buy Windows. Then again I think of Windows RT and all that nonsense in Windows 8 (which is a good os after installing classic shell), and I KNOW that Macrohard is that stupid.  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
26. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 06:11 dj LiTh
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Sep 17, 2013, 01:29:
All this is about is Valve not getting locked out in case the MS app store takes off. Right now it's crap, but 3 OS revisions from now it might be a big deal and that is what Gabe's thinking about.

+1
 
Avatar 46370
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
25. Re: HL3 for Linux? :P Sep 17, 2013, 05:01 InBlack
 
Did he just say that Microsoft is going down the tubes? Pretty bold statement, even from Gabe Newell....  
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
24. HL3 for Linux? :P Sep 17, 2013, 03:58 Ant
 
Maybe HL3 will be released on Linux FIRST.  
Avatar 1957
 
Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx and Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net ...
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 01:29 Creston
 
Unless a team of some 500+ guys are going to be sitting around porting everything to Linux, I don't think it's ever really going to catch on the way Gabe hopes...

 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 01:29 Silicon Avatar
 
All this is about is Valve not getting locked out in case the MS app store takes off. Right now it's crap, but 3 OS revisions from now it might be a big deal and that is what Gabe's thinking about.
 
Avatar 18037
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: Valve Remains Bullish on Linux Sep 17, 2013, 01:27 Grifter
 
2nd_floor wrote on Sep 16, 2013, 23:08:
I think gaming is not only about Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux anymore, but now the idea of the desktop computer itself, no matter what OS is on it, is now at risk. The living room is I think getting more and more popular. I can't imagine a time where desktop/enthusiast PCs are not common for gaming, but are sales and stats not showing the decline of the desktop for gaming, vs. whatever device in the living room?

actually there have been recent reports that have shown that desktop pc sales are actually in decline, but pc high end component sales are on the rise. The desktop is being transformed from a general use system for everyday users to more of an enthusiast machine.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
40 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo