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Op Ed

Penny Arcade - Some Clarification.
There are people who were offended by or hurt by the joke in the strip and rather than just let it go we decided to make a second strip. That was a mistake and I apologize to this day for that strip. It was a knee jerk reaction and rather than the precision strike back at our detractors that we intended, it was a massive AOE that hurt a lot of innocent people. We should have just stopped right then but we kept going and made the merchandise. Had we left it alone, the ongoing tension about the whole thing might have subsided but Robert made the call to pull the shirts. In hindsight all this did was open the wound back up and bring on a whole new wave of debate. Any action we took at the time just dug us deeper regardless of what it was. What we needed to do was stop. just stop. I apologized for it at the time and I will still apologize for it. Everything we did after that initial comic strip was a mistake and I regret all of it.

PC & Tech Authority - Penny Arcade, Mike Krahulik, dickwolves, and fear of PAX.
But his apologies are not enough, and his actions do not exist in a vacuum. He has abetted the creation of a community that wants to be Team Rape. And I’m not being figurative, here; a Twitter account under that very name represented all those who felt their ‘free speech’ was being threatened. @teamrape exhorted others to wear their dickwolves t-shirts proudly, to actively shout down their so-called oppressors. The amount of sheer hate on display was... abhorrent. It is quite literally almost impossible for me to read through, even now.

Wired.com - Why I'm Never Going Back to Penny Arcade Expo.
In the midst of the 2011 dickwolves controversy, a vocal Penny Arcade fan who went by the Twitter handle @Teamrape wrote, “And remember, since @cwgabriel [Krahulik] will wear his dickwolves shirt, it’s okay to wear yours. We will show those that want to crush free speech.”

Mike Krahulik is not a brave upstart defending freedom of speech, even if that’s a defense Penny Arcade has hidden behind time and again. Freedom of speech is not and never has been in danger here: Krahulik has every legal right to be shitty to rape survivors and trans*people and react like a child told he can no longer break the other kids’ toys. There is no law preventing him from flaunting the fact that he has a lot more financial and social power than the people criticizing him for abusing it; nor is anyone arguing that there ought to be.

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106 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 4.
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46. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:42 Beamer
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:25:
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

You ever been to the ghetto?

Rest assured, if it mentioned crime specific to those areas, it would have also had backlash.
 
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45. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:41 Beamer
 
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

You put it pretty well.
 
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44. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:35 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Atomic wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 15:36:
Too much talk here about the comic. This isn't about the comic, which in context was a pretty good scathing commentary on the lack of morality in video games. This is about their childish and continued insipid response to being criticized.

Exactly. That someone was horribly offended by the original comic is kinda retarded. That a lot of people have been offended by PA's insipid, adolescent, self-righteous response to criticism isn't.

All they had to say was "A few people were offended by our Dickwolves comic, and for that we are sincerely sorry. To be clear, we do not take rape lightly. But on the other hand, this is a comic, comedy has often offended, intentionally or not, as far back as Aristophanes, and that means occasionally we're going to say something that is upsetting to some. Our intent is to amuse and inform, not hurt, but in the course of the former, the latter is occasionally going to happen. And again, for that we are sorry."

Had they done that, they would have taken the moral high ground and there would have been no controversy. Instead, they started babbling about free speech and censorship, when nothing of the sort was being infringed, resorted to provocative and insulting behavior, and then merchandized the whole controversy. That Krahulik then turns around a few years later to say that he regrets eventually putting the middle finger away, by ending the sale of Dickwolf merchandise, suggests that he is a petty, petty man.

I honestly don't care about the dickwolves comic, and think people often seek out ways to be offended, but Krahulik has revealed himself to be a pretty ugly, childish, and small person over the course of this controversy.
 
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43. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:25 xXBatmanXx
 
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

You ever been to the ghetto?
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
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42. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:10 Parallax Abstraction
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 11:54:
Alright, he's now said he was sorry, so we can let the whole fucking issue go and it need never ever ever ever ever be fucking mentioned again.

This is about the fourth time he's apologised. Maybe if he's keep his mouth shut and stop doubling down on the stupid, people would actually think he's sorry. That's the funny part, this keeps getting reignited not because other people keep bringing it up but because Krahulik keeps talking abotu it and sticking his foot further in his mouth. He needs to shut up.
 
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41. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:03 mag
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.
 
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40. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:00 xXBatmanXx
 
Elf Shot The Food wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 11:01:
You seem to be the only person who's upset here. I'm perfectly calm.

WAVING THE FUCKING GUN AROUND!?

/heh, anyway. THIS is what people get upset about in regards to PA? Wow.....just wow.....
 
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39. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 15:53 mag
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:20:
Thanks for the links. My opinion remains unchanged. Yeah, the second strip is a little over the top, but isn't that the whole theme of their site? Whatever.

Yeah, I dunno. I have no great love for PA--I disagree with their taste in games, I'm not a big fan of Gabe's latest art style adjustments, and I do think they have some, uh, tolerance issues--but I didn't understand the flap over this comic. It's pretty obviously a joke that uses rape to exaggerate an aspect of MMOs rather than a joke about rape.

But I'm not a person that ever has been or ever will be subject to any sort of sexual assault (same as most of you, being that you're probably predominantly guys), so I don't think it's fair for us to just say, "Pff, whatever, it's not offensive. Fuck off."

The problem is that there was never really a conversation. It was just "PA condones rape!" vs. "Don't censor us!" And even worse is that this put PA on the side of people (and this is surely not them) who really are of the opinion that "Pff, what's so bad about rape?" And those aren't really... good allies to have.

And on the other side you do have the legions of the Professionally Offended (Jezebel, Sinfest, blah blah), and that weakens their arguments when there really is a legitimate issue, and that's what the vociferously-anti-feminist find ways to attack.
 
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38. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 15:40 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 15:34:
It all starts with the overly sensitive PC folks getting annoyed/upset with the first comic -- not understanding the comic was commenting on MMOs and not anything else. But, whatever. I think I fully understand the situation here and I'll do what they couldn't and stop contributing to it.

It was a comment on MMOs that could have been made in a separate way. Rape jokes are usually comments on something other than rape. They're still rape jokes. Patton Oswald recently came out acknowledging that, while vehemently defending them for years, he was wrong to do so.

But, as others are pointing out, it wasn't really the initial comic that was the issue. It was poorly thought out, but no one went on a rampage over that comic. People complained, but it wasn't a huge deal. It was the reaction that turned it into a huge deal. Then it was the t-shirts. And now it's what he said at PAX.
 
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37. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 15:36 Atomic
 
Too much talk here about the comic. This isn't about the comic, which in context was a pretty good scathing commentary on the lack of morality in video games. This is about their childish and continued insipid response to being criticized.
 
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36. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 15:34 Mr. Tact
 
It all starts with the overly sensitive PC folks getting annoyed/upset with the first comic -- not understanding the comic was commenting on MMOs and not anything else. But, whatever. I think I fully understand the situation here and I'll do what they couldn't and stop contributing to it.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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35. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:56 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Well, I don't think anyone other than Cutter is saying PA condones it, but I'd also wager there are more people walking around out there that have the lingering memories of being raped than there are that have the lingering memories of being brutally murdered by being fed into a woodchipper.

It gets back to the "triggering" argument that you seem to be misunderstanding.
 
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34. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:44 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:37 noman
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:52:
I believe it was taken down. It basically goes like this:

A fancy Tauren hero strolls along, whistling as he's about to exit a cave. A poor downtrodden human figure asks him for help, as his existence is sheer torture, because he and his family are forced to work all day in the mines, and then they are "gently raped to sleep by the Dickwolves" at night.

The Tauren hero says "Sorry man, I was contracted to rescue five of you guys, not six."

The figure pleads some more, and the Tauren finally says "Buddy, don't make this weird."


That's all it was. CONTROVERSY ABOUNDS!

Actually it was the second comic that came as a response to the complaints that I find quite an idiotic flame-bait, and one that required an unconditional apology from PA guys. Follow the third link (Wired.com blog) in today's "Op Ed" section.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:27 Agent.X7
 
Cutter wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:40:
PropheT wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:15:
Cutter wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:06:
There is no such thing as free speech. There is protected speech. Big difference. I'll never understand the mentality of these self-entitled 'It's America so I can do whatever the fuck I want and fuck personal responsibility!' attitude. Krahulik needs a severe beating. Like a year in a hospital, major surgeries, crippled for life kind of beating. Then he might just realize there are consequences to actions.



I've got to be honest, when I see a post like that it makes me wonder why I'd ever want to be part of the same community it comes out of.

Well, thanks for letting us know you're pro-rape and pro-asshole. On ignore you go.


Forgot your meds again today, I see.

Because someone is against someone else being beaten to the point of crippling him for life just for voicing an opinion makes them pro-rape? And you think other people don't understand consequences, Jesus.
 
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31. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:23 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:20:
Thanks for the links. My opinion remains unchanged. Yeah, the second strip is a little over the top, but isn't that the whole theme of their site? Whatever.

Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is. That is why they are not fans of PAX - because it is connected to an over the top themed site.
 
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30. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:20 Mr. Tact
 
Thanks for the links. My opinion remains unchanged. Yeah, the second strip is a little over the top, but isn't that the whole theme of their site? Whatever.  
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29. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 14:14 mag
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:53:
Thanks, Creston. Yep, as I guessed -- much ado about nothing. The PC world running amuck once again.

The comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/11

People got upset.

The response: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/13

People got more upset.

Then they made Dickwolves branded merchandise.

People got ultra upset.

They took the Dickwolves merch away.

OMG CENSORSHIP

And that was the end of it, until it got brought up again at PAX.
 
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28. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 13:53 Mr. Tact
 
Thanks, Creston. Yep, as I guessed -- much ado about nothing. The PC world running amuck once again.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2013, 13:58.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 13:52 Creston
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 13:40:
Okay, I totally missed this -- anyone have a link to this supposedly offensive dickwolves strip? From what I've read it sounds like much ado about nothing -- but then I've haven't seen the strip.

I believe it was taken down. It basically goes like this:

A fancy Tauren hero strolls along, whistling as he's about to exit a cave. A poor downtrodden human figure asks him for help, as his existence is sheer torture, because he and his family are forced to work all day in the mines, and then they are "gently raped to sleep by the Dickwolves" at night.

The Tauren hero says "Sorry man, I was contracted to rescue five of you guys, not six."

The figure pleads some more, and the Tauren finally says "Buddy, don't make this weird."


That's all it was. CONTROVERSY ABOUNDS!
 
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106 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 4.
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