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Op Ed

Penny Arcade - Some Clarification.
There are people who were offended by or hurt by the joke in the strip and rather than just let it go we decided to make a second strip. That was a mistake and I apologize to this day for that strip. It was a knee jerk reaction and rather than the precision strike back at our detractors that we intended, it was a massive AOE that hurt a lot of innocent people. We should have just stopped right then but we kept going and made the merchandise. Had we left it alone, the ongoing tension about the whole thing might have subsided but Robert made the call to pull the shirts. In hindsight all this did was open the wound back up and bring on a whole new wave of debate. Any action we took at the time just dug us deeper regardless of what it was. What we needed to do was stop. just stop. I apologized for it at the time and I will still apologize for it. Everything we did after that initial comic strip was a mistake and I regret all of it.

PC & Tech Authority - Penny Arcade, Mike Krahulik, dickwolves, and fear of PAX.
But his apologies are not enough, and his actions do not exist in a vacuum. He has abetted the creation of a community that wants to be Team Rape. And I’m not being figurative, here; a Twitter account under that very name represented all those who felt their ‘free speech’ was being threatened. @teamrape exhorted others to wear their dickwolves t-shirts proudly, to actively shout down their so-called oppressors. The amount of sheer hate on display was... abhorrent. It is quite literally almost impossible for me to read through, even now.

Wired.com - Why I'm Never Going Back to Penny Arcade Expo.
In the midst of the 2011 dickwolves controversy, a vocal Penny Arcade fan who went by the Twitter handle @Teamrape wrote, “And remember, since @cwgabriel [Krahulik] will wear his dickwolves shirt, it’s okay to wear yours. We will show those that want to crush free speech.”

Mike Krahulik is not a brave upstart defending freedom of speech, even if that’s a defense Penny Arcade has hidden behind time and again. Freedom of speech is not and never has been in danger here: Krahulik has every legal right to be shitty to rape survivors and trans*people and react like a child told he can no longer break the other kids’ toys. There is no law preventing him from flaunting the fact that he has a lot more financial and social power than the people criticizing him for abusing it; nor is anyone arguing that there ought to be.

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106 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 3.
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66. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 20:40 mag
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:25:
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

You ever been to the ghetto?

Edit: I worded this reply terribly. But, Beamer said it well enough.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2013, 20:48.
 
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65. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 20:38 Zyrxil
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:56:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Well, I don't think anyone other than Cutter is saying PA condones it, but I'd also wager there are more people walking around out there that have the lingering memories of being raped than there are that have the lingering memories of being brutally murdered by being fed into a woodchipper.

It gets back to the "triggering" argument that you seem to be misunderstanding.

No, there are actually quite a lot of people saying PA and anyone supporting PA are rape-lovers. Check the people arguing with TotalBiscuit in the last few days. And that's why this whole thing is as big as it is- who the fuck wants to apologize a bunch of nutters like Cutter? Make death threats all day and equate a non-related comic as equivalent to a real life crime, yeah, that's real sane. Fuck em. If it were possible separate the sane people from the insane in the crowd, to have a conversation about it, it would never have gotten this far. But, SJWs gonna SJW.

Atomic wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 15:36:
Too much talk here about the comic. This isn't about the comic, which in context was a pretty good scathing commentary on the lack of morality in video games. This is about their childish and continued insipid response to being criticized.
The criticism is what was stupid and insipid. Let me pose an analogous a scenario:
A: "I believe that the state acted niggardly with the emergency aid and..."

B: "I cannot believe you used that racial slur! I lived through the times when blacks could not drink from white water fountains, and I had thought those days were long gone. I demand you apologize right now!"

A: "Hrm? What? I'm sorry, I don't understand....Oh oh, I see. Now, I assure you, that is not what the word means. I am very much against racism and I urge people right now never to use racial epithets."

C, D, E, F, G: Death threats. Death threats against A's children. Ironic rape threats.

A: "Are you goddamn kidding me? Fuck all y'all. I'm not apologizing for something I didn't do."

C, D, E, F, G: Cutter^2 level of death threats.

A: "Here's a middle finger for you, one for you, and one for you. Here's a bunch of shirts with the goddamn word and it's dictionary definition. Who's with me?!"

H, I, J, K, L: "All right, shirts to show we're not with them!"

M, N, O, P, Q: "Hey, they're profiting off racism! Racist! Quick, get Jesse Jackson, we can make the evening edition!"

B: *Tiptoes away*



Yeah, from a professional public relations point of view, PA handled it terrible. From a personal satisfaction point of view, fuck Social Justice Warriors looking for a headline, and fuck people who blindly follow them.
 
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64. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 19:53 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 18:04:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:57:
I moved and expected to be in temporary housing for 2 weeks, so most of my stuff went into storage for that time.

2 weeks stretched into 90+ days.

Damn, that's quite a move. Well, at least you didn't miss much on the PC front, except Saints Row 4, I guess. All the rest of the good stuff is still coming!

Yeah, but he could have spent that past three months playing Aliens: Colonial Marine. He'll never get that opportunity back.
 
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63. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 19:51 Agent.X7
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 19:26:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 11:54:
Alright, he's now said he was sorry, so we can let the whole fucking issue go and it need never ever ever ever ever be fucking mentioned again.

Especially on a news site about games... Penny Arcade are as much Gamers as I am the King of Odyssia. Stop Mentioning Penny Arcade ^^

Oh, you get to decide that for everyone, do you? I've had people tell me I'm not a gamer because I haven't played any Madden games. Or because until recently I hadn't tried Minecraft. Or because whatever dufus reasoning they come up with.
 
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62. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 19:49 Agent.X7
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 19:21:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:52:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:00:
There was nothing sincere or apologetic about the second comic.

You think so. I think differently. To me the second comic is their way of apologizing for controversy when it hits their site. They've done it before in the past. But it's a boring topic, and I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me, so :-shrug-:

Perhaps they need to be less ambiguous in the sincerity of their apologies then, because it seems like every 12-18 months, they say something dickish, then double down, reject all criticism, act all victimized, and then finally issue an apology that strikes a lot of people as sarcastic. Look I get that they have a "style", namely of fulfilling all the worst stereotypes about gamers, but unless they find that this shit actually GAINS them fans, then they should probably get some better PR people, or at the very least start behaving like adults.

HAHAHAHAHA, acting like adults, hahahahahaha. Good one. Have you met many adults lately? I own a retail store. My 3 year old acts more civilized than 75% of my customers. I'm sure Batman can tell you just how adults act as well. I know a few LEOs, and they love humanity in all of it's colorful "adulthood."

Krahulik has admitted he has an issue with being defensive. His first, knee-jerk reaction is always to be a giant asshole. Then he ends up apologizing and usually winds up giving a ton of money to charity. Then you have the other side of the coin, where I doubt most of the detractors have done much about anything except bitch on the internet. I'm not defending him because I don't really know him, and because he doesn't really seem like he needs it. It just irritates me how many people read the headline and stop, then come out bitching.
 
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61. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 19:26 eRe4s3r
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 11:54:
Alright, he's now said he was sorry, so we can let the whole fucking issue go and it need never ever ever ever ever be fucking mentioned again.

Especially on a news site about games... Penny Arcade are as much Gamers as I am the King of Odyssia. Stop Mentioning Penny Arcade ^^
 
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60. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 19:21 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:52:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:00:
There was nothing sincere or apologetic about the second comic.

You think so. I think differently. To me the second comic is their way of apologizing for controversy when it hits their site. They've done it before in the past. But it's a boring topic, and I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me, so :-shrug-:

Perhaps they need to be less ambiguous in the sincerity of their apologies then, because it seems like every 12-18 months, they say something dickish, then double down, reject all criticism, act all victimized, and then finally issue an apology that strikes a lot of people as sarcastic. Look I get that they have a "style", namely of fulfilling all the worst stereotypes about gamers, but unless they find that this shit actually GAINS them fans, then they should probably get some better PR people, or at the very least start behaving like adults.
 
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59. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 18:04 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:57:
I moved and expected to be in temporary housing for 2 weeks, so most of my stuff went into storage for that time.

2 weeks stretched into 90+ days.

Damn, that's quite a move. Well, at least you didn't miss much on the PC front, except Saints Row 4, I guess. All the rest of the good stuff is still coming!
 
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58. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:58 Agent.X7
 
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

Who defends rapists? I mean, who actually thinks out right rape is OK other than frat-boys with expensive lawyers?

 
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57. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:57 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:52:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:04:
After 3 months, I finally get my desktop back next week.
I'm probably going to game until I die for the immediate 24 hours following. Too much to catch up on!

3 months?? What the heck happened to it??

I moved and expected to be in temporary housing for 2 weeks, so most of my stuff went into storage for that time.

2 weeks stretched into 90+ days.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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56. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:52 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:04:
After 3 months, I finally get my desktop back next week.
I'm probably going to game until I die for the immediate 24 hours following. Too much to catch up on!

3 months?? What the heck happened to it??
 
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55. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:52 Creston
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:00:
There was nothing sincere or apologetic about the second comic.

You think so. I think differently. To me the second comic is their way of apologizing for controversy when it hits their site. They've done it before in the past. But it's a boring topic, and I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me, so :-shrug-:
 
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54. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:25 jdreyer
 
Was going to write some stuff, but Mag, Atomic, Parallax, & some of what Beam said pretty much sum up my feelings.  
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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53. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:18 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Well, in fairness there are no murder survivors. If there were, they'd probably be up in arms.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2013, 17:23.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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52. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:04 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:52:
Time to play games!

After 3 months, I finally get my desktop back next week.
I'm probably going to game until I die for the immediate 24 hours following. Too much to catch up on!
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
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51. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 17:00 Scottish Martial Arts
 
There was nothing sincere or apologetic about the second comic. To say that being flippant and abrasive is their style may explain why they thought they could get away with it, but it also explained why it only inflamed the situation.

If you took serious offense to something I did or said, and my apology consisted of a smirking "Yeah, I'm SO sorry about, dude, lol!" and then high fived a friend on the way out the door, you'd rightly think I was an adolescent piece of shit, even if that was "my style."
 
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50. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:52 Creston
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:35:
All they had to say was "A few people were offended by our Dickwolves comic, and for that we are sincerely sorry. To be clear, we do not take rape lightly. But on the other hand, this is a comic, comedy has often offended, intentionally or not, as far back as Aristophanes, and that means occasionally we're going to say something that is upsetting to some. Our intent is to amuse and inform, not hurt, but in the course of the former, the latter is occasionally going to happen. And again, for that we are sorry."

Had they done that, they would have taken the moral high ground and there would have been no controversy.

Not to belabor the point, but that is basically exactly what they did with the second comic. They just did it in their "style." People who've read PA for years saw that's what they were saying.

I don't agree with all the other crap they did, but at the same time, they got attacked for the first comic, and then when they apologized for it, in their style, they got lambasted by that exact same crowd.

But in any case, it's almost weekend. Time to play games!
 
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49. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:49 Redmask
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:00:
/heh, anyway. THIS is what people get upset about in regards to PA? Wow.....just wow.....

Not really, this is just dumb stuff PA does that gets peoples attention. The so called whiners weren't banging down the door, Mike is the one reopening the issue over and over again. I don't hate PA, it's just an old webcomic that stopped being funny years ago. Mike is just a doofus with the sort of really dumb opinions that you don't air publicly.
 
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48. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:48 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:56:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Well, I don't think anyone other than Cutter is saying PA condones it, but I'd also wager there are more people walking around out there that have the lingering memories of being raped than there are that have the lingering memories of being brutally murdered by being fed into a woodchipper.

It gets back to the "triggering" argument that you seem to be misunderstanding.

No, I understand it alright, but quite frankly, most of the people for whom it would trigger would grind their teeth together and move on. Likely a large percentage of those who complained about the comic in the first place are people who never suffered through that tragedy to begin with, but have become some kind of Knight in their own mind that need to fight against people using the word "rape" in any kind of context.

Anyway, I had a huge bunch more, but eh, it's a stupid topic and a stupid argument. I never had an issue with the original comic, I can understand that it was possibly hurtful to people who suffered through that ordeal, I don't think PA ever saw it as anything but a joke on MMOs, I don't think the second comic they did was anything but a "PA-Style" way of apologizing, people have gone waaaaaay too far with being upset over it to the point where they're writing articles saying that Mike and Jerry should be treated as Hitler because of it, because let's not remember that they started Child's Play or give scholarships to people, or their 'enterprise' currently employs fifteen people, and finally, I agree that Mike really really needs to shut the fuck up about it.

 
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47. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 16:43 NKD
 
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

Rape is certainly more common. However the rest of your points I disagree with. In the US, murders happen disproportionately to minorities (esp. blacks), who are way more marginalized than women. And their murders often go unsolved or unpunished because evidently no one cares if some poor black guy from the hood gets killed, because they were "probably drug dealers or gangsters" (theres the victim blaming).

Yet you don't really see the victims family and friends on the Internet yelling for people to stop making jokes about murder, or to stop making games about murder.

There is definitely a disconnect there that warrants some discussion. But it's not politically correct. For if you disagree with shunning anyone who mentions the word 'rape' you are a rape-supporter.
 
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