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Op Ed

Penny Arcade - Some Clarification.
There are people who were offended by or hurt by the joke in the strip and rather than just let it go we decided to make a second strip. That was a mistake and I apologize to this day for that strip. It was a knee jerk reaction and rather than the precision strike back at our detractors that we intended, it was a massive AOE that hurt a lot of innocent people. We should have just stopped right then but we kept going and made the merchandise. Had we left it alone, the ongoing tension about the whole thing might have subsided but Robert made the call to pull the shirts. In hindsight all this did was open the wound back up and bring on a whole new wave of debate. Any action we took at the time just dug us deeper regardless of what it was. What we needed to do was stop. just stop. I apologized for it at the time and I will still apologize for it. Everything we did after that initial comic strip was a mistake and I regret all of it.

PC & Tech Authority - Penny Arcade, Mike Krahulik, dickwolves, and fear of PAX.
But his apologies are not enough, and his actions do not exist in a vacuum. He has abetted the creation of a community that wants to be Team Rape. And I’m not being figurative, here; a Twitter account under that very name represented all those who felt their ‘free speech’ was being threatened. @teamrape exhorted others to wear their dickwolves t-shirts proudly, to actively shout down their so-called oppressors. The amount of sheer hate on display was... abhorrent. It is quite literally almost impossible for me to read through, even now.

Wired.com - Why I'm Never Going Back to Penny Arcade Expo.
In the midst of the 2011 dickwolves controversy, a vocal Penny Arcade fan who went by the Twitter handle @Teamrape wrote, “And remember, since @cwgabriel [Krahulik] will wear his dickwolves shirt, it’s okay to wear yours. We will show those that want to crush free speech.”

Mike Krahulik is not a brave upstart defending freedom of speech, even if that’s a defense Penny Arcade has hidden behind time and again. Freedom of speech is not and never has been in danger here: Krahulik has every legal right to be shitty to rape survivors and trans*people and react like a child told he can no longer break the other kids’ toys. There is no law preventing him from flaunting the fact that he has a lot more financial and social power than the people criticizing him for abusing it; nor is anyone arguing that there ought to be.

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106 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 2.
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86. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 12:24 Redmask
 
Gruntstein wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 12:08:
That's a great idea. Lets all passive-aggressively troll people with information that has no bearing on the game being played and smugly point at the negative responses and spit out the words 'told you so' between handfuls of Doritos. All because we think black people and girls need to be white knighted at every opportunity because they're too weak to fend for themselves. That isn't racist or sexist at all.

Who needs white knights? Maybe some people here are women or minorities themselves who are unhappy about it. There are many different kinds of gamers these days, it's not a world owned by single white males anymore, sorry to break it to you. Your example sucks anyway because if there wasn't a problem in the first place then those people couldn't demonstrate it so easily.
 
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85. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 12:08 Gruntstein
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 23:20:
I like games, but go into almost any multiplayer game and pretend to be a woman or a minority for a couple of hours and you will see how nasty it is.
That's a great idea. Lets all passive-aggressively troll people with information that has no bearing on the game being played and smugly point at the negative responses and spit out the words 'told you so' between handfuls of Doritos. All because we think black people and girls need to be white knighted at every opportunity because they're too weak to fend for themselves. That isn't racist or sexist at all.
 
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84. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 10:03 Redmask
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 05:28:
Penny Arcade are like a club for self referential people who need other people to pat them on the back and say it's ok you're not a geek.

Pretty much, their base does so much cheerleading they might as well pitch themselves to football teams. The atmosphere at PAX is something I won't forget any time soon but definitely do not wish to repeat.
 
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83. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 06:31 Sepharo
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 05:28:
Penny Arcade are like a club for self referential people who need other people to pat them on the back and say it's ok you're not a geek.

Or it's a web comic.
 
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82. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 05:28 Dmitri_M
 
Sepharo wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 04:15:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 02:08:
Fair enough, but I don't hate PA, I hate seeing this pointless debate pop up every few weeks....

I assumed you must hate it because you twice said it (Penny Arcade) had nothing to do with gaming when it's a gaming related comic, that's runs a gamer charity that also donates games, they've made 4 of their own video games, and run multiple gaming conventions which are each the largest in the U.S.

I mean I guess that's almost nothing to do with gaming.
Penny Arcade are like a club for self referential people who need other people to pat them on the back and say it's ok you're not a geek.

I have never paid attention to them or ever frequented their site. I prefer to spend my time playing game games not games about gamers.
 
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81. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 04:15 Sepharo
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 02:08:
Fair enough, but I don't hate PA, I hate seeing this pointless debate pop up every few weeks....

I assumed you must hate it because you twice said it (Penny Arcade) had nothing to do with gaming when it's a gaming related comic, that's runs a gamer charity that also donates games, they've made 4 of their own video games, and run multiple gaming conventions which are each the largest in the U.S.

I mean I guess that's almost nothing to do with gaming.
 
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80. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 04:01 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 7, 2013, 02:08:
Fair enough, but I don't hate PA, I hate seeing this pointless debate pop up every few weeks....

Blame Mike. He keeps bringing it up.
 
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79. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 02:08 eRe4s3r
 
Fair enough, but I don't hate PA, I hate seeing this pointless debate pop up every few weeks....  
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78. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 02:02 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Oh brother, here we go. Have you ever seen the episode of Friends where Joey tells Pheobe that nobody ever does anything that is not selfish? That's your argument. If you've ever donated to charity, it was for selfish reasons. Because it made you feel good to help someone out, or it made you look good, or whatever. I could give two flying fucks WHY they started Child's Play. What I do care about is that it helps kids in fucked up situations.

Sure but to publicly state that your purpose in being kind is to make yourself look good is kinda taking it to a new low.
 
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77. Re: Op Ed Sep 7, 2013, 01:20 Agent.X7
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 23:11:
HAHAHAHAHA, acting like adults, hahahahahaha. Good one. Have you met many adults lately? I own a retail store. My 3 year old acts more civilized than 75% of my customers. I'm sure Batman can tell you just how adults act as well. I know a few LEOs, and they love humanity in all of it's colorful "adulthood."

As a matter of fact, I met at least two on Tuesday: the CEO and COO of my employer, the former of whom wanted to meet and check in with me after I had a major anxiety attack at work and had gone on leave of absence. Prior to that meeting I was not sure I wanted to return to my job, but they were both so kind, conscientious, appreciative of my contributions to the agency and my work with our clients, genuinely concerned for my well being, and sincere in their desire that I come back, preferably in a management capacity, that I walked out of our administrative office feeling validated, appreciated, and intent on returning. These two adults have their head on their shoulders, their priorities straight, and want nothing more than to serve the vulnerable population are agency works with and to look out for the employees of the agency. So yes, I've met some adults recently, and while an experience that positive is rare, basic adult civility is not.

And even if a lot of people are classless shitbags, that hardly gives public figures permission to be even bigger classless shitbags, which seems to be the jist of your argument.

As for Krahulik's charitable donations, that's great and all but I've always felt uneasy with PA's motivations for such things. Back when Child's Play started a decade ago, they made it pretty damn clear that they were doing it just to show the world that gamers aren't a bunch of murdering psychopaths, i.e. it wasn't for the kids, it was to improve the public image of the "culture" of which they were a part: any kindness was purely incidental.

Oh brother, here we go. Have you ever seen the episode of Friends where Joey tells Pheobe that nobody ever does anything that is not selfish? That's your argument. If you've ever donated to charity, it was for selfish reasons. Because it made you feel good to help someone out, or it made you look good, or whatever. I could give two flying fucks WHY they started Child's Play. What I do care about is that it helps kids in fucked up situations.
 
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76. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 23:57 Flatline
 
Loopy wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 23:36:
Flatline wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 22:46:
When this original story broke one of the loudest women screaming teh "triggering" argument was a female developer who made hyper violent FPS war games. I will refrain from naming names for obvious reasons.

I politely pointed out that her own career was based on creating games that trigger PTSD in war veterans and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. I mean, PTSD is PTSD and triggering is triggering.

Why would a war veteran with PTSD issues play a violent, war-themed FPS game in the first place? Doesn't the possibility of aggravating that condition kind of come with the territory?

I think you "checked out of the argument mentally" before it even started, friend.

So you can avoid the multi-million dollar ad campaigns? We live in a culture that's permeated and saturated in extreme violence as a form of entertainment. You may be able to avoid some of the avenues, but it doesn't prevent you from being constantly exposed to the violence culture.

And actually, I was hoping she'd say "just don't play it" as a reply, because someone else said "just don't read PA" and she replied that just ignoring the source is terribad and makes you just as bad as PA.

Fair point about voluntary enlistment, but making the argument that rape-induced PTSD is just as legitimate as war-induced PTSD (which I'll agree it is) sounds a little hollow when your career is to make games that are super concentrated PTSD triggers, and then complain that a comic strip is a PTSD trigger.
 
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75. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 23:40 Beamer
 
Loopy wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 23:36:
Flatline wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 22:46:
When this original story broke one of the loudest women screaming teh "triggering" argument was a female developer who made hyper violent FPS war games. I will refrain from naming names for obvious reasons.

I politely pointed out that her own career was based on creating games that trigger PTSD in war veterans and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. I mean, PTSD is PTSD and triggering is triggering.

Why would a war veteran with PTSD issues play a violent, war-themed FPS game in the first place? Doesn't the possibility of aggravating that condition kind of come with the territory?

I think you "checked out of the argument mentally" before it even started, friend.

I was going to post the same thing.

Plus, though not as strong as the first point, it's been decades since someone was sent to war without some form of consent. Obviously some people have little choice due to their social/economic situation, but no one falls asleep and wakes up in the middle of a war, or accepts a ride home from a good friend and ends up in Syria with a gun in his/her hand.
 
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74. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 23:36 Loopy
 
Flatline wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 22:46:
When this original story broke one of the loudest women screaming teh "triggering" argument was a female developer who made hyper violent FPS war games. I will refrain from naming names for obvious reasons.

I politely pointed out that her own career was based on creating games that trigger PTSD in war veterans and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. I mean, PTSD is PTSD and triggering is triggering.

Why would a war veteran with PTSD issues play a violent, war-themed FPS game in the first place? Doesn't the possibility of aggravating that condition kind of come with the territory?

I think you "checked out of the argument mentally" before it even started, friend.
 
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73. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 23:20 Silicon Avatar
 
Penny Arcade attracted a neckbeard audience that soon became a superbeard and now a megabeard.

I like games, but go into almost any multiplayer game and pretend to be a woman or a minority for a couple of hours and you will see how nasty it is.

Games are supposed to be fun.

Why do gamers put up with the bungholes who make it a racist, testosterone fueled, misogynistic nightmare just to push a bunch of buttons at the right time? That era should not have happened in the first place and it's really sad that it's still around and being fueled by newbs and oldbies who never matured.

 
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72. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 23:11 Scottish Martial Arts
 
HAHAHAHAHA, acting like adults, hahahahahaha. Good one. Have you met many adults lately? I own a retail store. My 3 year old acts more civilized than 75% of my customers. I'm sure Batman can tell you just how adults act as well. I know a few LEOs, and they love humanity in all of it's colorful "adulthood."

As a matter of fact, I met at least two on Tuesday: the CEO and COO of my employer, the former of whom wanted to meet and check in with me after I had a major anxiety attack at work and had gone on leave of absence. Prior to that meeting I was not sure I wanted to return to my job, but they were both so kind, conscientious, appreciative of my contributions to the agency and my work with our clients, genuinely concerned for my well being, and sincere in their desire that I come back, preferably in a management capacity, that I walked out of our administrative office feeling validated, appreciated, and intent on returning. These two adults have their head on their shoulders, their priorities straight, and want nothing more than to serve the vulnerable population are agency works with and to look out for the employees of the agency. So yes, I've met some adults recently, and while an experience that positive is rare, basic adult civility is not.

And even if a lot of people are classless shitbags, that hardly gives public figures permission to be even bigger classless shitbags, which seems to be the jist of your argument.

As for Krahulik's charitable donations, that's great and all but I've always felt uneasy with PA's motivations for such things. Back when Child's Play started a decade ago, they made it pretty damn clear that they were doing it just to show the world that gamers aren't a bunch of murdering psychopaths, i.e. it wasn't for the kids, it was to improve the public image of the "culture" of which they were a part: any kindness was purely incidental.
 
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71. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 22:56 Sepharo
 
Penny Arcade are as much Gamers as I am the King of Odyssia.
to me Penny Arcade are not game related.

I know you're explaining this with a "well that's just like my opinion man" but you're still wrong.

Man I hate Vince Vaughn.
Vince Vaughn is as much of an actor as I am the Pope.
To me Vince Vaughn is not movie related.
 
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70. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 22:46 Flatline
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:56:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Well, I don't think anyone other than Cutter is saying PA condones it, but I'd also wager there are more people walking around out there that have the lingering memories of being raped than there are that have the lingering memories of being brutally murdered by being fed into a woodchipper.

It gets back to the "triggering" argument that you seem to be misunderstanding.

When this original story broke one of the loudest women screaming teh "triggering" argument was a female developer who made hyper violent FPS war games. I will refrain from naming names for obvious reasons.

I politely pointed out that her own career was based on creating games that trigger PTSD in war veterans and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. I mean, PTSD is PTSD and triggering is triggering.

I forgot if it was her or her fans who called me a rapist waiting to happen (ie: I'd be a rapist if I thought I could get away with it).

I checked out of the argument mentally at that point.

Rape culture shit does exist, triggered PTSD does exist, the unnecessary slut-shaming and objectification of women do exist. Look at our fucking politicians who talk about "legitimate rape", transvaginal ultrasounds to shame women and shit that's trying to be *enforced by law*. That's the vile shit. This Penny Arcade thing? Tasteless (funny though I laughed at the MMO commentary) but ultimately bullshit amplified through two echo chambers.
 
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69. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 21:05 Kosumo
 
Giving money to charity in such a public way to make amends for wrong doing is weak imho

I give money to charity yet have not done nothing wrong, do I now have some karma credit to use on be a dick to people?

(I give the money to charity to help them, not me)
 
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68. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 21:03 eRe4s3r
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 19:51:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 19:26:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 11:54:
Alright, he's now said he was sorry, so we can let the whole fucking issue go and it need never ever ever ever ever be fucking mentioned again.

Especially on a news site about games... Penny Arcade are as much Gamers as I am the King of Odyssia. Stop Mentioning Penny Arcade ^^

Oh, you get to decide that for everyone, do you? I've had people tell me I'm not a gamer because I haven't played any Madden games. Or because until recently I hadn't tried Minecraft. Or because whatever dufus reasoning they come up with.

I have no idea why you care what anyone thinks about you, or specifically what I classify as Gamers or not, but that IS your choice.... to me Penny Arcade are not game related. And that's that. You can agree or disagree, but why do you think I am talking to you when I am talking about Penny Arcade and this FUD topic?

For the record, I don't care 1 bit what games you play or didn't play. But I do care when the news posted here (even in op.ed) are just clickbait to non-topics that the sites linked in the news piece sure would want to become a shitstorm again...

And excuse me, but I don't support sites who's only concept of reporting is recreating shitstorms for their own monetary gains (Not blues, I am talking about the sites linked pushing these stories). And yes, that does include PA
 
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67. Re: Op Ed Sep 6, 2013, 20:43 mag
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 17:58:
mag wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 16:03:
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:44:
Beamer wrote on Sep 6, 2013, 14:23:
Yeah, it's the theme of the site, and it's what people are objecting to - how over the top it is.

It's funny how those people never complain when Gabe murders Tycho in a brutal fashion, or someone is fed into a wood chipper, or radioactive scorpions bite one of them in the dick, or dogs tear them to pieces or... etc

But a fictional character mentions fictional rape by a fictional dickwolf and "OMG YOU GUYS CONDONE RAPE."

/sigh.

Caveat: As I said before, I don't think this comic was offensive, I did not see a problem with it, etc. etc. I am not in favor of censoring tasteless humor, and I think there are some good arguments that can be made in this vein.

But. I think the rape/murder argument is weak. The main problem with the analogy is that rape happens way more often than murder, disproportionately affects a marginalized group, is frequently not punished, and involves a lot of victim-blaming. If 1 in 5 men were murdered by their best bros who then got away with it (and with large numbers of people defending the bro-murders), then the non-fuss over Gabe/Tycho murders might make more sense.

Who defends rapists? I mean, who actually thinks out right rape is OK other than frat-boys with expensive lawyers?


Just as an example, there was that case in Ohio earlier this year. The world was full of "Boo-hoo-hoo the poor young athletes' lives were destroyed by outing and convicting them as rapists. The girl was asking for it!" Same shit happens all the time.
 
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