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Morning Consolidation

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41 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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41. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 4, 2013, 14:06 jdreyer
 
@ViRGE

Great explanation.
 
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40. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 4, 2013, 00:32 ViRGE
 
killer_roach wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 20:50:
MindStalker3 wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 16:30:
From what I understand the "magic" is really in the graphics chip in the 360. They could do PowerPC emulation plus the real graphics chip and it might work. Will they do it? Not in a million years.

Emulating six PPC cores at 3.2 GHz each on an eight-core x86 setup likely running between 1.4 and 1.6 GHz is, quite literally, impossible. They've got the cores, they'd just need them running around 5-6 GHz to have reliable emulation performance.
To be clear it's not impossible, but the fundamentals of your point are valid. For general workloads one Jaguar core can run circles around any one of those heavily neutered PPC cores. The problem is that because Xenon was in-order, so is the code written for it. So there's going to be very limited ability to extract Instruction Level Parallelism (ILP) out of certain critical sections of code, which in turn would hold back Jaguar. If it can't split up workloads over multiple execution ports (let alone multiple cores) then you're relying almost exclusively on its ability to emulate and quickly retire individual PPC instructions, which given the clockspeeds would be a big problem.

That said, it depends entirely on the code. There will be sections of Xenon code that will completely fly on a Jaguar core. In fact the less well optimized it is for Xenon's idiosyncrasies, the better it would do on Jaguar.

And just as a point of clarification, Xenon is 3 cores with SMT, not 6 cores. It's far easier to just treat it as a 6 core device for emulation purposes, but the actual workload coming down the pipe won't be nearly as intense as a real 6 core workload, due to the interdependencies and conflicts between threads when using SMT.
 
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39. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 23:43 jdreyer
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 23:10:
PropheT wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 21:13:
The only hope they have is that their 1st party games move a lot of systems
Bottom line, you can't have a successful console with no 3rd party support.

They've done it before and can do it again. The real issue with the Wii U is its confusing marketing, name and the lack of first party titles.

Also, that ridiculous controller.
 
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38. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 23:10 Redmask
 
PropheT wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 21:13:
The only hope they have is that their 1st party games move a lot of systems
Bottom line, you can't have a successful console with no 3rd party support.

They've done it before and can do it again. The real issue with the Wii U is its confusing marketing, name and the lack of first party titles. They need a relaunch with a new name, the Wii branding isn't worth much these days and the console being sold alongside its predecessor is just a pointless source of confusion.
 
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37. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 21:13 PropheT
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 19:23:
People buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo software, third party stuff is just a bonus if it exists. Nintendos problem was not bringing the Nintendo software, not the lack of COD. Their market isn't really COD users. The Wii proved that third parties will chase weak hardware if the base is there anyway so they just need to start building it with their own titles.

CoD: Ghost is coming out on the Wii U. Their market is anyone who will buy the console; they're not trying to turn away 3rd parties, but they've been unsuccessful at courting them when EA has already sworn off of Wii U development and there's rumblings of the others dropping support next year if this Christmas doesn't go well.

3rd party developers flocked to the Wii because it sold almost 3 times as many consoles as the Wii U in the same amount of time after release. There were a lot of potential customers there that aren't for the Wii U, and 3rd party support and the console's momentum died off hard when the attach rate proved to be poor enough that developers stopped going after it and stuck with the PS3 and 360.

They can't sell their consoles just as new Mario and Zelda machines, plain and simple. With no 3rd party publisher support, the system is dead in the water. Nintendo's problem isn't that they didn't bring the software, it's that no one did...and many aren't even planning to try to. The only hope they have is that their 1st party games move a lot of systems, because without the income from the 3rd parties they can't even realistically drop the price on the console as it's already selling at a loss.

Bottom line, you can't have a successful console with no 3rd party support.
 
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36. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 20:50 killer_roach
 
MindStalker3 wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 16:30:
From what I understand the "magic" is really in the graphics chip in the 360. They could do PowerPC emulation plus the real graphics chip and it might work. Will they do it? Not in a million years.

Emulating six PPC cores at 3.2 GHz each on an eight-core x86 setup likely running between 1.4 and 1.6 GHz is, quite literally, impossible. They've got the cores, they'd just need them running around 5-6 GHz to have reliable emulation performance.

GPU wouldn't be hard at all - Microsoft uses a DirectX-like API on their consoles, and the chip in the XB1 is still, even at the lower end of projections, three times more powerful than the GPU in the 360.
 
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35. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 19:23 Redmask
 
PropheT wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 18:27:
The 3DS has 3rd party software support, and it has its market cornered. Those are two things that the Wii U will never have. The 3DS also launched without system selling software, but it had games in development for it. The Wii U doesn't have that, either, meaning that the problem isn't going away any time soon.

People buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo software, third party stuff is just a bonus if it exists. Nintendos problem was not bringing the Nintendo software, not the lack of COD. Their market isn't really COD users. The Wii proved that third parties will chase weak hardware if the base is there anyway so they just need to start building it with their own titles.
 
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34. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 18:27 PropheT
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 18:18:
The Wii U launched without system selling software, so did the 3DS and that is now kicking ass. It has nothing to do with age, that's a thinly veiled insult from a brainless twit.

The 3DS has 3rd party software support, and it has its market cornered. Those are two things that the Wii U will never have. The 3DS also launched without system selling software, but it had games in development for it. The Wii U doesn't have that, either, meaning that the problem isn't going away any time soon.
 
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33. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 18:27 jdreyer
 
coldbricksNZ wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 16:26:
Dear Sony and Microsoft,

Just put a 2nd damned HDMI out on your boxes so I can play multiplayer locally on a separate TV/monitor. Or as well as splitscreen, 2 tv's - four on each, there's a use for 8 controllers.

Seriously how hard can that be?

Yours ever hopefully that you'll actually do some basic things that better gaming.

Coldbricks

There's a device that does that already. In fact, it has a vast library of games, many of them free, and many brand new AAA games come out for it at prices lower than the consoles. It displays in superior resolution. It's much more flexible by allowing a wide varity of activities in addition to games: internet surfing, video streaming, image manipulation, video editing, email, word processing, personal finances, taxes, its users are almost unlimited. In addition, you can troubleshoot it and repair it yourself if something goes wrong. And an inexpensive one can be had for about the same price as a console.

It does NOT come bundled with a Kinect, however. So if you were really looking forward to that, you're out of luck.

What is this amazing device, you ask?

It's called a PC.
 
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32. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 18:18 Redmask
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:55:
Thing is the Wii actually sold, the WiiU isn't selling. It's going to get to a point where Mario alone isn't going to keep Nintendo afloat.

Those who grew up with the NES are adults now, most want to play adult games and will go to the platform that has those titles. The WiiU isn't it.

The Wii U launched without system selling software, so did the 3DS and that is now kicking ass. It has nothing to do with age, that's a thinly veiled insult from a brainless twit.
 
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31. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 16:38 Draugr
 
coldbricksNZ wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 16:26:
Dear Sony and Microsoft,

Just put a 2nd damned HDMI out on your boxes so I can play multiplayer locally on a separate TV/monitor. Or as well as splitscreen, 2 tv's - four on each, there's a use for 8 controllers.

Seriously how hard can that be?

Yours ever hopefully that you'll actually do some basic things that better gaming.

Coldbricks

How hard can it be to run a game on two screens that was designed to run on one screen at 30fps?

Pretty difficult, I imagine.
 
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30. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 16:30 MindStalker3
 
From what I understand the "magic" is really in the graphics chip in the 360. They could do PowerPC emulation plus the real graphics chip and it might work. Will they do it? Not in a million years.  
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29. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 16:26 coldbricksNZ
 
Dear Sony and Microsoft,

Just put a 2nd damned HDMI out on your boxes so I can play multiplayer locally on a separate TV/monitor. Or as well as splitscreen, 2 tv's - four on each, there's a use for 8 controllers.

Seriously how hard can that be?

Yours ever hopefully that you'll actually do some basic things that better gaming.

Coldbricks
 
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28. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:55 RollinThundr
 
robdot wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:19:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 14:23:
robdot wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 12:51:
Creston wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 12:20:
Dang, Nintendo got put down hard by Hines. What he says makes perfect sense, though.

So Nintendo has little to no third party support, and all its first party games are still scheduled for "next year." That was a solid piece of strategery they did.

Do you think Nintendo, or their core audience give a fuck about Bethesda? No, they don't. Did Bethesda make any wii games? Yet, somehow the wii was a success. Wow, go figure. Not sure why Nintendo or their audience should care what this guy thinks.

Because with out the big publishers like EA, Take Two, and Activision you're pretty much left with Mario and Zelda. Nintendo has always had terrible dealings with 3rd party publishers, that it's gotten to the point where they don't want to invest in making games for an underpowered, essentially last gen console, can you really blame them?

Nintendo fucked up. They thought they could ride out putting out lower end speced out consoles forever and they'd still sell because, MARIO! Then reality came and clubbed them in the head.

Your simply making the same old,tired , argument that people have been making for generations about Nintendo..which they prove to be false,over,and over, and over,people said the exact same thing about the wii. Word for word.

Thing is the Wii actually sold, the WiiU isn't selling. It's going to get to a point where Mario alone isn't going to keep Nintendo afloat.

Those who grew up with the NES are adults now, most want to play adult games and will go to the platform that has those titles. The WiiU isn't it.
 
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27. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:52 RollinThundr
 
nin wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:22:
robdot wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:19:
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 14:23:
robdot wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 12:51:
Do you think Nintendo, or their core audience give a fuck about Bethesda? No, they don't. Did Bethesda make any wii games? Yet, somehow the wii was a success. Wow, go figure. Not sure why Nintendo or their audience should care what this guy thinks.

Because with out the big publishers like EA, Take Two, and Activision you're pretty much left with Mario and Zelda. Nintendo has always had terrible dealings with 3rd party publishers, that it's gotten to the point where they don't want to invest in making games for an underpowered, essentially last gen console, can you really blame them?

Nintendo fucked up. They thought they could ride out putting out lower end speced out consoles forever and they'd still sell because, MARIO! Then reality came and clubbed them in the head.

Your simply making the same old,tired , argument that people have been making for generations about Nintendo..which they prove to be false,over,and over, and over,people said the exact same thing about the wii. Word for word.


You two are like a match for each other. I hope it goes well!


Oh how cute, someone from the BN clique made a funny.
 
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26. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:50 Creston
 
nin wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:22:
You two are like a match for each other. I hope it goes well!


Dammit nin, stop quoting them!
 
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25. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:49 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 15:40:
Beamer wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 13:01:
BC is extremely expensive. And pointless.

I'd like to hear why you think BC is pointless. Expensive? Sure. But pointless?

It's pointless to Beamer, therefore it is pointless to the world at large.

Quite a lot of people enjoy BC, but I will agree that it IS expensive, and especially in this particular transition, likely not very feasible without either just putting an entire 360 in the box, or going the terribly slow emulation route.

But pointless? Not really.
 
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24. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:40 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 13:01:
BC is extremely expensive. And pointless.

I'd like to hear why you think BC is pointless. Expensive? Sure. But pointless?
 
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23. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:38 jdreyer
 
robdot wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 12:51:
Creston wrote on Sep 3, 2013, 12:20:
Dang, Nintendo got put down hard by Hines. What he says makes perfect sense, though.

So Nintendo has little to no third party support, and all its first party games are still scheduled for "next year." That was a solid piece of strategery they did.

Do you think Nintendo, or their core audience give a fuck about Bethesda? No, they don't. Did Bethesda make any wii games? Yet, somehow the wii was a success. Wow, go figure. Not sure why Nintendo or their audience should care what this guy thinks.

The Wii peaked quickly and crashed. Wii U has been an abysmal failure. XBox 360 and PS3 have seen much more steady, if initially slower, growth.
The other side of the coin is software. The actual console hardware is a loss leader, with the money being made selling software. Wii again peaked early, then fell off sharply. Xbox and PS3 have seen steady, continuous growth. Hardcore gamers simply buy more games per year than casual gamers.
Nintendo became hypnotized by the success of the Wii and stagnated. The Wii U is dying. They *should* care if third party devs want to develop for their console, or the Wii U will be the last console Nintendo ever makes.
 
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22. Re: Morning Consolidation Sep 3, 2013, 15:23 Jivaro
 
 
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41 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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