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Sunday Metaverse

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21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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21. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 3, 2013, 18:56 jdreyer
 
When you take a shower, you want 5GPM of water coming through the pipe. IF it's 1/2 GPM, it's just going to suck. When you use it, you want it to be fast. The water company charges you a flat fee. However, they don't expect your going to turn on the hose and let it run 24 hours a day. If everyone starts turning it on and running it, then the water company starts charging by the gallon, and that sucks.
 
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20. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 20:26 eRe4s3r
 
Your contract specifically states that offering any ISP grade services without a specific business contract gets you insta canned. Unless it's an really old contract or a really really small ISP who doesn't care.  
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19. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 19:09 Burrito of Peace
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 2, 2013, 06:29:
Likely people running small scale ISP's or hosting services from their FIOS line, which I gotta admit is a kinda dickish move.

Why? While I do not have FIOS, my contract specifically states "unlimited usage". Don't offer it if you are unable or unwilling to provide it. Doesn't seem like a dickish move to me to legitimately use a service you are paying for.
 
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18. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 16:32 eRe4s3r
 
The difference is that you can only put so much technology in the nodes before you reach a physical limit. And I dunno what their calculations are, but imagine you have a 1 gbit line in a region with 50000 subscribers, and 500 use it to the max while 5000 use it 50%,and 10000 use it 25%. That congests a fiber based node easily, heck most actual country backbones are not handling more than 2000gbit/s and you expect a SINGLE node in your backyard to handle that load?

They oversell the bandwidth not by a tiny margin with 1gbit lines. The global infrastructure for that kind of speed even if it's only used by 1% of the US population does not exist.

The largest digital country in the EU (Germany) http://www.de-cix.net/about/statistics has only 2tbit/s load on the international backbone and a load max of 12tbit/s. You can saturate that with just 12000 1gbit lines that are used anywhere on the planet at full potential. Just think about that for a second.

20 people (in 1 area) using a gbit connection fully can already saturate an entire gateway node if it's underequipped.

This comment was edited on Sep 2, 2013, 16:38.
 
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17. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 15:33 Simon Says
 
Creston wrote on Sep 2, 2013, 11:36:
Simon Says wrote on Sep 2, 2013, 08:08:
Don't look only at the numbers guys, you must take into account the pipe max capacity and think for yourself.

That's not how your ISP looks at it, however. Whether you're on a 5Mbps pipe or a 300Mbps pipe, your ISP pays per the GB. (which, last I heard a few years ago, cost them right around a cent, so assume it's half a cent now.) So if you're making them pay for 77000GB (or 385 bucks in my math), you can see how they're getting a bit agitated.

I agree with your argument in principle, but sadly that's not how a corporation looks at it.

Still, if it's only a handfull of clients on millions, it hardly affects the bottom line. As for node congestion, it's their own damn fault that they oversell them and/or don't provide em with enough bandwidth for a measly 10% average usage. What if they had done this back when we were all on dialup? There would've been a ruckus, but on broadband everyone plays the sheep.
 
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16. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 15:27 jdreyer
 
Well, if you're using your personal connection to run a mini ISP, that's probably against the ToS, if not the spirit of said connection. I guess it would be up to the ISP to define the terms of that.  
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15. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 15:12 Simon Says
 
Half a cent per Gigabyte? Damn... On wireless 4g/LTE for house connections they charge around 10$/Gb here ( Canada, Bell for me, but all carriers tarifs are pretty much the same )...

So that means the profit per Gb is... well, off the charts. 2000 for 1, won't even try to convert it in percentage :|.
 
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14. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 15:06 Cutter
 
It's their own effing fault if they're advertising "unlimited". Few things irk me as much as marketing/advertising in general and doubly so when it's disingenuous or outright false. They do nothing but take advantage of people so fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

Face is all of NA should have unlimited GB access for no more than $10 a month by now. Much like oil should be, this should be nationalized for the benefit of the population.
 
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13. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 12:50 jacobvandy
 
It's definitely bullshit on the part of ISPs. "Heya folks, please buy our super keen 50-300 Mbps internet service! But if you use it for more than browsing Facebook really fast or watching the occasional cute kitten video on YouTube, WE WILL DESTROY YOU!"

They make enough money off of the vast majority of customers barely using their available bandwidth, to be able to tolerate the remaining few taking better advantage of it (in this case, it's 45 people out of 5.8 million subscribers using more than 10% of their total pipe...). But all they see is money they *could* have had if only those more active users would back it down a notch... If they truly can't afford to offer unlimited service at those speeds, then maybe they -- oh, I dunno -- shouldn't offer it?

And don't you love the irony of the so-called "business package?" As if paying a little more per month for the same usage at the same location would suddenly NOT "impair service performance for other users" in that area.

This comment was edited on Sep 2, 2013, 13:00.
 
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12. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 11:36 Creston
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 2, 2013, 06:29:
It says nowhere in that article that it was download only... in fact it says USAGE meaning both up/down. Likely people running small scale ISP's or hosting services from their FIOS line, which I gotta admit is a kinda dickish move.

You're right, my bad.
 
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11. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 11:36 Creston
 
Simon Says wrote on Sep 2, 2013, 08:08:
Don't look only at the numbers guys, you must take into account the pipe max capacity and think for yourself.

That's not how your ISP looks at it, however. Whether you're on a 5Mbps pipe or a 300Mbps pipe, your ISP pays per the GB. (which, last I heard a few years ago, cost them right around a cent, so assume it's half a cent now.) So if you're making them pay for 77000GB (or 385 bucks in my math), you can see how they're getting a bit agitated.

I agree with your argument in principle, but sadly that's not how a corporation looks at it.
 
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10. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 08:08 Simon Says
 
All you need to hit 10TB a month is simply to have an average transfer rate of :

10TB*1024*1024*1024= 10737418240KB

10737418240/30/24/60/60 = 4142,5 Kilobytes per second, or a usage of around divided by 1024 then multiplied by 8 = 32,36 megabit/s

Verizon rolled out 300Mb/S connections this summer, thats an average usage over time of only around 10% of the max capacity of the pipe running 24/7 at full load.

Hardly "unfair usage" if you're only using your service at 10% of max capacity.

77TB on the other hand... On a google fiber connection or that brand new jap 2Gb connection, it would be fair usage, but on a 300Mb/S pipe, well that's around 80% usage. Around 23% usage on 1Gb, and a very reasonable 12% on a 2Gb. AND that's only taking into account pure download. If we take into account upload, the percentages drop even more.

And even then... back when I was on dialup I used to run my connection almost 24/7 at full load all month long for months, did they ever whine about it? Nope.

Don't look only at the numbers guys, you must take into account the pipe max capacity and think for yourself.

This comment was edited on Sep 2, 2013, 08:15.
 
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9. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 2, 2013, 06:29 eRe4s3r
 
Creston wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 23:50:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 15:39:
10 TB per month? Jeez, what are these guys downloading? The entire Times-Warner catalog in hi def? You'd have to be spending $400 per month or hard drives just to store all that data.

The highest number was 77TB in one month. I'm completely against this bullshit "Well, we say unlimited but we really don't mind unlimited" crap that's going on, but 77TB is just fucking retarded. My entire company of 1200 people doesn't download 77TB a month, and we're on a 300Mbps pipe. (funny enough, we upload around 300TB a month, but that's because of the backups.)

It says nowhere in that article that it was download only... in fact it says USAGE meaning both up/down. Likely people running small scale ISP's or hosting services from their FIOS line, which I gotta admit is a kinda dickish move.
 
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8. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 23:50 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 15:39:
10 TB per month? Jeez, what are these guys downloading? The entire Times-Warner catalog in hi def? You'd have to be spending $400 per month or hard drives just to store all that data.

The highest number was 77TB in one month. I'm completely against this bullshit "Well, we say unlimited but we really don't mind unlimited" crap that's going on, but 77TB is just fucking retarded. My entire company of 1200 people doesn't download 77TB a month, and we're on a 300Mbps pipe. (funny enough, we upload around 300TB a month, but that's because of the backups.)
 
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7. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 23:07 Burrito of Peace
 
Nope, System Center tells no lies. Also, I never said my data transfer was for singular home user.

It's ~50TB for August. I have a 200TB private cloud that I run out of the house (but on a fiber connection) and the users that have access are digital packrats. Most people will be once they're free of the limitations of local, on-system disk access. My heaviest user generally shuffles about 12TB/month and my lightest user does about 2TB/month. Hell, most people won't even de-dupe their own data because they want backups of backups of backups of files...even if what they're uploading to has a multipath backup solution in place. That 4GB 1080p video file you shot of you fucking your girlfriend? That becomes 20GB, by itself, once you copy all the directories you forgot you hid copies in.

Also, 50TB/month is really not that hard of a number to hit if you're doing full and incremental replication over to colocated backups, have multiple users acquiring digital media and also running several server VM instances of popular games and applications. We're basically getting to the point that it is financially sensible to return to the old server/thin client model with real-time sharing even for a group of "home" users who are willing to share the cost equally.

The whole user to ISP, single point of connection, model is so incredibly dated and frought with problems that users, especially in the US, have been conditioned to just accept. There are certainly better ways to access and use data streams and those FIOS users have probably figured that out and started implementing it.

There's a reason cable providers are shitting their pants about the rollout of fiber to the home. It's changing the very fabric of data transmission the world over.
 
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6. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 21:53 Warskull
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 21:15:
You guys must exist in a very data sparse environment. My monthly traffic is ~50TB a month.

That's ~50,000 GB, I somehow doubt you are moving that much data in one month. 10GB a movie is probably a generous estimate for bluray quality rips. At that rate you would have to download 500 movies in a month. That would be 16.6 movies per day. Netflix puts their highest quality HD in at 2.8GB/hr. That would be 17,857 hours of netflix or 744 days of straight netflix. You would need 24 copies of netflix running 24/7 for a month to pull that off.

Are you sure you aren't mistaking TB for GB? Remember 1 TB = 1,024 GB.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 2013, 21:59.
 
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5. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 21:40 xXBatmanXx
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 21:15:
You guys must exist in a very data sparse environment. My monthly traffic is ~50TB a month.

For a large business or dorm maybe - if that is for your home I call bullshit.
 
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4. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 21:15 Burrito of Peace
 
You guys must exist in a very data sparse environment. My monthly traffic is ~50TB a month.  
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3. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 17:48 Prez
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 1, 2013, 15:39:
10 TB per month? Jeez, what are these guys downloading? The entire Times-Warner catalog in hi def? You'd have to be spending $400 per month or hard drives just to store all that data.

Seriously - that's just insane. Do these people leave their wifi unsecured so everyone around them can download all the movies and music they want too? I'm against bandwidth caps but 10TB is ridiculous.
 
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2. Re: Sunday Metaverse Sep 1, 2013, 17:39 Julio
 
10 TB per month is an awful lot of porn.  
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21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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