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Morning Safety Dance

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18 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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18. Re: Morning Safety Dance Aug 29, 2013, 21:29 Mr. Tact
 
Well, the UK certainly seems to have at least pressed the pause button.

After thinking about it some more, there may not be a good choice here, but there is definitely a very poor choice. And that would be the US launching a military strike without significant support from our allies and preferably the UN and/or several (many?) members of the Arab League.

Going this alone, is asking for the worst.
 
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17. Re: Morning Safety Dance Aug 29, 2013, 08:54 eRe4s3r
 
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

I am convinced that nothing we do in that region is ever gonna fix anything. And the way Peace-Medal Obama and Prime-Poodle of the UK are acting right now, they don't seem to be understanding that ignoring Russia is gonna cost them dearly.
 
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16. Re: Morning Safety Dance Aug 29, 2013, 07:15 Mr. Tact
 
Your link isn't news to me and doesn't change anything I've said. My point and stance is there are no good choices.

I know it's difficult, but consider this: assume you became convinced Assad is using chemical weapons. And death tolls start to rise -- 1,000 dead in an attack. Two weeks later another 1,500. Then, 1,500 two weeks after that. At what point does it become necessary to act against him?

You're right. The "rebels" aren't anyone we care to deal with, let alone run Syria. The problem is Assad is approaching, if he isn't already there, the point where we can't deal with him either...
 
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15. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 15:51 eRe4s3r
 
You have a good point, but where to draw the line is not a thing for us to decide. Apparently the governments with too much money think shooting some tomahawks at buildings in Syria is gonna do something. What it will do with high chance is prolong the war. In worst case it will turn the entire region into a collection of failed states and the biggest breeding ground for terrorism on the planet. Especially a problem since the government in Egypt is weak, the gov in Iraq is weak, the gov in Afghanistan is weak. All these nations gov's could fall should this conflict spread or Syria become substantially destabilized.

If you ask me what I think is best then I have no answer to that. I just know that long range bombardment isn't gonna do anything.

As for where the line is drawn... it is already crossed and threw up on. By the "rebels" .. Why we are helping them?

You should read this


The most capable units on the rebel side — those spearheading the fight against the secular government — are composed of Islamist militants, many of whom fought U.S. forces in Iraq

This comment was edited on Aug 28, 2013, 16:01.
 
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14. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 13:53 Mr. Tact
 
Lives are already being lost that have nothing to do with it. Civilians are dying. While "let them fix their own problems" might seem wise here at the moment, it's not always the right answer -- think WWII.

Granted, we are nowhere near those levels, I'm just saying there is a big gray area, not a clearly defined line. If you think there is, tell me where it's at. How many civilians, minorities, whatever have to die before it's an issue for governments outside Syria? The surrounding countries are already burdened by the refugee populations.

I don't want us to go in. At some point, we may have no effective choice. I don't know if we have or when we will have reached that point.
 
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13. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 13:13 eRe4s3r
 
I would favor "not getting involved at all" because when foreign army forces get involved, it will create fallout that will lead to more terrorism globally. And bombing his supply lines isn't gonna do anything to begin with. Especially given that the proof these politicians talk about is probably about as substantiated as the proof they showed us to get into the Iraq war. Which turned out to be a full on lie.

To me, this situation right now seems nearly absurd. Why are we talking about bombing Syria? Let them fix their own problems and let's not get involved. Because unlike you I care about all lives, and when the western nations get involved, lives will be lost that have nothing to do with this. And that is as morally wrong as using chemical weapons.
 
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12. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 12:02 Mr. Tact
 
First, I said if/when. Second, just because he isn't backed into a corner doesn't mean he doesn't feel like he is.

As far as I can tell, from the US point of view, it's a no win situation. No matter how much or how little we get involved in the conflict, we will be criticized by someone. Given that, my stance would be whatever we do, let's not lose any US military lives doing it.
 
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11. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 11:47 eRe4s3r
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 28, 2013, 07:38:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 17:27:
One can ask the same thing about nuclear arsenals....

Do you really believe a dictator that remained in power this long doesn't know how far he can go and how far not? Occams Razor.....
Yes, well "we" (the US) have used our nukes. But that is neither here nor there.

How long did the Ba'athists and Sadaam run Iraq? Since the early 1960s? Sadaam used them. I believe a dictator who has been in power that long has difficulty understanding when he's lost. The concept is not easily understood by him. Would he rather the people loved him? Sure. But he'd rather rule with the Iron Fist and fear than not rule.

I don't think Assad would use chemical weapons casually -- "Oh screw it, just gas them." But if/when he was feeling backed into a corner... he'd do it.

Fair enough... now you only need to convince me why I should care about that ,p To me it matters not what Assad does or doesn't do, what matters however is that Syria doesn't become the next Iraq, which it'll turn into should these so called "rebels" win.

Also backed into a corner? That's not what the NATO says
70 percent support Assad

The Anglo-American press reports on an internal NATO study (dated June 2013), which takes stock of Syrian public opinion. The study shows that 70% of Syrians support President Bashar al-Assad, 20% adopt a neutral position and 10% support the “rebels.”

These rebels are not rebels, they are terrorists.
 
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10. removed Aug 28, 2013, 08:08 aler
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Aug 28, 2013, 08:18.
 
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9. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 28, 2013, 07:38 Mr. Tact
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 17:27:
One can ask the same thing about nuclear arsenals....

Do you really believe a dictator that remained in power this long doesn't know how far he can go and how far not? Occams Razor.....
Yes, well "we" (the US) have used our nukes. But that is neither here nor there.

How long did the Ba'athists and Sadaam run Iraq? Since the early 1960s? Sadaam used them. I believe a dictator who has been in power that long has difficulty understanding when he's lost. The concept is not easily understood by him. Would he rather the people loved him? Sure. But he'd rather rule with the Iron Fist and fear than not rule.

I don't think Assad would use chemical weapons casually -- "Oh screw it, just gas them." But if/when he was feeling backed into a corner... he'd do it.
 
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8. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 27, 2013, 17:27 eRe4s3r
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 15:36:
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 15:08:
And yeah, the whole Syria thing is a huge wtf. I don't buy for 1 second that Assad used chem weapons. What would he gain from that and what would others gains from that? Seems to me the only ones profiting are the "rebels" and the military industrial complex. And Assad is highly educated, he would NEVER allow chem weapon use.
Sarcasm?

I have no doubt Assad would do it. What would he gain? The same thing anyone gains using those weapons, generating fear in his enemies. Now, did he do it? I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise or shock me. Did you think he was collecting chemical weapons in order to not use them?

One can ask the same thing about nuclear arsenals....

Do you really believe a dictator that remained in power this long doesn't know how far he can go and how far not? Occams Razor.....
 
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7. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 27, 2013, 15:36 Mr. Tact
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 15:08:
And yeah, the whole Syria thing is a huge wtf. I don't buy for 1 second that Assad used chem weapons. What would he gain from that and what would others gains from that? Seems to me the only ones profiting are the "rebels" and the military industrial complex. And Assad is highly educated, he would NEVER allow chem weapon use.
Sarcasm?

I have no doubt Assad would do it. What would he gain? The same thing anyone gains using those weapons, generating fear in his enemies. Now, did he do it? I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise or shock me. Did you think he was collecting chemical weapons in order to not use them?
 
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6. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 27, 2013, 15:08 eRe4s3r
 
Falaffel wrote on Aug 27, 2013, 07:30:
Yes, very (not) funny indeed. This sick control structure will go to any lengths to fend off attacks on itself. I trust very few things on first sight nowadays. E.g. whats really happening in Syria lately.

I feel the same, either knowledge and awareness increased or the amount of stories with spin in mainstream media increased.... or maybe both is true.... and the Independent story seems like the UK gov now leaks it's own secrets to damage the persona Snowden and his credibility, or rather, that of his leaks (and the credibility of those leaking it). With the prime poodle saying he ordered the destruction of the data @ Guardian i believe anything. These people are protecting their power, they have absolutely 0 interest in democracy or freedoms. At least, that of their citizens.

And yeah, the whole Syria thing is a huge wtf. I don't buy for 1 second that Assad used chem weapons. What would he gain from that and what would others gains from that? Seems to me the only ones profiting are the "rebels" and the military industrial complex. And Assad is highly educated, he would NEVER allow chem weapon use.

This is how conspiracy theorists are born right? We see the truth because we don't believe the spin doctors anymore.. but nobody else sees it. 99% of people reading that Independent article will not even realize that this is spin and most likely a false flag operation to boot. Since the data is not from Snowden NOR from his data.
 
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5. Re: Morning Safety Dance Aug 27, 2013, 08:05 Mr. Tact
 
What's happening in Syria is people are dying in a civil war. And soon more people will be dying as other nations feel they need to get involved due to the obscene turn the war has taken. It is a total no win situation most everyone involved.  
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4. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 27, 2013, 07:30 Falaffel
 
Yes, very (not) funny indeed. This sick control structure will go to any lengths to fend off attacks on itself. I trust very few things on first sight nowadays. E.g. whats really happening in Syria lately.  
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3. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 26, 2013, 15:47 Mr. Tact
 
Armengar wrote on Aug 26, 2013, 14:03:
I use my own mail server. If my emails are scanned they arent from my end.
1. Are you sure about that?
2. Even if you are right, so? You think that gives you some protection?
 
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2. Re: UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 26, 2013, 14:03 Armengar
 
I use my own mail server. If my emails are scanned they arent from my end.  
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
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1. UK’s secret Mid-East internet surveillance base is revealed in Edward Snowden leaks. Aug 26, 2013, 11:16 eRe4s3r
 
Funny how Snowden specifically said never to have given anything to the Independent.....

 
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