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The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions

The Elder Scrolls Online tweets about a an interview with Matt Firor saying The Elder Scrolls Online will be using the subscription model that's almost completely out of style for current MMORPGs. Here's word:

Choosing the right business model is part of that. We are going with the subscription model for ESO.

We're building a game with the freedom to play - alone or with your friends - as much as you want. A game with meaningful and consistent content - one packed with hundreds of hours of gameplay that can be experienced right away and one that will be supported with premium customer support. Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make.

The Elder Scrolls Online offers unlimited play for the first 30 days with the purchase of the game. The choice is yours to play as much as you want; hundreds of hours of content, PvP, etc - is all there for you to experience with the base purchase of the game. If you want to continue playing for hundreds of hours more after that first month you'll pay a flat fee for continued, unlimited access to the game.

We'll talk about further discounts, etc. later, but for now, we are very happy to finally announce our model. It's very simple - you pay once per month after the first 30 days and the entire game is available to you.

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64. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 26, 2013, 04:37 Armengar
 
Fletch wrote on Aug 22, 2013, 04:30:
Illumin wrote on Aug 22, 2013, 02:34:
Ill know after 30 days...

And $60.

in fairness the same could be said for GW2. It would be the continuation that costs.

Perhaps a FTP for x levels then a purchase or sub.
 
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63. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 17:26 NKD
 
OpticNerve wrote on Aug 22, 2013, 03:44:

And after seeing some Everquest Next videos? Yeeeah, good luck ESO.

Yeah for better or worse EQN is trying something new. That's what we need more of. If EQN flops, it'll still be an innovator that inspired some other studios to get outside their comfort zone and try something new. (Most likely Blizzard will lift many of their ideas for Titan). If ESO flops, it'll be just another WoW clone down the drain like so many before it, having inspired no one.

It's no coincidence that Blizzard decided to rework their new MMO recently, just like when SOE reworked EQ3 into EQNext. People are starting to catch on that you can't just keep making the same fucking game with a new coat of paint.

I wonder if we're not seeing the beginning of another cycle. SOE makes EQ Next, Blizzard comes along a couple years later and puts their own spin on the idea, and then shitty clones en masse follow that for several years.

 
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62. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 04:59 InBlack
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 11:03:
I can't help feeling that this game is heading for disaster. They have a strong IP, but how many people will be repelled when they realise it's not actually Elder Scrolls 6 but a fairly typical MMO? They've been avoiding showing the MMO-like stuff in videos so far, instead pretending it plays just like an Elder Scrolls game, and I think a lot of people will be surprised.

Then to use the outdated model of subscriptions, knowing how many other games have switched for F2P to survive, AND then adding the extra complexity of developing for multiple platforms ... They've got their work cut out for them.

This. Not only that, but how many people actually realise (or even care) that its not MADE by Bethesda inhouse, but is merely published by them. Its a pure cash grab, after the success of Skyrim they feel that their IP has enough clout to warrant an MMO. I dont understand why they cant see its a terrible step to take, especially after the Bioware/EA SWOTOR fiasco.
 
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61. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 04:44 Quinn
 
There's allot of unnecessary elaboration on the idea of a subscription, in that yellow quote.

I'm thrilled about the news. I'm done with Free-To-Play MMORPGs. I know many think differently but I hated Guild Wars 2 and Neverwinter didn't have the element that made me jump back in.

Finally -- finally indeed! -- a dev kept his head out of his ass so there's another chance for a success of WoW-like proportions.
 
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60. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 04:30 Fletch
 
Illumin wrote on Aug 22, 2013, 02:34:
Ill know after 30 days...

And $60.

 
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59. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 04:29 Longswd
 
JeffD wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 15:38:
Lonswd, you argument is so full of holes, in no way, in no world does subscription = game worth playing.

Firstly, no "argument" is being presented.

Secondly, this nonexistent argument is full of holes because you completely misunderstood the sentiment. I'm not saying a sub or lack thereof makes a game good or bad. I am saying that a sub is not a deterrent to my playing a game if it's good. Conversely, I'm not going to play a bad game just because it's free.

Way to totally miss the point.
 
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58. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 03:44 OpticNerve
 
I think ESO is going to have an uphill battle and might go the way of SWtOR. *If* it was essentially Skyrim but with hundreds of other players, I could see the game doing very well with a subscription system, but with that one leaked gameplay video... I really doubt the subscription plan will last for long.

It just looked so damned ugly, boring and average. If it didn't have some of the lore elements of the Elder Scrolls as well as some of the more iconic armor, I wouldn't have known it was an Elder Scrolls game at all. Even the visual style seemed different from the traditional semi-realistic Elder Scrolls style. It just looked so cartoony. Like SWtOR.

And after seeing some Everquest Next videos? Yeeeah, good luck ESO.
 
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57. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 02:34 Illumin
 
Subs are fine with me if the games worth it. Ill know after 30 days anyways. At the very least it will weed out a bunch of annoying kids since some parents wont pay a monthly fee I hope....  
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56. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 02:28 entr0py
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 22, 2013, 00:50:
WoW could use subs because there was little competition at the time and it could build a large core playerbase. It's much harder to do that nowadays when there are MMOs all over the place, and many of them are free to play.

It's silly to suggest GW2 didn't have subs because they knew it was a substandard product. To believe that you have to ignore the obvious trend towards F2P, and failure of high profile subs games like SWTOR. And you have to ignore the millions of subs that WoW has lost over the last couple of years.

Guld Wars 2 was in no way F2P, it was $50-$60 upfront. In that sense it followed the Guild Wars model. . . which far outdates the F2P trend.

Still, I think TESO might be good enough that they can extract large payments from eager players for the first year, then transition to a F2P model when interest starts to wane.
 
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55. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 01:00 JeffD
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 18:41:

Correct. And if you play WoW versus GW2 then surely you understand why WoW is a much more robust experience. The combat, the class diversity, the content, ***THE PVP*** is all vastly superior to GW2.

Your opinion. A lot of us playing GW2 beg to differ. I have 8 years of EQ under my belt and 7 years of WoW. I grew tired of WoWs gameplay and lack of difficulty in all but heroic raiding. Leveling is such an absolute bore fest and if you aren't raiding, you have to grind dailys. GW2's more dynamic leveling structure and consistent difficulty while offering a more fast paced and reactive gameplay are a breath of fresh air.

WoW Thrives if you want to call it that, but it is only getting smaller. It will have to bleed a lot for it to actually consider changing its pay structure, mean while people like me are leaving in droves and would only consider a non subscription based MMO in the future.

Everquest and WoW were able to demand subscriptions because when they both came out, there was nothing like them. 6 years after WoWs release it has seen the release of many other big ticket MMOs with subscriptions that have failed, but no one could honestly say that any one of them were really up to it. They pretty much all copied WoW, very little innovated on new stuff, and most of them lacked end game content out the door. GW2 changed all this by offering a true MMO experience on a non subscription base showing that it can be done, and striving to offer up a different game then WoW.

In the end how ever, I left WoW because I was tired of the end game (heroic 25 man to the end), had to spend so many hours on a tight scheduled (not easy to do when you actually have a job and a life), and was tired of spending 174$ a year on it. GW2 gives me the same experience.. I don't need to invest tons of time, and I can leave and come back to it when ever I want. They are constantly adding new stuff to it. It is a win situation all around.

So why would I go back to subscription based again?
 
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54. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 22, 2013, 00:50 Squirmer
 
WoW could use subs because there was little competition at the time and it could build a large core playerbase. It's much harder to do that nowadays when there are MMOs all over the place, and many of them are free to play.

It's silly to suggest GW2 didn't have subs because they knew it was a substandard product. To believe that you have to ignore the obvious trend towards F2P, and failure of high profile subs games like SWTOR. And you have to ignore the millions of subs that WoW has lost over the last couple of years.
 
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53. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 19:57 Agent.X7
 
JohnBirshire wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 18:07:
GW2 this, GW2 that. I hate to say this, but the game would fail as a subscription MMO because it isn't worth subscribing to. That is why they have an alternative revenue plan. They don't want EoS to make GW2 money, they want to make it worth subscribing to, and therefore make a lot more money. If that fails, THEN they can go FTP as a backup plan, there is no reason to START as a FTP game.

Well, it's your opinion, but I disagree. Go back a few years and it would have thrived, since they pump out content about 100x faster than WoW ever did.
 
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52. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 19:06 NewMaxx
 
Subscription models work well for niche games, actually, like EVE. WoW is pretty much the only real exception to the rule. Of course it has more content than GW2...it's been out forever! I've gone through all that in a previous thread. GW2 and WoW, and for that matter likely ESO, are in two different classes. Anybody who argues otherwise misses the point. GW2 was made to be sub-free.

The GW2 model, for consoles, simply makes more sense, though. Don't care what justification you come up for a counter-argument, it falls flat since it's not considering either A) a niche game (honestly FFXIV on consoles fell and falls into that net) or B) a game on PC only (easier to develop for). Yes, if ESO was PC-only, I'd agree with a sub, which is why I suggest they use a hybrid sub model for the PC within the multi-platform framework.

It would make for a better game and PC players would pay it. If you honestly think that model will work for consoles, then you're very much out of touch with the average player. Guess what they'll consider a "failure" if it doesn't deliver? Console subs. PC players will get screwed over for that as the game will "end up F2P." Hence why I again say that approaching the platforms with different pricing schemes is the logical choice.

Let me put it another way...imagine GW2 comes out on consoles. The game design and style fits a gamepad pretty well, actually (I'm sure ESO does, too). With their payment structure you can bet they'll get their sales, their microtransactions fit into existing systems, and really the only overhaul necessary is contiguous updates. It fits console players perfectly. Then ESO comes out and tries to be WoW in that same space...good luck. They'll never be able to keep up with content across 3 platforms needing individual testing and updates at a subscription quality.

Oh wait, what if they give a WoW experience like that on the PC and stagger the console updates...but PC players pay subs...oh no, no! Not logic! What kind of person pays a sub to get the game on a PC that provides a more up-to-date and nicer experience when they can pay upfront + micro to enjoy a more stable experience on a console gamepad...oh wait...that would make sense.
 
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51. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 18:41 Fibrocyte
 
JohnBirshire wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 18:07:
GW2 this, GW2 that. I hate to say this, but the game would fail as a subscription MMO because it isn't worth subscribing to. That is why they have an alternative revenue plan. They don't want EoS to make GW2 money, they want to make it worth subscribing to, and therefore make a lot more money. If that fails, THEN they can go FTP as a backup plan, there is no reason to START as a FTP game.

Correct. And if you play WoW versus GW2 then surely you understand why WoW is a much more robust experience. The combat, the class diversity, the content, ***THE PVP*** is all vastly superior to GW2. I played GW2 and I enjoyed it but as JB just said it would not have survived as a subscription game and they knew that. Yet WoW still thrives to this day. Also, for the record, I haven't played WoW in years but I'm not so obtuse as to not appreciate what they've created.

I believe that ESO has the potential to be a WoW rival. I would really like it to be successful because I enjoy having a fun MMO to play.
 
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50. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 18:07 JohnBirshire
 
GW2 this, GW2 that. I hate to say this, but the game would fail as a subscription MMO because it isn't worth subscribing to. That is why they have an alternative revenue plan. They don't want EoS to make GW2 money, they want to make it worth subscribing to, and therefore make a lot more money. If that fails, THEN they can go FTP as a backup plan, there is no reason to START as a FTP game.  
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49. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 17:32 JeffD
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 16:21:
We'll see. You think WoW is somehow a "real" mmo but GW2 isn't just because...why exactly?

I'm interested in this too. Aside from the many many years of content releases... how does GW2 not equal more of an MMORPG then any other MMORPG including WoW? Heck GW1 and pretty much GW2 are the best at pvp in the mmorpg genre. WoW is a joke in this department.
 
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48. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 17:00 NewMaxx
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 16:21:
Let's not forget, on consoles you are paying internet access, PS+ or XBox Live for multiplayer, and then ESO sub fees. Yeah, that'll go over well.

Exactly dude. What I've been saying. They can get away with that pricing model on PC's maybe (although I think a hybrid model at $10/month is more realistic), but it's not going to work on consoles. People are too trendy with their games in that format and the dual ecosystems bring a different dynamic. Makes much more sense to ditch subs for consoles and go a different route, which is why I suggested different payment methods for consoles. GW2 model for consoles, cheaper sub/future WoW model for PC. Like I said, though, publishers seem reluctant to try anything new when it comes to pricing...seems they'd rather fail.
 
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47. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 16:28 RaZ0r!
 
They have the IP and experience to ask for a monthly fee. Will just have to wait and see if the game is really good.

Also F2P doesn't really mean crap anymore at all. Planetside 2 and Neverwinter are both good examples of high quality F2P games in my opinion.
 
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46. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 16:21 Agent.X7
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 15:42:
JeffD wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 14:57:
Guild wars 2 is living proof you can build a cutting edge MMORPG with no sub, ingame store, and NO P2W model! There is nothing, zilch in the store that gives a competitive edge. Lots of cosmetics, xp boosters, and pets. You can convert money to gold, but you would have to be pretty bad to not beable to afford the baseline excotics at level 80.

In GW2 it isn't expensive to purchase (or use dungeon currencies or karma obtained from events) max armour and swords, it is merely a preference because they all have their own skins. Infact as of now, it is even easier. All currencies are now account wide. This allows you to run dungeons and events on a main character and then purchase armor on an another. Imagine if WoW's dungeon and raid tokens were account bound and could be used on alts.

Meanwhile every 2 weeks, new themes content is added to the game.

Yes, but GW2 isn't nearly as good as a real MMO that's well done such as WoW. ESO could possibly be on WoW's level which means it'll warrant the sub fee.

Oh and those speculating on this going F2P are just idiots.

Yup, just idiots. We'll see. You think WoW is somehow a "real" mmo but GW2 isn't just because...why exactly?


Let's not forget, on consoles you are paying internet access, PS+ or XBox Live for multiplayer, and then ESO sub fees. Yeah, that'll go over well.
 
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45. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online to Use Subscriptions Aug 21, 2013, 15:42 Fibrocyte
 
JeffD wrote on Aug 21, 2013, 14:57:
Guild wars 2 is living proof you can build a cutting edge MMORPG with no sub, ingame store, and NO P2W model! There is nothing, zilch in the store that gives a competitive edge. Lots of cosmetics, xp boosters, and pets. You can convert money to gold, but you would have to be pretty bad to not beable to afford the baseline excotics at level 80.

In GW2 it isn't expensive to purchase (or use dungeon currencies or karma obtained from events) max armour and swords, it is merely a preference because they all have their own skins. Infact as of now, it is even easier. All currencies are now account wide. This allows you to run dungeons and events on a main character and then purchase armor on an another. Imagine if WoW's dungeon and raid tokens were account bound and could be used on alts.

Meanwhile every 2 weeks, new themes content is added to the game.

Yes, but GW2 isn't nearly as good as a real MMO that's well done such as WoW. ESO could possibly be on WoW's level which means it'll warrant the sub fee.

Oh and those speculating on this going F2P are just idiots.
 
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