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Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year?

Blend Games has a follow-up to word that Germany's Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband (VZBV) was pursuing legal action against Valve over how Steam's policies conflict with a recent EU legal ruling requiring digitally sold games include an ability to be resold by consumers. At the time this legal action was first proposed Valve said they had not seen an actual complaint in this case, but according to VZBV spokesperson Eva Hoffschulte, this is moving forward, and they hope this lands in court by the end of this year: "Unfortunately a date of the trial is not fixed, we hope it will take place this year. Until then, it is not realistic that Valve will change their policy. But our chance to win the process is very good and that will be really an improvement for consumers: then they can sell their games to others."

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42. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 14:24 Beamer
 
Armengar wrote on Jul 22, 2013, 10:46:
they dont need a marketplace at all, just allow people to "gift" or transfer a game from their list to another steam account. they dont need to provide a method for people to search for secondhand games.


That just means some 3rd party, likely GameStop, comes up with a way to list and facilitate these easily and they're the ones taking a large cut.
 
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41. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 13:23 Krovven
 
Armengar wrote on Jul 22, 2013, 10:46:
they dont need a marketplace at all, just allow people to "gift" or transfer a game from their list to another steam account. they dont need to provide a method for people to search for secondhand games.


Because you can guarantee that Valve and all the Publishers and Developers would be getting their cut from resales across the platform. That is the only way this will happen, if it happens at all. And I don't have a problem with that. They aren't going to allow straight trading between users. If companies were cool with that, DRM wouldn't exist.
 
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40. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 10:46 Armengar
 
they dont need a marketplace at all, just allow people to "gift" or transfer a game from their list to another steam account. they dont need to provide a method for people to search for secondhand games.

 
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39. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 09:23 Ceribaen
 
Golwar wrote on Jul 22, 2013, 08:13:
Justin wrote on Jul 22, 2013, 05:16:
So steam can agree to the law, but do they have to facilitate it? I like steam and I would not like to see the service damaged in any way. Whos going to buy anything from the steam main page, everyone will go straight to the second hand section.

I doubt that Steam would be forced to arrange resales on their own store. They'd just have to provide the technical options to transfer content from one account to another.

So if those people would have to rely on other channels to find interested counterparts, this would imho naturally limit the volume of business.

My assumption would be that they'd just use the community market interface if they ever did used games. Same as the cards and tradeables otherwise.

 
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38. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 08:13 Golwar
 
Justin wrote on Jul 22, 2013, 05:16:
So steam can agree to the law, but do they have to facilitate it? I like steam and I would not like to see the service damaged in any way. Whos going to buy anything from the steam main page, everyone will go straight to the second hand section.

I doubt that Steam would be forced to arrange resales on their own store. They'd just have to provide the technical options to transfer content from one account to another.

So if those people would have to rely on other channels to find interested counterparts, this would imho naturally limit the volume of business.
 
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37. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 08:06 Golwar
 
NKD wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 20:31:
s1mon75 wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 20:00:
This is why the US and Australia suck balls and why Europe is fucking awesome. Europe supports its citizens interests while the Australian and US governments are all for protecting big business, at the expense of its citizens.

If only it were that simple. Europe protects big business as long as it's European big business.

Said the guy who previously had the idea that publishers would simply abandon Steam to be not affected by the result of this case.
Do you have an agenda to produce the dumbest comments for this topic?

This case will base on a previous case about software licenses and selling those. This impacted ALL software companies. Including Europeans.
 
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36. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 05:16 Justin
 
So steam can agree to the law, but do they have to facilitate it? I like steam and I would not like to see the service damaged in any way. Whos going to buy anything from the steam main page, everyone will go straight to the second hand section.  
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35. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 22, 2013, 05:15 InBlack
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 22:35:
entr0py wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 22:32:
While this won't effect their legal requirements anywhere else in the world, I hope once Valve is forced to build this system they'll find it helps their business and end up willingly rolling it out in other regions.

Shareholders love the idea of eliminating the second hand market for games. But what they don't appreciate is that customers are more likely to buy new $60 games if they retain some of their value. Home consoles were not killed off by the ability of customers to gift, sell, or rent games. Quite the opposite, since PC software gained an exemption from the first sale doctrine, consoles have gained a larger market share. Sometimes not screwing the customer as hard as possible is actually the way to go.


Yea, prices will just go up and we will see more DLC - day 0 and day 1 DLC at that. Or making the MP DLC, etc.

And then we can choose not to buy their hyperinflated, overrated bullshit game with its milk-me-till-Im-dry DLC philosophy. Its a see-saw. Simple.
 
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34. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 22:35 xXBatmanXx
 
entr0py wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 22:32:
While this won't effect their legal requirements anywhere else in the world, I hope once Valve is forced to build this system they'll find it helps their business and end up willingly rolling it out in other regions.

Shareholders love the idea of eliminating the second hand market for games. But what they don't appreciate is that customers are more likely to buy new $60 games if they retain some of their value. Home consoles were not killed off by the ability of customers to gift, sell, or rent games. Quite the opposite, since PC software gained an exemption from the first sale doctrine, consoles have gained a larger market share. Sometimes not screwing the customer as hard as possible is actually the way to go.


Yea, prices will just go up and we will see more DLC - day 0 and day 1 DLC at that. Or making the MP DLC, etc.
 
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33. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 22:32 entr0py
 
While this won't effect their legal requirements anywhere else in the world, I hope once Valve is forced to build this system they'll find it helps their business and end up willingly rolling it out in other regions.

Shareholders love the idea of eliminating the second hand market for games. But what they don't appreciate is that customers are more likely to buy new $60 games if they retain some of their value. Home consoles were not killed off by the ability of customers to gift, sell, or rent games. Quite the opposite, since PC software gained an exemption from the first sale doctrine, consoles have gained a larger market share. Sometimes not screwing the customer as hard as possible is actually the way to go.

 
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32. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 21:04 Cutter
 
How much does Actiblizz make on COD every year or two? A billion? And that's after the 300 mil in production and marketing costs, right? And the lion share of that is consoles where they do resales, yeah? So how many of you are going to cry yourselves to sleep over the "potential" loss of PC resales that might cost them 50 million or so for something that big.

And let's not forget, as we've all known forever, that potential sales don't mean shit. Like the lost sales because of piracy BS because who says anyone would buy the game to begin with or at least buy it new at the maximum price point? Hell, most of us wait for at least 50% or better sales on most new titles anyway. The majority of us can count on one hand how many titles we buy day one every year. And yeah, maybe we're the minority but it's not like other people don't do it. I don't begrudge the devs/pubs taking a small cut of used games through a service like Steam but if it's all or nothing mentality than I say give them nothing. That sort of greed is entirely unwarranted. Fuck them, then yeah, in that case I'm waiting for a year or two instead until I'm seeing 75 points off anyway.

 
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31. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 20:44 xXBatmanXx
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 13:26:
I've always felt the first-sale doctrine should apply to everything anwyay. This whole work once get paid forever thing is bullshit. It's ridiculous how it applies to some things and not others. It's entirely arbitrary. I can re-sell my car but not my game?

I think this is possibly where their Market function may be heading. If GMG can do it, then why not Steam? In the US there aren't really any hurdles, other states i think Steam MUST allow sales don't they?

I dunno, I guess I would sell some crap games I have, but for the most part, I want to keep them all. Wish I never sold the 200+ NES games I had, or the 100+ Genesis games I had, etc......

Digital items don't degrade, physical do, not sure how that has any play in it - who knows. but even physical games with cd keys aren't resellable.....

I guess I don't care either way.
 
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30. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 20:37 HorrorScope
 
Love how it takes European laws to move consumer rights forward and not the states.  
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29. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 20:31 NKD
 
s1mon75 wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 20:00:
This is why the US and Australia suck balls and why Europe is fucking awesome. Europe supports its citizens interests while the Australian and US governments are all for protecting big business, at the expense of its citizens.

If only it were that simple. Europe protects big business as long as it's European big business.
 
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28. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 20:00 s1mon75
 
This is why the US and Australia suck balls and why Europe is fucking awesome. Europe supports its citizens interests while the Australian and US governments are all for protecting big business, at the expense of its citizens.  
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27. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 18:16 Ant
 
Nate wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 12:48:
This is fairly stupid. You purchase games on Steam knowing that there is no resale. Your decision to buy at their prices should reflect this.

Is there any online digital seller that's allows resale? Doubt it. Very good reasons why it doesn't make sense. Allowing resale adds extra work for Steam for no reward. And then the fact that those downloaded games can be resold repeatedly forever.
This is why I avoid (buy/purchas)ing DRMed software, videos, etc. that can't be transferred. I do love Amazon for its MP3s that I can copy easily.
 
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26. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 17:49 Golwar
 
NKD wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 13:25:
I wonder if any of you have actually thought about the implications of peer-to-peer used games market on Steam...

To make it simple, you have two buttons that are effectively "Buy for Cheap from another user" and "Buy for Expensive from the developer/publisher."

Instead of selling 500,000 copies, a developer sells 50,000 that just get recycled over and over again for eternity. You don't see this with console games because there's an inconvenience factor and the most convenient way has an annoying middle man that takes most the money. (Gamestop, most commonly).

Whether it's within our rights or not, it's definitely not in our best interests, because it would decimate the Steam catalog as publishers bail out from a platform that discourages its users from even buying from the publisher.

nin wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 13:18:

While I hate to seem like the white knight here, I think the reality is even if Steam wanted to allow it, the bigger problem is publishers actually agreeing to it.


That's basically the issue. Even if they somehow force Steam to offer a used game store (which is a questionable proposition at best), they can't force publishers to offer their titles on Steam.

What gave you the impression that this is a Steam specific topic? If it must be possible to sell games on Steam, that will also impact any other store and platform. Including the publishers' own stores, as Origin.
Did you never hear about precedent?
 
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25. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 17:44 eRe4s3r
 
NewMaxx wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 17:24:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 21, 2013, 13:04:
What an absurd post. We Europeans have the RIGHT to resale because that's what the LAW says. And if Steam wants the European gaming market pie, it has to abide to our rules and laws.

All fine and good...then please stop whining about how games cost the same amount of Euros as US dollars (and thus more expensive, relatively). Guess what...this is but one reason why.

I would actually not care at all if I could resell at 50% loss or less ;p
 
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24. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 17:37 Simon Says
 
Once again it's a simple question and easily answered by the even more simple: which argument is based on "fear of not having enough" and which is based on the opposite, that is, abundance.

Fear based motivations result in CONTROL exerted on third parties or itself which ALWAYS leads EVENTUALLY to the worst possible outcome.

Here we got 2 arguments:

1st, fear based, "but it'll kill profit and reduce prime valued first sales".

2nd, abundance/trust based, "second hand sales in a used game market might actually be more beneficial in the long run to the developers and everyone involved".

According to free will law and natural law in general, this is a no-brainer.

Of course, according to primitve societies/cultures, ( make no mistakes, technologically, we're advanced, but otherwise, we're freaking cavemens ) it's a total headache.

In an advanced society, this wouldn't even be debated, free will would win everytime. And free will here is in the absence of control on the product and thus the consumer once it's sold. Otherwise, it just infringes the free will of the consumer with no real PROVEN benefits, just fear motivated theoretical benefits.

And no, reselling the product can't infringe the free will of the developer, since the application of this "free will" would therefore infringe another'S free will. One's free will stops when another begins, in this case, the free will of the developer stops when the product is out of it's hands.

So simple logic even a child would find it obvious, go ahead and present the case to one without trying to influence him and hear the truth coming from it's mouth, untainted by wants and fear. Go ahead.

See?

This comment was edited on Jul 21, 2013, 21:43.
 
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23. Re: Steam Game Resale EU Court Case This Year? Jul 21, 2013, 17:25 Sacrifice
 
I've got too many games in my Steam library. It would be nice to have the ability to sell some of them with a percentage going back to the service (Steam) and the game developer.  
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