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Star Citizen Economy Trailer

A new trailer from Star Citizen is a guide to the economy in the upcoming space simulation. The clip features some gameplay footage as Chris Roberts discusses how various elements interact dynamically in the game's pursuit of a true supply and demand-based system. He gives the example of some supplies that would be used to create missiles being hijacked will reduce missile production in a local area, driving up prices, adding that the missiles expended in stealing or destroying those supplies will factor into the equation as well. Thanks VG247.

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28. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 01:37 Flatline
 
ItBurn wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 23:28:
I'm not sure he can accomplish a perfectly balanced fully dynamic economy, but I'm sure he can accomplish some of it. Also, stop with the negativity. When was the last time a game ATTEMPTED to do something cool design-wise. Nowadays designers are useless, it's just clones of copies. How many of our favorite classic games had high goals that were never fully reached, but allowed these games to become great. Applaud the guy. Don't pay if you don't want to, no one is forcing you. I'm reminded of Garriot saying that all designers suck and I think that that's what he meant. Not that I'm excited about his next game, but still, he did design great stuff. Chris Roberts on the other hand has a better track record.

I backed this back during kickstarter. I *want* it to succeed. Desperately.

But there's a difference between promising the earth, moon, and stars and delivering the same. I've been burned enough, and know enough technically, that the sales pitch has to match the reality of business and technology. And right now the pitch isn't matching up very well.

I'm also fucking sick of every new piece of news coming with an "give us moar money!" button next to it. As I said before, I feel like a chump for *only* putting 60 or 80 or whatever it was towards this game back during kickstarter, when now that money could go towards a ship geared specifically towards the style of gameplay I might prefer to play.

It's a bullshit sucker punch and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that there's anything I can do about it at this point.

I'm trying to stay grounded because I know if I let myself get excited and hyped there will come a moment when he says "you need 8 high-end servers to run a player-owned shard" or "private servers are off the table" or "single player is being cut down to 5 missions. Think of them as an offline tutorial really" or "microtransactions for everyone!!!" type of deal, I'm going to be REALLY pissed.
 
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27. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 00:29 ItBurn
 
s1mon75 wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 00:26:
Doesnt Eve already have this? But they have infinite resources, eg on server restarts asteroids that were mined out the day before are respawned.

For an economy to work such as one they have described you need finite resources (like in the real world). But no MMO to date has even attempted finite resources.

Ill be watching this one with earnest

Nope. Seems to me like it'll work even with unlimited resources.
 
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26. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 00:26 s1mon75
 
Doesnt Eve already have this? But they have infinite resources, eg on server restarts asteroids that were mined out the day before are respawned.

For an economy to work such as one they have described you need finite resources (like in the real world). But no MMO to date has even attempted finite resources.

Ill be watching this one with earnest
 
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25. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 23:49 Cutter
 
And what about these mysterious backers know one's knows about? Didn't he say he already had $10 million secured? If that's the case then the agreements have been signed and you don't just give back the money. He's never entirely clear on anything, it's all much more implied than expressed, and that more than anything is what makes me wary. It has that snake oil feel to it. You don't know what's in it but it's guaranteed to be everything to everyone!
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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24. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 23:47 jimnms
 
Gnolt wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 13:28:
I really want to add that some people are going overboard with the ship "buying" stuff -- a month after launch and we will be hearing complaints of how little all that meant once you get a ways into the game - most likely the best actual ships and upgrades cannot be insured AND cannot be docked (corvettes i believe are the largest ship that can dock) so your guild must have 24 hour coverage to protect your high value assets that you have to leave "parked" in space -- also if you have the free hanger perk well it is only on the starter planet so you will have to fly back there to avoid being charged

Are you sure there are ships that can't dock with stations? They may bee too big to fit in a hangar, but they should still be able to dock with a space station, otherwise they'd have to have teleporters or shuttle craft, none of which I've read anything about. Either way I'd imagine for large ships that can't land on planets (or dock), then you need to park them in orbit around a planet in the heavily policed sectors.

This also brings up a good question of how the persistent universe servers handle disconnected players. From what I read on the instancing, if you're orbiting a highly populated planet, then there may be several different instances of this planet, so not all players would see you. If you're in orbit of this planet when you disconnect, will the PU server remove you from the universe? Also how will it handle people disconnecting if they get attacked? I'm sure all of this has been asked and answered on their forums.
 
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23. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 23:28 ItBurn
 
I'm not sure he can accomplish a perfectly balanced fully dynamic economy, but I'm sure he can accomplish some of it. Also, stop with the negativity. When was the last time a game ATTEMPTED to do something cool design-wise. Nowadays designers are useless, it's just clones of copies. How many of our favorite classic games had high goals that were never fully reached, but allowed these games to become great. Applaud the guy. Don't pay if you don't want to, no one is forcing you. I'm reminded of Garriot saying that all designers suck and I think that that's what he meant. Not that I'm excited about his next game, but still, he did design great stuff. Chris Roberts on the other hand has a better track record.  
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22. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 22:50 Scheherazade
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 22:22:
Flatline wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 21:59:
Anyway, I don't see some schmoe hosting this complicated of a server at home. Five bucks says that the private servers are either going to be completely nerfed or are going to be dropped entirely. And that's If and Only If they make good on all the online component stuff.

Something big has to give here. There's too much being promised.

One has to wonder. I was just wanting a nice update to the space sim genre, little coop, little trade. Not necessarily the great American game. As you say, his dreams sound like a sandbox'ish mmo.

I'll be ecstatic with just "Wing Commander Privateer; The MMO".
That's basically all I'm in it for.
Well. That and the fact that no CR game has let me down yet.

-scheherazade
 
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21. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 22:22 HorrorScope
 
Flatline wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 21:59:
Anyway, I don't see some schmoe hosting this complicated of a server at home. Five bucks says that the private servers are either going to be completely nerfed or are going to be dropped entirely. And that's If and Only If they make good on all the online component stuff.

Something big has to give here. There's too much being promised.

One has to wonder. I was just wanting a nice update to the space sim genre, little coop, little trade. Not necessarily the great American game. As you say, his dreams sound like a sandbox'ish mmo.
 
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20. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 21:59 Flatline
 
Scheherazade wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 20:14:
Dev wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:50:
How many of these "last chance now really mean it now" sales have they had at this point? lol

There is a core set of ships you can buy any time.

They had 'limited' ships for sale a few times.
They are limited in the sense that you can only buy them during special promotion times - not any time.
Sometimes only during certain phases/periods of the Kickstarter fund.
Sometimes only during 24 hour live streams.

There were 2 ships that were quantity limited : Scythe and Idris.

They did fudge the Idris by releasing a Patrol/Police version later (also in limited quantity).
Effectively, they made a 2nd Idris batch, and changed it up a little so they could hand-wave the old quantity limit.

-scheherazade


And that's all on top of the kickstarter packages the schmucks went for.

I'm going to question if a "perfect information" economy is going to work very well or is even feasible. It certainly isn't going to be feasible on a user-run server to keep track of twenty or thirty billion assets in real time all being moved by thousands of AI entities. And that all is based on an economic theory that I'm not sure is going to work. It almost seems like the universe "great unseen hand" has an omniscient eye and can see when people are hoarding and change the economic balance accordingly. But that's not how economics works. Perception, and especially flawed perception, is a big part of economics.

Anyway, I don't see some schmoe hosting this complicated of a server at home. Five bucks says that the private servers are either going to be completely nerfed or are going to be dropped entirely. And that's If and Only If they make good on all the online component stuff.

Something big has to give here. There's too much being promised.
 
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19. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 20:14 Scheherazade
 
Dev wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:50:
How many of these "last chance now really mean it now" sales have they had at this point? lol

There is a core set of ships you can buy any time.

They had 'limited' ships for sale a few times.
They are limited in the sense that you can only buy them during special promotion times - not any time.
Sometimes only during certain phases/periods of the Kickstarter fund.
Sometimes only during 24 hour live streams.

There were 2 ships that were quantity limited : Scythe and Idris.

They did fudge the Idris by releasing a Patrol/Police version later (also in limited quantity).
Effectively, they made a 2nd Idris batch, and changed it up a little so they could hand-wave the old quantity limit.

-scheherazade

 
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18. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 19:17 1badmf
 
actually they have all the money they need, 20something million. the crowdfunding is just to get away from private investor obligations. and for the record, their goal is 21million, not 24.  
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17. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 18:47 loomy
 
I'm skeptical they can deliver, but I'm not skeptical they can fund it.

approximate numbers:

after a year of pre-production and a year of public development, they've got 2 years left on schedule. chris says he needs 25 million. they have 14 million?

so, 30% into the public development, and they've got 50% of their funding?

the next 365 days will see the hanger and dogfighting modules, and more finished ship and game designs than we've already seen. most everything so far is prototype or theory.

to not fund, they will need to screw up pretty badly. they must crush a lot of dreams to not get the $11M in 2 years after getting $14M in 1.

my only question is how fun will it be, and how much content will get done. we'll judge the latter on how much their announced milestones slip.

my interpretation of the current star citizen deliverable schedule as announced:
- ship hanger in august 2013
- team deathmatch in december 2013
- planet/outpost first person social multiplayer and trading: Q2 2014
- beta of the single player game: Q3 2014
- beta of the full multiplayer: Q4 2014
- gone gold: H1 2015

I'll take bets on the 2013 schedule. over/under is they slip 1 month, so hanger slips to september, tdm slips to january. choose your fate
 
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16. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 16:19 Cutter
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 15:05:
Then join the other 1000 player servers which have UlimitedMissles=True set.

I'm all for this, that said I've been around the block way too many times to buy hype, it's all rubber on the road these days for me.

Amen. Talk is cheap, whiskey costs money. If something sounds to good to be true....
 
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15. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 15:05 HorrorScope
 
Then join the other 1000 player servers which have UlimitedMissles=True set.

I'm all for this, that said I've been around the block way too many times to buy hype, it's all rubber on the road these days for me.
 
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14. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:50 Dev
 
nin wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:31:
El Pit wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:24:
If they can pull this off with such a small budget, the guys deserve to be praised. If not... Well, we'll see.

To be fair, I think they're up to like 13 million. Still small, compared to the big pubs, but about 3 times what they started with...

They picked up $3 million in like a week, during this "last chance to buy these $200 ships with lifetime insurance" sale.
How many of these "last chance now really mean it now" sales have they had at this point? lol
 
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13. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:44 Mr. Tact
 
It sounds too good to be true to me. I'll believe they can pull this off in a way that causes a useful, reasonably stable economy when I see it.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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12. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:31 nin
 
El Pit wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:24:
If they can pull this off with such a small budget, the guys deserve to be praised. If not... Well, we'll see.

To be fair, I think they're up to like 13 million. Still small, compared to the big pubs, but about 3 times what they started with...

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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11. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:24 El Pit
 
If they can pull this off with such a small budget, the guys deserve to be praised. If not... Well, we'll see.  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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10. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:23 nin
 
Creston wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 14:20:
Please be as awesome as you look. Please be as awesome as you look.

Creston

No shit. No worried about the bells and whistles at this point so much as it becoming a DLC store zoo...

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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9. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 7, 2013, 14:20 Creston
 
Please be as awesome as you look. Please be as awesome as you look.

Creston
 
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