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Star Citizen Economy Trailer

A new trailer from Star Citizen is a guide to the economy in the upcoming space simulation. The clip features some gameplay footage as Chris Roberts discusses how various elements interact dynamically in the game's pursuit of a true supply and demand-based system. He gives the example of some supplies that would be used to create missiles being hijacked will reduce missile production in a local area, driving up prices, adding that the missiles expended in stealing or destroying those supplies will factor into the equation as well. Thanks VG247.

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48. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 9, 2013, 02:40 SlimRam
 
Honestly, the ONLY way to make this economy REALLY work is to bring back the slave trading in the original Privateer.....think about it. As a merchant you pop out of a gate right after a big battle and start tractoring in the escape pods (with REAL people in them). Then set course for the nearest planet to sell. Oh it could be AMAZING!

Until the slaves somehow break out of the holding cells, then mutiny your ship, then beat the shit out of you, throw YOUR ass in your own holding cells, then the ship is attacked by pirates, they take over the ship - killing the freed slaves that took the ship from you in the first place and taking your ass to a pirate trading station, where you get traded for a ton of 'Brilliance' then you are thrown in a dirty, dark dungeon with other poor bastards, and you all get repeatedly beaten and gang raped virtually as your character then decides to kill themselves by falling neck first on a broken liquor bottle as you lay face down and watch the blood drain from your pantless, ass raped, dying body....

Ok, on second thought maybe real live slave trading ISN'T such a good idea
 
Avatar 57335
 
They always say that everyone's good at something...

I just have to find the right kind of place that appreciates nude juggling of a midget, a hand grenade, and a porcupine while playing the kazoo and riding a unicycle backwards without a seat
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47. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 11:09 CJ_Parker
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 08:58:
... what I hate is false advertising. Cutscenes != Gameplay.

Dude, one more time: Those snips and clips are effectively gameplay. The interface may still be missing but this is how the final game is going to look. It's going to look really awesome because they are a) using the CryEngine 3 and b) have hired some top artist talent and c) have bought their own mo-cap studio recently ($10 million stretch goal) so they can animate shit to their heart's content all day long.

The original intent of SC has always been to bring back the AAA space sim. CR never wanted to make a typical low budget indie game. He has always wanted to invest $20+ million with a small part of it coming from the community and the other much larger chunk from investors. That was the plan anyway.
Due to the overwhelming success of the ongoing campaign, SC will most likely end up being the first fully crowd-funded AAA game in history with a budget of over $20 million just from gamers.


As for the market once the game has been released, I'm thinking that SC will still sell pretty well because of its popularity and hype.
This is generally an interesting topic with Kickstarters though. I hope that most KS devs are aware that they might have made the vast amount of sales up front. It might be very unwise to spend all of the funds on the development of the game because they might not have much income from sales post-release.
It will be interesting to watch just how big the niches of some of these projects are and how the ratio is going to turn out of up front sales vs post-release sales.
There might be a rude awakening waiting for some of the studios that are counting on or are used to a certain post-release sales performance that will never happen because the vast majority of the target audience has already paid up front.

 
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46. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 10:47 Ryan Lange
 
What I don't like is that there's theoretically some NPC out there counting the number of missiles shot in a dogfight and deciding that the price of those missiles needs to go up because X number of them were shot off. That kind of perfect economy information leads to extremely unusual artifacts in your economic model that end up leaving logic and experience behind.

Is that how it works, though? (I admittedly, with this video, just started taking notice of Star Citizen, so you probably have more information than I do.)

I might have to watch it again, but I didn't get the impression from the video that the AI would immediately know how many missiles were fired in a battle. That knowledge would come with a post-battle resupply, as a larger-than-usual slice of the missile stock gets bought up.

This comment was edited on Jul 8, 2013, 10:53.
 
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45. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 10:40 Creston
 
loomy wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 02:49:
> About 99% of the people who were going to support this have already done so

I don't think that is accurate. $14M and there is no game yet. There will be more people buying the game... when there is a game

I hope you're right. I doubt it, but I hope so.

Creston
 
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44. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 09:31 Slashman
 
Wildone wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 08:51:
So many haters out there, if it wasn't for CR no one would be even trying to make a space sim, its worth my $45 just for the attempt its been so fucking long...

That's BS. X: Rebirth is still being made. And other people have made space sims in the time Roberts was out of the picture.

I loved the Wing Commander and Privateer games. I'm not saying that he didn't make quality stuff in the past. That doesn't automatically mean he can make a project of this magnitude work.

There is a direct conflict between his online model and his single player model. Players hosting their own fully moddable universe while he offers a locked, P2W online experience seems more than a little crazy.

That's like WoW letting you host your own WoW instances only you can mod them AND never pay any more money to them than the initial cost of the game. It makes dubious business sense at best.

 
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43. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 08:58 InBlack
 
Hey who's hating? I would love to see this game get made, what I hate is false advertising. Cutscenes != Gameplay. CR has made so many promises that he is bound to break a good deal of them if he actually wants to ship a product. This in and of itself is not good, when we add false advertising on top of that to generate hits....well lets just say that Im sick and tired of big name AAA publishers resorting to outright blatant lies with their marketing, Im bitterly dissapointed that an indie developer would resort to the same shenanigans.

This comment was edited on Jul 8, 2013, 09:06.
 
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
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42. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 08:51 Wildone
 
Yea the 'graphics' should look exactly the same they are getting stuff into engine very quickly which is good.

So many haters out there, if it wasn't for CR no one would be even trying to make a space sim, its worth my $45 just for the attempt its been so fucking long...
 
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41. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 08:44 CJ_Parker
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 06:02:
Actually what irritated me is that the blurb stated that there was gameplay footage in the video, yet after watching the whole thing I discovered that there was none there. Unless you count that 2d star system demonstration as gameplay footage. I hope the game ends up looking like more than a simple powerpoint presentation.

The space parts and manning of the Hornet fighter were "gameplay" though it probably would have been a little bit more appropriate to call it "in-engine" rather than gameplay.

 
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40. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 07:14 BadIronTree
 

Actually what irritated me is that the blurb stated that there was gameplay footage in the video, yet after watching the whole thing I discovered that there was none there. Unless you count that 2d star system demonstration as gameplay footage. I hope the game ends up looking like more than a simple powerpoint presentation.

lol after 6 months you want game-play footage... lol
The hangar module will be out in late August and the alpha dogfight module at end of 2013

the game will be out late 2014 / early 2015
 
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39. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 06:02 InBlack
 
loomy wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 05:02:
> And what about these mysterious backers know one's knows about?

chris said he hasn't accepted big outside investment. and that his goal is to crowdfund the whole game. this is old and frequently written news


> So where is the gameplay footage in the video?? Im sick and tired of the fucking hype.

there is no game yet right? if you are irritated by watching the development process, you should not watch it

Actually what irritated me is that the blurb stated that there was gameplay footage in the video, yet after watching the whole thing I discovered that there was none there. Unless you count that 2d star system demonstration as gameplay footage. I hope the game ends up looking like more than a simple powerpoint presentation.
 
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
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38. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 05:25 jimnms
 
Flatline wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 01:37:
I feel like a chump for *only* putting 60 or 80 or whatever it was towards this game back during kickstarter, when now that money could go towards a ship geared specifically towards the style of gameplay I might prefer to play.

It's a bullshit sucker punch and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that there's anything I can do about it at this point.

You got a ship with your kickstarter. If I recall, the ship packages in the kickstarter were the same but cheaper as what they've offered on their site. Also, there is something you can do about it if you want a different ship, that was the point of the new site design. If you setup your account on the new site and link your kickstarter pledge, you can reclaim your current ship which will give you credit to change to a different ship.
 
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MeanJim on Steam
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37. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 05:16 ViRGE
 
loomy wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 05:02:
there is no game yet right? if you are irritated by watching the development process, you should not watch it
Indeed. It's only 7 months into what's expected to be a 24 month production process for Squadron 42, and longer yet for the complete Star Citizen. It's still early. There won't be much to show until the dogfighting module is near completion.
 
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36. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 05:02 loomy
 
> And what about these mysterious backers know one's knows about?

chris said he hasn't accepted big outside investment. and that his goal is to crowdfund the whole game. this is old and frequently written news


> So where is the gameplay footage in the video?? Im sick and tired of the fucking hype.

there is no game yet right? if you are irritated by watching the development process, you should not watch it
 
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35. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 04:28 Julio
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 04:06:
Im sick and tired of the fucking hype. If this was EA or Activision we would be screaming bloody murder

Just give Star Citizen $1200 for a limited time only ship and you too will be sure they're going to deliver on every promise they are making. I'm guessing fully functional personal servers don't make it - how else would the microtransaction model work here?
 
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34. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 04:06 InBlack
 
So where is the gameplay footage in the video?? Im sick and tired of the fucking hype. If this was EA or Activision we would be screaming bloody murder for the overhyped, overproduced trailer output and no game that Mr. Roberts is feeding us.  
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
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33. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 03:23 Dev
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 23:49:
And what about these mysterious backers know one's knows about? Didn't he say he already had $10 million secured? If that's the case then the agreements have been signed and you don't just give back the money. He's never entirely clear on anything, it's all much more implied than expressed, and that more than anything is what makes me wary. It has that snake oil feel to it. You don't know what's in it but it's guaranteed to be everything to everyone!
See thats why I think the whole P2W/micropayments/MMO stuff is being pushed so hard, because thats all the rage right now in private funding. I think its because he's beholden to it.
 
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32. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 03:03 Bludd
 
I kickstarted this (30 bux or something), and then I'll just wait until it is done. If it is good, then I'll be ecstatic. If it sucks, I'll be out 30 bux and who cares.  
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31. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 02:49 loomy
 
> About 99% of the people who were going to support this have already done so

I don't think that is accurate. $14M and there is no game yet. There will be more people buying the game... when there is a game
 
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30. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 02:23 Creston
 
loomy wrote on Jul 7, 2013, 18:47:
to not fund, they will need to screw up pretty badly. they must crush a lot of dreams to not get the $11M in 2 years after getting $14M in 1.

Where's that money going to come from, though? About 99% of the people who were going to support this have already done so. I doubt there's 11M worth of "undecided" people still in the wings. Is he basically expecting ever backer to just double their pledge over the next year?

Creston
 
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29. Re: Star Citizen Economy Trailer Jul 8, 2013, 01:47 Flatline
 
s1mon75 wrote on Jul 8, 2013, 00:26:
Doesnt Eve already have this? But they have infinite resources, eg on server restarts asteroids that were mined out the day before are respawned.

For an economy to work such as one they have described you need finite resources (like in the real world). But no MMO to date has even attempted finite resources.

Ill be watching this one with earnest

Demand is the other half of supply & demand. If demand outstrips supply, you see a price spike. Resources come in at a finite level. Even if there's unlimited resources in each resource node, there is a very finite speed that you can put resources into the economy: It takes time to mine/gather and that time can't be sped up. That effectively acts like a finite resource. Any scarcity bottleneck will suffice to make a pseudo-economy tick. Limited resources is the most basic because that's the one we're taught to think of in school.

Plus, it's easy to put resource drains/taxes/syphons/diversions into an artificial economy. Look at most MMOs: They have all kinds of outlets to keep gold in check. It may look like a closed economy, but money comes off of mobs & from NPC vendors initially, and eventually goes back to "the system" to be destroyed through auction taxes, cost of crafting, vending, etc...

What I don't like is that there's theoretically some NPC out there counting the number of missiles shot in a dogfight and deciding that the price of those missiles needs to go up because X number of them were shot off. That kind of perfect economy information leads to extremely unusual artifacts in your economic model that end up leaving logic and experience behind. You can see an example in today's stock market. It's far more volatile than it was 20 years ago because we have clusters of computers with perfect, less-than-a-thousandth-of-a-second knowledge of the stock market updating thousands of times per second all trying to second guess each other and make transactions where each trade nets you a few cents, but then make millions of those trades in seconds. When the programming isn't spot on and certain characteristics emerge in the market, every computer freaks, and the stock market plunges 300 points in 10 seconds.

In other words, perfect knowledge market AI makes human gaming of the economy/market less and less useful. And if the ratio of AI agents to humans really is 9 to 1 like was mentioned earlier, the end result is going to be that no human endeavor is going to matter or have any lasting impact in the market.
 
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