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Evening Consolidation

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27. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 11:50 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 11:37:
Beamer wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 01:59:
You sure about that? Pretty sure it's FUD.Microsoft did that entire stupid Scroogled campaign. I'm pretty sure that they do no more paid placement than Google does.

In the old days a lot of sites did exclusively paid listings. They all died.

They all died? Last I checked, Yahoo, the KING of paid listings, is still happily around (and still kicking themselves for not selling to MS for 400 hojillion dollars, or whatever it was they offered.)

I have no proof, obviously, but Bing works through the database method, and since that's in essence static data until they update it, it's FAR more susceptible to manual manipulation than Google's method.

Creston

Yahoo hasn't done their own search in almost a decade and has been Bing for, like, 4 years or so. And they were never really a paid placement company.
Ask.com was a paid placement company. Kadoodle was a paid placement company. The top 10 spots there were all bid spots.

Any article I'm finding, and they're all spotty, is saying that Bing/Yahoo and Google do their paid placement the exact same way. If you have proof otherwise I'd love to see it, because I can't find anything strongly one way or the other, but I'm pretty certain that what you're saying isn't true.

Someone on this board has to be in keyword search analysis.
 
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26. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 11:43 Creston
 
Xoxotl wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 01:56:
When I first saw this meme, I tried that on Bing to see what would happen, and "Xbox One is amazing" was the 6th choice on the drop down.

While I agree with every statement above, this looks like it's just some good ol' fashioned anti-Microsoft muckraking.

EDIT: I do have ad-block running, so I don't know if that's making a difference or not.

Tried it myself just now, both on an adblocked and non-adblocked browser, and see no listing of amazing anywhere on Bing. Same on Google. So either it's muckraking, or MS got caught with their hand in the cookie jar again and quickly altered the search results. Since it's MS, I find the latter just as equally plausible as the former.

Creston
 
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25. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 11:37 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 01:59:
You sure about that? Pretty sure it's FUD.Microsoft did that entire stupid Scroogled campaign. I'm pretty sure that they do no more paid placement than Google does.

In the old days a lot of sites did exclusively paid listings. They all died.

They all died? Last I checked, Yahoo, the KING of paid listings, is still happily around (and still kicking themselves for not selling to MS for 400 hojillion dollars, or whatever it was they offered.)

I have no proof, obviously, but Bing works through the database method, and since that's in essence static data until they update it, it's FAR more susceptible to manual manipulation than Google's method.

Creston
 
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24. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 10:39 Verno
 
Shop around a bit, I haven't paid full price for a PC game at release in years, there are always preorder discounts and other vendors selling closer to cost.  
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23. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 10:24 John
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 00:02:
PropheT wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 23:29:
There's a big difference between digital distribution on consoles and the PC.

One is probably cost. We always wondered id digital would bring costs down. We always wondered if cheaper games sold enough more to make it cheaper for the buyer and more profitable for the dev. I think in both cases it came true. Console world with the additional console license and arrogance... probably can't risk it.
The thing that sucks though is that many new PC games on Steam cost the same as the console version which is stupid. It's usually the big name games but still.. At least prices for PC games drop faster and seem to go on sale more often.
 
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22. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 10:12 Pigeon
 
I've not owned a console is a long time so I'm not sure how digital distribution works on them (please correct me if I get things wrong), but there are a few things I can think of that would render people reluctant to buy digital on that platform.

On a console can you back up digital purchase to an external drive or DVD? Due to hard drive space, internet speed, and data caps this is a big roadblock for a good many people.

It seems like many of the consoles require some level of subscription service for "advanced" features like online multi-player. Other than MMOs many people don't want to pay more money to use an integral feature in a game they've already paid for.

It strikes me that it would be advantageous to have all your games through a single digital distribution source. With the rather large caveat that if the service sucks you're screwed. On the PC there's competition, if you think Origin sucks you can use Steam. Don't like the way Steam does things you can use GOG. None of those services are going to have all the games you can use on a PC, but at least there's a choice of services. You're not completely at the whims of the service provider.
 
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21. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 09:41 Verno
 
They should absolutely include headsets, many people do not live in situations where they can just yell at the television. It is one of the major things they did right last gen and helped spur multiplayer adoption.  
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20. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 09:11 wtf_man
 
DuckDuckGo 90% of the time. Google 10% when the Duck doesn't give me what I want.  
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19. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 07:12 Redmask
 
Crustacean Soup wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 01:57:
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 00:03:
That headset is a pretty big deal to, I guess they are hoping that players now deem it a necessity. Like how the PS4 will have it in every box.
I did use a Kinect instead of an Xbox 360 headset for voice for awhile. It didn't pick up any background noise. The only problem was that it wouldn't pick me up if I talked softly, as I'm accustomed to doing with headsets to save my voice. You also can't easily dial the volume and mute the thing like you can with a headset.

The other problem is that most people are not going to want to talk to their TV for voice chat.
 
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18. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 04:00 jdreyer
 
PropheT wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 23:29:
RaZ0r! wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
Sony: Most gamers "don't want to buy online right now."

They don't?? Hmm I wonder what the stats are for games sold on Steam per year vs retail console games? Maybe they don't I dunno.

Jim Sterling explains the difference between DD on consoles and PC.

It's kind of an annoying video, but it's accurate. There's a big difference between digital distribution on consoles and the PC.

He explains it really well. Just skip the first 90s, which is the annoying part.
 
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17. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 01:59 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 01:52:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 22:27:
Beamer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
Bing actually isn't terrible. I'd say it's at least 95% as good as Google. But, I mean, Google is right there, just 2 extra keystrokes away, so why settle?

It's set as default on IE, and sometimes I'm in there for work and use it for search instead of switching over to Chr or FF. It's strange, but when I search the thing I'm looking for is one or two on Google. Bing will often list it on page 2 somehow. I wonder if Bing is just that bad, or am I so used to using Google that I've trained myself to enter the keywords to get the result I want, and they're not the same for Bing. Regardless, Google is more efficient for me.

No, Bing is just that terrible. Google runs on an algorithm that determines most popular (via number of hits) and puts that as #1. Bing works via the old "database" method, and simply takes money to put shit #1.

Ergo, Latin, Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bing.

Creston

You sure about that? Pretty sure it's FUD.
Microsoft did that entire stupid Scroogled campaign. I'm pretty sure that they do no more paid placement than Google does.

In the old days a lot of sites did exclusively paid listings. They all died.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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16. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 01:57 Crustacean Soup
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 00:03:
That headset is a pretty big deal to, I guess they are hoping that players now deem it a necessity. Like how the PS4 will have it in every box.
I did use a Kinect instead of an Xbox 360 headset for voice for awhile. It didn't pick up any background noise. The only problem was that it wouldn't pick me up if I talked softly, as I'm accustomed to doing with headsets to save my voice. You also can't easily dial the volume and mute the thing like you can with a headset.
 
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15. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 01:56 Xoxotl
 
When I first saw this meme, I tried that on Bing to see what would happen, and "Xbox One is amazing" was the 6th choice on the drop down.

Okay, maybe things have changed, so I loaded up IE (gah) and tried it again.

  • "Xbox One is terrible"

  • "Xbox One is going to fail"

  • "Xbox One is ugly"

  • "Xbox One is watching you"

  • "Xbox One is bad"

  • "Xbox One is crap"

  • "Xbox One is doomed"

  • "Xbox One is stupid"


  • While I agree with every statement above, this looks like it's just some good ol' fashioned anti-Microsoft muckraking.

    EDIT: I do have ad-block running, so I don't know if that's making a difference or not.
     
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    14. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 01:52 Creston
     
    jdreyer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 22:27:
    Beamer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
    Bing actually isn't terrible. I'd say it's at least 95% as good as Google. But, I mean, Google is right there, just 2 extra keystrokes away, so why settle?

    It's set as default on IE, and sometimes I'm in there for work and use it for search instead of switching over to Chr or FF. It's strange, but when I search the thing I'm looking for is one or two on Google. Bing will often list it on page 2 somehow. I wonder if Bing is just that bad, or am I so used to using Google that I've trained myself to enter the keywords to get the result I want, and they're not the same for Bing. Regardless, Google is more efficient for me.

    No, Bing is just that terrible. Google runs on an algorithm that determines most popular (via number of hits) and puts that as #1. Bing works via the old "database" method, and simply takes money to put shit #1.

    Ergo, Latin, Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bing.

    Creston
     
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    13. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 00:03 HorrorScope
     
    That headset is a pretty big deal to, I guess they are hoping that players now deem it a necessity. Like how the PS4 will have it in every box.  
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    12. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 25, 2013, 00:02 HorrorScope
     
    PropheT wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 23:29:
    There's a big difference between digital distribution on consoles and the PC.

    One is probably cost. We always wondered id digital would bring costs down. We always wondered if cheaper games sold enough more to make it cheaper for the buyer and more profitable for the dev. I think in both cases it came true. Console world with the additional console license and arrogance... probably can't risk it.
     
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    11. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 24, 2013, 23:29 PropheT
     
    RaZ0r! wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
    Sony: Most gamers "don't want to buy online right now."

    They don't?? Hmm I wonder what the stats are for games sold on Steam per year vs retail console games? Maybe they don't I dunno.

    Jim Sterling explains the difference between DD on consoles and PC.

    It's kind of an annoying video, but it's accurate. There's a big difference between digital distribution on consoles and the PC.
     
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    10. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 24, 2013, 23:02 Redmask
     
    You're right and he's wrong, Bing is awful and that's saying something considering how easily gamed Google is these days.  
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    9. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 24, 2013, 22:27 jdreyer
     
    Beamer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
    Bing actually isn't terrible. I'd say it's at least 95% as good as Google. But, I mean, Google is right there, just 2 extra keystrokes away, so why settle?

    It's set as default on IE, and sometimes I'm in there for work and use it for search instead of switching over to Chr or FF. It's strange, but when I search the thing I'm looking for is one or two on Google. Bing will often list it on page 2 somehow. I wonder if Bing is just that bad, or am I so used to using Google that I've trained myself to enter the keywords to get the result I want, and they're not the same for Bing. Regardless, Google is more efficient for me.
     
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    "Microsoft is the absent minded parent of PC gaming" - Verno
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    8. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 24, 2013, 21:58 Quboid
     
    Beamer wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:56:
    Redmask wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:43:
    nin wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 20:39:
    I was patching my home 7 machine this morning and saw one of the optional downloads was the bing toolbar - "fuck that!" I said...


    That's the only way they can get people to use the thing. You should see the volume of money Bing/MSN Search/Windows Live Search/etcetc has lost the company.

    Chart And note: those aren't cumulative bars.

    Wow, that's terrible. Nearly 3/4 of a billion dollars in 6 months? How? What does "Microsoft's Online Operations" encompass?
     
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    - Quboid
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