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MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks

Your Feedback Matters Update on Xbox One has word that Microsoft is pulling a 180 on the online requirement/DRM aspect of their upcoming Xbox One console system that alienated the core gaming community (thanks Giant Bomb and whathifi via Kotaku and nin). Give them credit for spin, as they focus on the love in the feedback they got on this, saying: "You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world." Here's word, where they also announce they no longer plan on having games region locked:

So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:

  • An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.
  • Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.

In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.

These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

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128 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 3.
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88. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 21:18 Tomas
 

I'm honestly not sure if the two ideas can be combined. I understood their need for the 24 hour check-in, because obviously if you sell the license back to retailer A, the console needs to know that you did so, and has to disable/delete your HD copy of it.

If you have freely tradeable game discs without online requirements, yet allow the sharing, then you're running back up against the check-in thing, no? Because otherwise 11 people would be playing the game off 1 disc, and then you give the disc to person B, who shares it with 10 friends, etc etc?

Creston

Haven't thought this trough a ton, but I'm imagining this only for digital sales, which they've noted will not be tradeable. In this case, you could go online, click to share with a buddy on your friends list. Next time he connects, he could see the "buddy X wants to share this game with you" and click "OK". It would then download to that new system. It would be marked in MS records as un-tradeable by the friend who got it shared to them. So they wouldn't be able to trade it. Sure, you could change your friends and share it a ton of times, but I'm sure they had systems in place to handle that. You just use those systems as best you can, updating the shareable lists each time the relevant parties log into the online system. It would be one good reason to consider buying digital vs physical. Ease of sharing with buddies anywhere in the world. You'd still have the multiplayer restrictions in place as they planned (only one copy of a game could play online at a time - the original owner would have to assign that out, I'd imagine). It should work pretty well unless I missed something in my quick once through thought process. I'm not sure how publishers would feel about it, but maybe they would get better percentages on the sales and or they prefer this system anyhow because it would in theory lead to more sales and less second hand sales. Just thinking out loud. =)

edit: for some reason the quote didn't take.
 
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87. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:28 wasteoid
 
Only days ago, Major Nelson was interviewed and appeared to argue that it was not easy to disable the 24-hour DRM check:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo#t=11m13s

Obviously, it was as easy as the interviewer claimed, just a switch to flip (asshole mode = false).

 
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86. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:17 WaltC
 
NKD wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 18:37:
To be fair, it might be as easy as flipping a switch for Larry and Don, but the people who actually have to implement all this shit and have no say in the decision making probably now have a lot of crunch time ahead of them. All because these fucktards can't make up their minds. How much? Impossible to say without knowing their development process, but the bitch of development is that it is sometimes harder to remove something than it is to add it.

Nah...;) None of that software was anywhere near remotely done, I'd bet on it. In any event Microsoft would have found it had bitten off way more than it could chew with its boasts of "game sharing" and its threats of DRM everywhere else. Talking about that kind of thing for one console is one thing--when you start talking a million consoles with each group of 10 xb1 owners sharing games--then at most you've got 1 xb1 owner out of every 10 who buys a game! The other 9 people get to play it gratis--free of charge!

That would go over with game devs like a lead balloon, seems to me. Not to even talk about publishers. I don't think the "shared library" thing would ever have worked--and all the customer uproar at present simply provides Microsoft with an excuse to ditch a "feature" they'd never have implemented anyway.

 
Avatar 16008
 
It is well known that I do not make mistakes--so if you should happen across a mistake in anything I have written, be assured that I did not write it!
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85. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:14 DangerDog
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:57:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:52:
and if that Steam article is accurate we may get to share our game library soon.

You mean select titles from the library (probably from indies mostly at first) since there is absolutely no fucking way that all of the big publishers have given Valve a general thumbs up on sharing.

either way, it's more than we have now. they could also implement a "share X" game weekend where you could play a game from your friends library only for a short time.
 
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84. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:09 Lorcin
 
For me this is a huge announcement in a rather off tangent way. What it says is M$ will implement a last minute on disk drm which will be cracked very early as it wasn't built into the system from the ground up.

Why does that interest me? Not because I wanna pirate games - I'll happily pay for the exclusives. I just don't want to pay for the hardware - I have enough boxes under my TV and hate Kinect.

Once the hardware is cracked porting their x86 based software onto our x86 hardware should be childs play.

I like the idea of being able to pick up a copy of halo 5 and playing it on my pc!
 
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83. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:02 HorrorScope
 
Medwynd wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:14:
I pretty much use MS for everything, for development, for entertainment, for my phones, for my pc, not because I am a fanboy as people will probably say, but because their hardware and software does everything I need it to do.

We all have our reasons. I only use MS for their OS, out of necessity. And it's not because I really really hate them. It's because they aren't price/performance winners anywhere else. And I'm not a fan of their dev languages because they aren't multi-plat. As soon as my employer gets that through their heads, the better we'll be long term, since their shit ages and needs updated, time and money.
 
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82. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 20:00 Rhialto
 
So they brang the XB1 equal to the PS4? I thought they would even try to surpass it and take the lead instad of simply following behind, which may result in staying in that position too regarding sales figure!  
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81. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:57 CJ_Parker
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:52:
and if that Steam article is accurate we may get to share our game library soon.

You mean select titles from the library (probably from indies mostly at first) since there is absolutely no fucking way that all of the big publishers have given Valve a general thumbs up on sharing.
 
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80. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:54 Creston
 
Tomas wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:25:
Some ideas for MS to win back some of the pissed off customers:

Continue to allow the 10 friends thing for digital game purchases. Since you can't trade them anyhow, allow your friends to use your games as you'd planned. That way you can also test out your digital theories, but it's better than what Steam does, and it could gain you some favor. Sure, you'd probably have to require a login check to verify your buddy could use the game when they first want to use it...but since it's digital you'd have to be online anyhow to download it. Don't require a check after it's on their system for offline play.

I'm honestly not sure if the two ideas can be combined. I understood their need for the 24 hour check-in, because obviously if you sell the license back to retailer A, the console needs to know that you did so, and has to disable/delete your HD copy of it.

If you have freely tradeable game discs without online requirements, yet allow the sharing, then you're running back up against the check-in thing, no? Because otherwise 11 people would be playing the game off 1 disc, and then you give the disc to person B, who shares it with 10 friends, etc etc?

Creston
 
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79. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:52 DangerDog
 
I've grown to like not needing a disc in a drive to play a game.

PC wins out again.

and if that Steam article is accurate we may get to share our game library soon.
 
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78. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:51 Creston
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:18:
entr0py wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:08:
I was waiting for this news. The very day after the console was announced Microsoft started backtracking. Apparently no longer immune to universal disdain.

Microsoft dismisses Xbox One online requirements and used-game fees as 'potential scenarios'

Now all they have to do is offer a Kinect-free version for $100 less and it would be a decent option.

It's still slightly underpowered compared to the PS4 hardware and costs $10 more for online multiplayer support.

Microsoft done goofed it up.


And then there are the people who remember the RRoD fiasco, and the reports of current yields in MS's factories and think "Another launch with 60% failure rate?"

Before all the DRM shit started happening, I wasn't interested in the Xbone because of MS's horseshit 'quality' control, and I don't quite get why the MS fanboys aren't worried about it. I guess sending in your console four times for repairs is normal?

Creston
 
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77. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:50 Tumbler
 
The xbox one eighty. Good lord that is stuck.  
99gamers.com-Game trading site, PC digital trading!
Kickstarter "Game Developer"!
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76. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:42 Creston
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:30:
Creston wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 18:01:
wtf_man wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 17:45:
Well... it's a beginning, and I'm glad they had some sense knocked into them by the gaming community.


As much as I'd love to say that it was gamers bitching that caused this, it really wasn't. It was places like Gamestop and Best Buy simply refusing to take Xbone preorders anymore, and actively steering people towards a PS4 (if reports are to be believed) that would have caused it. Microsoft doesn't give a flying fuck about its customers, only about publishers and retail channels.

Creston

Which are driven by customers. You are right individually they do not, collectively, it's all they got.

I honestly doubt MS even sees that. Their ultra-arrogant attitude towards their customers is just so fucking weird, and it's born out of a knowledge that in their primary market, there simply isn't a replacement. And that line of thinking just permeates into everything they do. "Customers will like this, because we tell them so."

Apparently someone at MS forgot that the Xbone isn't a monopolistic device, and thus its (potential) customers don't have to take the bullshit just lying down.

Creston

This comment was edited on Jun 19, 2013, 19:56.
 
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75. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:39 Medwynd
 
The one point people keep making is that Sony some how cares about their customers and MS doesn't. Both companies care about what gets them the most sales, period. MS got the word that people were not onboard with their new system and changed it. Either way they get lambasted. They change and people complain, they give them what they want and people complain.

I just know to automatically stop reading a post when someone posts something childish by using m$ or XBone, all it does is show their lack of ability to piece together a coherent thought.
 
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74. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:39 Jackplug
 
I have a few words to say on this subject and its, who gives a shit!  
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73. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:38 robdot
 
What a bummer they pussed out on this. the idea of online shared libraries was fantastic. But ,don matrick and larry nelson have to be feeling like idiots now, turns out angry joe was smarter than both of them.  
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72. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:38 loomy
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:30:
Creston wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 18:01:
wtf_man wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 17:45:
Well... it's a beginning, and I'm glad they had some sense knocked into them by the gaming community.


As much as I'd love to say that it was gamers bitching that caused this, it really wasn't. It was places like Gamestop and Best Buy simply refusing to take Xbone preorders anymore, and actively steering people towards a PS4 (if reports are to be believed) that would have caused it. Microsoft doesn't give a flying fuck about its customers, only about publishers and retail channels.

Creston

Which are driven by customers. You are right individually they do not, collectively, it's all they got.

we can't read the minds of the people at microsoft, but we can say for certain that gamespot and others were not mad because consumers were. they were made because microsoft was going to charge them money for used game resales.

the purpose of the contested xbox one features was to steal revenue from gamestop and other used game retailers. it was not going to prevent used game sales. it was an attack on gamestop, not consumers. consumers would still buy and sell used games under this system -- and gamestop would pay microsoft to do it.
 
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71. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:36 Medwynd
 
Cyanotetyphas wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:26:
Medwynd wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 19:14:
I don't rent games, I don't loan my games out, I don't buy used games, I don't trade in my games, and these seem to be the things people disliked about the drm system the most.

This is perfectly reasonable (okay maybe not the 4 decades of hating a company) but as we've seen with DRM on the PC, these sorts of things usually end up hurting people that they were never intended to affect. SecuROM, etc. and always online schemes greatly diminished the PC as a platform and ALWAYS affect legitimate users who have good connections and paid. See PC Microsoft LIVE, UPlay on AC2, and Diablo3 for recent examples.

Oh, don't misunderstand me, I tried to be clear. I don't hate their company, if they made something I liked I would buy it, I just haven't been compelled by any of their offerings and always purchased something I felt better suited what I needed or felt was better quality.

I've tried many of their products, including the PS4 at E3, and just didn't feel it was better. To be honest, the PS4 and XBox One felt very similar in gameplay, so they didn't really give me any compelling reason to switch to a foreign ecosystem.
 
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70. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:30 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 18:01:
wtf_man wrote on Jun 19, 2013, 17:45:
Well... it's a beginning, and I'm glad they had some sense knocked into them by the gaming community.


As much as I'd love to say that it was gamers bitching that caused this, it really wasn't. It was places like Gamestop and Best Buy simply refusing to take Xbone preorders anymore, and actively steering people towards a PS4 (if reports are to be believed) that would have caused it. Microsoft doesn't give a flying fuck about its customers, only about publishers and retail channels.

Creston

Which are driven by customers. You are right individually they do not, collectively, it's all they got.
 
Avatar 17232
 
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69. Re: MS Backtracks on Xbox One DRM & Region Locks Jun 19, 2013, 19:27 Julio
 
Time to double down and preorder a second PS4. Microsoft needs to be punished for their arrogance, and Sony rewarded for their pro-consumer mindset.  
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