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It Came from E3 2013, Part Six

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100 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 4.
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40. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 00:26 Rattlehead
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:15:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:55:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:42:

I think the real issue is most women just aren't interested in building video games in the first place. The idea that there's all these millions of women who are playing console and PC games is just not reality.

So it makes sense that it would be a male dominated industry.
It does limit the recruiting pool significantly. You have to start getting them interested young. You first have to be interested in games before you can be interested in making them. The reason there are so few women in the games industry is because there are social stigmas that say women can't be serious gamers. You have to attract girls to gaming to get them out of their shell of conformity to societal norms. Look at male nurses, still fairly rare because of some macho pre-conceptions that it's a girls job, but they are making strides in that area by showing male nurses on TV shows etc.

Painting sexism as the bogeyman doesn't work because by the time a girl even has the social awareness to really see sexism, it's too late. If she's already interested in games, some perceived sexism isn't going to stop her from pursuing her dream. If she isn't interested, then it doesn't matter, you're not going to get her now, she's already got other dreams.

Which is why I find calling the game industry sexist because of a few booth babes at E3 so god damn ridiculous. Women generally don't get into techy games shit, that's just how it is. Yet we're now hearing these loud voices from a vocal minority of feminist who paint such a bullshit sob story. Anyone with half a brain can see through it. The ones who do fall for this shit generally fall into the PC/Thought police crowd to begin with, beating their little war drum for their socially created war on women that doesn't really exist.
You know it was a male who wrote the article right? My god you're dense! Try actually clicking the link before mouthing off! Unless one male suddenly represents a minority of feminists...

In fact, it seems men are more offended by sexism then women, which I find weird.
 
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39. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:39 RollinThundr
 
Rossafur wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:18:
killer_roach wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:10:
Quoting the title of Adam Carolla's book?

Maaaaybe. ;-) Haha

Just imagine how rich and powerful Oprah could have been, if only we weren't such a horribly sexist (and racist!) society!

And Obama getting elected twice. America's so racist though!
 
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38. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:30 Klaus Flouride
 
Post pics of booth babes or GTFO.  
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When all else fails empty the magazine...
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37. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:18 Rossafur
 
killer_roach wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:10:
Quoting the title of Adam Carolla's book?

Maaaaybe. ;-) Haha

Just imagine how rich and powerful Oprah could have been, if only we weren't such a horribly sexist (and racist!) society!
 
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36. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:15 RollinThundr
 
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:55:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:42:

I think the real issue is most women just aren't interested in building video games in the first place. The idea that there's all these millions of women who are playing console and PC games is just not reality.

So it makes sense that it would be a male dominated industry.

It does limit the recruiting pool significantly. You have to start getting them interested young. You first have to be interested in games before you can be interested in making them. The reason there are so few women in the games industry is because there are social stigmas that say women can't be serious gamers. You have to attract girls to gaming to get them out of their shell of conformity to societal norms. Look at male nurses, still fairly rare because of some macho pre-conceptions that it's a girls job, but they are making strides in that area by showing male nurses on TV shows etc.

Painting sexism as the bogeyman doesn't work because by the time a girl even has the social awareness to really see sexism, it's too late. If she's already interested in games, some perceived sexism isn't going to stop her from pursuing her dream. If she isn't interested, then it doesn't matter, you're not going to get her now, she's already got other dreams.

Which is why I find calling the game industry sexist because of a few booth babes at E3 so god damn ridiculous. Women generally don't get into techy games shit, that's just how it is. Yet we're now hearing these loud voices from a vocal minority of feminist who paint such a bullshit sob story. Anyone with half a brain can see through it. The ones who do fall for this shit generally fall into the PC/Thought police crowd to begin with, beating their little war drum for their socially created war on women that doesn't really exist.
 
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35. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:10 killer_roach
 
Rossafur wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:01:
Don't worry, in 50 years (fewer, now) we'll all be chicks...

Quoting the title of Adam Carolla's book?
 
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34. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:02 Prez
 
Rossafur wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:01:
Don't worry, in 50 years (fewer, now) we'll all be chicks...

LMAO!! Laugh2
 
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33. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 23:01 Rossafur
 
Don't worry, in 50 years (fewer, now) we'll all be chicks...  
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32. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:55 NKD
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:42:

I think the real issue is most women just aren't interested in building video games in the first place. The idea that there's all these millions of women who are playing console and PC games is just not reality.

So it makes sense that it would be a male dominated industry.

It does limit the recruiting pool significantly. You have to start getting them interested young. You first have to be interested in games before you can be interested in making them. The reason there are so few women in the games industry is because there are social stigmas that say women can't be serious gamers. You have to attract girls to gaming to get them out of their shell of conformity to societal norms. Look at male nurses, still fairly rare because of some macho pre-conceptions that it's a girls job, but they are making strides in that area by showing male nurses on TV shows etc.

Painting sexism as the bogeyman doesn't work because by the time a girl even has the social awareness to really see sexism, it's too late. If she's already interested in games, some perceived sexism isn't going to stop her from pursuing her dream. If she isn't interested, then it doesn't matter, you're not going to get her now, she's already got other dreams.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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31. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:51 Acleacius
 
Over looking one minor detail, for the most part of 6000 years it has been male dominated societies, setting the rules with violence. We live in a rape societies, from high school, college and professional sports to the military. Women are blamed for the sexuality, rapes justified because of clothing or just the fact a girl was drinking.

The reason women are objectified for profit is because men created the societies and laws. In the US women still don't have federal Equal Rights 35 of 38 ratified states needed. You'll be shocked to know there is one political party fighting to prevent ERA. Bet you can't even guess, which party is trying to prevent women from being equal in the eyes of the law. They have even passed more than 150 pieces of legislation in JUST in the last 2.5 years to repress women's rights even more.

Women still don't have equal educational funding, yet have higher rates of college degrees. Many women are forced to sexualize themselves for profits to support their childeren as models, dancers and prostitutes. It is a majority women that stay with and raise families alone, that was even before divorce existed.

There is no way to separate male egotism for profit, from the suffrage of women. What male can justify this?
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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30. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:42 RollinThundr
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:31:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:17:
Beamer wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:14:

I don't get your point. "I don't see how one problematic industry is different than another problematic industry." So people shouldn't try to improve something if other things are also screwed up?


I'm saying worrying about some minor contributing factor in one industry is counter-productive to solving the greater issue, which is getting women interested in the industry. "There are booth babes at cons!" isn't the big deterrent to getting women involved. It's the men. Women don't want to be part of a sausage fest, so it'll be slow going building momentum. The more women there are, the more women who will want to join in.

I think the issue is that women don't want to join the games industry because it's perceived as being sexist. This perception is supported by many things, booth babes not the least of them. If you had no interest in being a model, would you really want to join an industry where people only acknowledge your appearance and not your skills and accomplishments? There are a lot of variables at work here and getting rid of booth babes obviously wouldn't solve everything. However, it would at least be a start.

I think the real issue is most women just aren't interested in building video games in the first place. The idea that there's all these millions of women who are playing console and PC games is just not reality.

So it makes sense that it would be a male dominated industry.
 
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29. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:31 Jerykk
 
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:17:
Beamer wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:14:

I don't get your point. "I don't see how one problematic industry is different than another problematic industry." So people shouldn't try to improve something if other things are also screwed up?


I'm saying worrying about some minor contributing factor in one industry is counter-productive to solving the greater issue, which is getting women interested in the industry. "There are booth babes at cons!" isn't the big deterrent to getting women involved. It's the men. Women don't want to be part of a sausage fest, so it'll be slow going building momentum. The more women there are, the more women who will want to join in.

I think the issue is that women don't want to join the games industry because it's perceived as being sexist. This perception is supported by many things, booth babes not the least of them. If you had no interest in being a model, would you really want to join an industry where people only acknowledge your appearance and not your skills and accomplishments? There are a lot of variables at work here and getting rid of booth babes obviously wouldn't solve everything. However, it would at least be a start.
 
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28. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:17 NKD
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:14:

I don't get your point. "I don't see how one problematic industry is different than another problematic industry." So people shouldn't try to improve something if other things are also screwed up?


I'm saying worrying about some minor contributing factor in one industry is counter-productive to solving the greater issue, which is getting women interested in the industry. "There are booth babes at cons!" isn't the big deterrent to getting women involved. It's the men. Women don't want to be part of a sausage fest, so it'll be slow going building momentum. The more women there are, the more women who will want to join in.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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27. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:16 Beamer
 
Also, the problem isn't "some people are models." The problem is "the role of women in the industry is exclusively sex symbol."

You guys are debating how these models feel and the choices they made. That's not really relevant. You're focusing on individuals there. This isn't about individuals.

 
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26. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:14 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:08:
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:02:
Again, standing out is fine. However, when people assume that your only qualification is looking good, that's problematic, especially when it affects what opportunities are made available to you. How people perceive you is a pretty important factor in any career. After the response Jade Raymond received during her marketing of AC, she will likely never do anything like that again because dealing with the backlash wasn't worth it. The existence of booth babes only perpetuates the idea that women in the games industry exist only as eye-candy.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing how the game industry is any different than any other male dominated industry. Other industries don't have booth babes, and attractive women in positions in those industries are also assumed to have gotten there via sex or looks, or whatever. Especially if they have a position like Jade Raymond where she was put forth as the public face of a project.

While booth babes may be some minor contributing factor since human psychology is complicated, there's no way to rule it out entirely, beautiful women stand out just as much at cons without booth babes. And men say and do the same things.

I don't get your point. "I don't see how one problematic industry is different than another problematic industry." So people shouldn't try to improve something if other things are also screwed up?

 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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25. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:08 NKD
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:02:
Again, standing out is fine. However, when people assume that your only qualification is looking good, that's problematic, especially when it affects what opportunities are made available to you. How people perceive you is a pretty important factor in any career. After the response Jade Raymond received during her marketing of AC, she will likely never do anything like that again because dealing with the backlash wasn't worth it. The existence of booth babes only perpetuates the idea that women in the games industry exist only as eye-candy.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing how the game industry is any different than any other male dominated industry. Other industries don't have booth babes, and attractive women in positions in those industries are also assumed to have gotten there via sex or looks, or whatever. Especially if they have a position like Jade Raymond where she was put forth as the public face of a project.

While booth babes may be some minor contributing factor since human psychology is complicated, there's no way to rule it out entirely, beautiful women stand out just as much at cons without booth babes. And men say and do the same things.
 
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24. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:04 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 21:08:
Morga wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 20:40:
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 20:34:
Pumas wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 18:36:
One could argue that a modeling career promotes the objectification of men and women. At E3, the primary role of women is to serve as eye candy. If you're a semi-attractive female at E3, there's a pretty good chance you'll be mistaken for a booth babe. I know because that happened to my friend at this E3. If there were no booth babes, this wouldn't happen.

People Voluntarily choose to become models. They reap financial benefits with their attractiveness, some women become super-models.

Whether a company hires booth-babes or booth-dudes to promote their products is their choice and they have every right in a free society.

If you're mistaken for something you're not is no justification to then stereotype all men as being ignorant in that regard.

Most dirty, dangerous jobs are done by men. Trash collector, plumber, soldier, sewage worker, miner etc. 95% of workplace deaths are men, and consequently men have 6 year lower life-expectancy.
The feminists don't care about those things though, because it affects men.



Do you want a White History Month, too?

No one has ever mistaken me for a soldier, sewage worker, miner, etc. I don't go down the road getting leered at. I've never had a superior make a pass at me.

Incidentally, those jobs you listed? Ones you claim are male-dominated? What percentage of women that apply for those jobs do you think actually get taken seriously?

We know, there's this huge war on women, and it's all the Republicans behind it of course. I bet no one ever mistook you for having a brain either with the way you tow the PC stance, history revisions, and feminazis of the world either.
 
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23. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 22:02 Jerykk
 
Again, standing out is fine. However, when people assume that your only qualification is looking good, that's problematic, especially when it affects what opportunities are made available to you. How people perceive you is a pretty important factor in any career. After the response Jade Raymond received during her marketing of AC, she will likely never do anything like that again because dealing with the backlash wasn't worth it. The existence of booth babes only perpetuates the idea that women in the games industry exist only as eye-candy.  
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22. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 21:51 NKD
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 21:41:
There's a difference between admiration and sexism. If people think you only got your job because of your looks, that's not admiration. Again, see Jade Raymond for an example of how the general gaming populace perceives women. There's a reason why she's stayed out of the spotlight since Assassin's Creed.

Nobody is saying that being an attractive female is a bad thing. What's bad is how these females are treated in the games industry. If you find someone attractive, that's fine, but you shouldn't fixate on their appearance at the expense of everything else, nor should you assume that their sole purpose in life is to look pretty.

You made the assertion that somehow booth babes are partially to blame for this though. When in fact, it's just a matter of standing out. A woman in a predominantly male role is going to draw attention. An attractive one more so.

My first job out of high school was as a receptionist, I can tell you that even as an average looking young guy, I was pretty much a piece of meat when some middle aged woman walked in to the office. They are so used to running into other women in that position, that they were a little surprised to run into a young guy and got a little bit flustered. And I wasn't even a hunk by any stretch of the imagination.

You're going to stand out sometimes in life, and that means unwanted attention. Nothing you can really do about it, and it's stupid to fault people for noticing you, and equally stupid to care what the sheeple think about you or how you got your job.
 
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21. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 16, 2013, 21:41 Jerykk
 
There's a difference between admiration and sexism. If people think you only got your job because of your looks, that's not admiration. Again, see Jade Raymond for an example of how the general gaming populace perceives women. There's a reason why she's stayed out of the spotlight since Assassin's Creed.

Nobody is saying that being an attractive female is a bad thing. What's bad is how these females are treated in the games industry. If you find someone attractive, that's fine, but you shouldn't fixate on their appearance at the expense of everything else, nor should you assume that their sole purpose in life is to look pretty.
 
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