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It Came from E3 2013, Part Six

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100 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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60. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 12:10 HorrorScope
 
I'm not opposed to full nudity for booth babes at these events either.

We have to have bigger issues than this.
 
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59. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 12:06 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:50:
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:26:
Lastly, you guys flame the shit out of those Gaming Tropes & Women videos. Of course no women come here. This site is almost exclusively straight white males (with the occasional netnerd.) Now, is that because only straight white males enjoy video games, or is that because there's something in the culture of video games and proudly on display here that doesn't make other groups feel welcome?

Sexism is a reality of industries with a heavy gender leaning. And like I said earlier, it sounds like a Catch-22, but the solution really is to just market the fuck out of the industry to the female population. The more females there are, the more females will be interested in taking part. And once the gender imbalance starts to level out, you'll see the sexism start to fade away.

In short, sexism doesn't cause the lack of females in the industry, the lack of females in the industry causes the sexism. That imbalance in representation causes females to be considered the "other." and makes it very easy to fall into casual sexism.

We've seen this throughout history. That's just how society works. If you want something, you have to fight for it. If you're sitting around waiting for straight white male sausage fest to stop being sexist, racist, and homophobic, you'll be waiting forever, because it's not going to happen. Put a bunch of similar people together, and very quickly the people who aren't similar become the butt of all the jokes.

If you really believe sexism is the cause of the problem, and not a symptom, then what's the solution? How are you going to get a bunch of straight white males hanging out with other straight white males to stop being racist, homophobic and sexist?

I disagree with you on the chicken-egg thing.

And what industries are heavy-gender-leaning against females? Strippers? Hooter's Waitresses?
Even areas that tend to be very female leaning, like fashion and HR, typically have men at the top. How many female fashion designers can you name off the top of your head? How many males? And there are far more male CHROs (going by different titles everywhere) in Fortune 500 companies than female ones, yet HR is a function typically about 85% female.

NKD, a bunch of straight white males hanging out with other straight white males can stop being racist, homophobic and sexist by growing some empathy. The most common argument is "blah blah blah ME blah blah blah." They need to learn this isn't about them, or how it makes them feel. Sure, maybe they never yelled "hey, nice ass" at a girl walking down the street, but they're certainly enabling it by defending it here and, in the case of some, claiming it's actually something women want because the one time it happened to their wife she enjoyed it.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone else. And not with your own experiences, but imagine going through life as them.
It really helps.

Or, more importantly, expand your interactions. I'm sure you have other hobbies that attracts a more diverse group of people. Have these discussions with them.

Lastly, accept that you may passively be part of a problem without suddenly feeling like part of a witchhunt, getting defense, and digging further into it. Man, some of the comments in this thread are outright ignorant, followed by "and why do people call me ignorant!" Because you're unwilling to learn and see someone else's point of view (not you NKD, others.)
 
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58. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 11:45 PHJF
 
Or maybe the lack of women here has to do with women not being "hardcore" enough to frequent PC gaming-centered, text-heavy news web sites? Sure a lot of women game nowadays but they don't seem to care about them beyond playing them. It takes a pretty geeky geek to show up here posting diatribes about the fall of id Software or the rise of the MOBA.  
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57. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 10:50 NKD
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:26:
Lastly, you guys flame the shit out of those Gaming Tropes & Women videos. Of course no women come here. This site is almost exclusively straight white males (with the occasional netnerd.) Now, is that because only straight white males enjoy video games, or is that because there's something in the culture of video games and proudly on display here that doesn't make other groups feel welcome?

Sexism is a reality of industries with a heavy gender leaning. And like I said earlier, it sounds like a Catch-22, but the solution really is to just market the fuck out of the industry to the female population. The more females there are, the more females will be interested in taking part. And once the gender imbalance starts to level out, you'll see the sexism start to fade away.

In short, sexism doesn't cause the lack of females in the industry, the lack of females in the industry causes the sexism. That imbalance in representation causes females to be considered the "other." and makes it very easy to fall into casual sexism.

We've seen this throughout history. That's just how society works. If you want something, you have to fight for it. If you're sitting around waiting for straight white male sausage fest to stop being sexist, racist, and homophobic, you'll be waiting forever, because it's not going to happen. Put a bunch of similar people together, and very quickly the people who aren't similar become the butt of all the jokes.

If you really believe sexism is the cause of the problem, and not a symptom, then what's the solution? How are you going to get a bunch of straight white males hanging out with other straight white males to stop being racist, homophobic and sexist?
 
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56. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 10:40 Slashman
 
mag wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 05:16:
Have you really never been playing TF2 or something and had the pleasure of listening to the way the guys act on voice chat as soon as they hear a female voice? Same in every other game too. Even if it's just a girly Steam userpic or username or whatever the hell.

What is the inevitable age group of these guys? Because almost everytime I have heard that behaviour, it has come from some stupid teenaged moron who is getting off on internet anonymity and wants to sound cool to all the other pre-teen/teenaged jerks who they play with.

There are game communities that are more mature. Women portrayed in these types of articles, however, inevitably end up gravitating toward the places where that type of immature behaviour is at its peak. Because hey...if it isn't the Xbrat Live CoD community, it's not gaming.

I will totally buy that most of the ladies really just aren't into shooters and whatnot. But if you witness what happens to the ones that are into them? Holy shit. I would not doubt that the 'community' scares the vast majority of them either away from it entirely, or into hiding.

Quite honestly, if you want to eliminate that type of behaviour entirely, you're going to have to start making parents into better people who are more involved in their kids lives and can teach them some basic manners and respect. Good luck to you on that.

There isn't a town, neighbourhood or community that doesn't have its share of asshats. Just like it's unlikely you'll find a completely pristine internet gaming community. That doesn't mean there aren't decent gaming groups a woman could join if she wanted to look for them. I have just not seen many women who are interested in doing so apart from women who play MMOs.

 
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55. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 10:26 Beamer
 
Slashman wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 03:48:
mag wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 01:58:
You're talking to the guys that think they're just complimenting women when they yell "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "WILL YOU GO OUT WITH ME" when they meet them in a game. Or see them on youtube. Or pretty much anywhere that doesn't require them to actually talk to girls face-to-face. I think this is going to be lost on them.

Stereotype much?

Seriously. Why is it that people can't make a point or counterpoint without this immature 'You live in your mom's basement so no wonder you'd think that' crap?

So I guess my question is: Where are all the droves of gaming females we're offending in this industry?


So you're annoyed that he's stereotyping you while defending an entire industry stereotyping women?

And people don't let you make counterpoints here because you're defending something indefensible just because it's status quo and you're used to it. I mean, hell, half the responses to something like this are "target audience." Some posters here hate a corporation doing anything to make more money, unless it's against women, then it's just a smart corporation appealing to its target audience.

Lastly, you guys flame the shit out of those Gaming Tropes & Women videos. Of course no women come here. This site is almost exclusively straight white males (with the occasional netnerd.) Now, is that because only straight white males enjoy video games, or is that because there's something in the culture of video games and proudly on display here that doesn't make other groups feel welcome?
 
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54. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 10:05 PHJF
 
If one needs to hire scantily clad women to attract people to one's booth at E3, maybe one should consider bringing a better product to E3?  
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53. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 09:55 Mr. Tact
 
This what I want to know: Does it work? ie.. is there any evidence having booth babes increases sales of your product. Pretty tough to prove one way or the other I imagine. I doubt booth babes impact sales, but I suspect having game characters in that vein probably does... sadly.  
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52. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 08:33 RollinThundr
 
Rattlehead wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 00:26:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 23:15:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:55:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 16, 2013, 22:42:

I think the real issue is most women just aren't interested in building video games in the first place. The idea that there's all these millions of women who are playing console and PC games is just not reality.

So it makes sense that it would be a male dominated industry.
It does limit the recruiting pool significantly. You have to start getting them interested young. You first have to be interested in games before you can be interested in making them. The reason there are so few women in the games industry is because there are social stigmas that say women can't be serious gamers. You have to attract girls to gaming to get them out of their shell of conformity to societal norms. Look at male nurses, still fairly rare because of some macho pre-conceptions that it's a girls job, but they are making strides in that area by showing male nurses on TV shows etc.

Painting sexism as the bogeyman doesn't work because by the time a girl even has the social awareness to really see sexism, it's too late. If she's already interested in games, some perceived sexism isn't going to stop her from pursuing her dream. If she isn't interested, then it doesn't matter, you're not going to get her now, she's already got other dreams.

Which is why I find calling the game industry sexist because of a few booth babes at E3 so god damn ridiculous. Women generally don't get into techy games shit, that's just how it is. Yet we're now hearing these loud voices from a vocal minority of feminist who paint such a bullshit sob story. Anyone with half a brain can see through it. The ones who do fall for this shit generally fall into the PC/Thought police crowd to begin with, beating their little war drum for their socially created war on women that doesn't really exist.
You know it was a male who wrote the article right? My god you're dense! Try actually clicking the link before mouthing off! Unless one male suddenly represents a minority of feminists...

In fact, it seems men are more offended by sexism then women, which I find weird.

Yep and there's been many articles lately from feminists on the same topic. It doesn't change my stance. This is another invented social issue to deflect from actual serious issues like the deficit.
 
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51. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 05:16 mag
 
Slashman wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 03:48:
mag wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 01:58:
You're talking to the guys that think they're just complimenting women when they yell "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "WILL YOU GO OUT WITH ME" when they meet them in a game. Or see them on youtube. Or pretty much anywhere that doesn't require them to actually talk to girls face-to-face. I think this is going to be lost on them.

Stereotype much?

Seriously. Why is it that people can't make a point or counterpoint without this immature 'You live in your mom's basement so no wonder you'd think that' crap?

I don't think the issue is as widespread and all-encompassing as some people make it out to be. Personally I don't think booth babes add much to E3. The women who do it don't really care about gaming. They care about getting paid. It's kind of a relic from the past that game companies hold onto because it's familiar I guess.

That said, I still don't buy into there being all these untold millions of female gamers just itching to get into the industry and play the same sorts of games traditionally played by males, only all the sexism is preventing them from doing so.

Considering that I've spent years fixing PCs and all the ones I've fixed for countless males and females alike, I can't name the last time I found anything resembling a hardcore RTS, shooter or RPG on a PC owned by a female. I've found plenty of Sims installations. I've found plenty of pointless casual games like Luxor, Bejeweled and Bubble Witch. But pretty much nothing in the realms of games that guys usually play.

So I guess my question is: Where are all the droves of gaming females we're offending in this industry?


Have you really never been playing TF2 or something and had the pleasure of listening to the way the guys act on voice chat as soon as they hear a female voice? Same in every other game too. Even if it's just a girly Steam userpic or username or whatever the hell.

I will totally buy that most of the ladies really just aren't into shooters and whatnot. But if you witness what happens to the ones that are into them? Holy shit. I would not doubt that the 'community' scares the vast majority of them either away from it entirely, or into hiding.
 
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50. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 04:33 finga
 
Telling the privileged that they've gotta stop enforcing and so blatantly enjoying it to the detriment of others ... well, it rarely goes well. They don't even know the privilege exists because they've never experienced life without it.

Even just recognizing that this happens, for some, is a hard lesson to learn that comes from being messily forced to see a new perspective. And not all people get that kind of shake-up - or at least, not until it's too late.
 
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49. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 04:03 netnerd85
 
"I like female characters because they can be very strong and very tough, but they can cry and be very sensitive. They have a palette of emotions that's much wider than with male characters."

That's the most sexist comment I have ever read.

Let's go back to the 1960's. James Bond. The most manly of men? falls in love, marries, wife dies, cries. Last year. M dies. Bond cries.

I am so tired of this sexist BULLSHIT.
 
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48. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 03:59 InBlack
 
A 48. post thread about a non issue. Booth Babes get paid to look sexy at shows. Now read that sentence again. Booth Babes get PAID to look sexy at shows. How is this sexism??  
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47. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 03:48 Slashman
 
mag wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 01:58:
You're talking to the guys that think they're just complimenting women when they yell "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "WILL YOU GO OUT WITH ME" when they meet them in a game. Or see them on youtube. Or pretty much anywhere that doesn't require them to actually talk to girls face-to-face. I think this is going to be lost on them.

Stereotype much?

Seriously. Why is it that people can't make a point or counterpoint without this immature 'You live in your mom's basement so no wonder you'd think that' crap?

I don't think the issue is as widespread and all-encompassing as some people make it out to be. Personally I don't think booth babes add much to E3. The women who do it don't really care about gaming. They care about getting paid. It's kind of a relic from the past that game companies hold onto because it's familiar I guess.

That said, I still don't buy into there being all these untold millions of female gamers just itching to get into the industry and play the same sorts of games traditionally played by males, only all the sexism is preventing them from doing so.

Considering that I've spent years fixing PCs and all the ones I've fixed for countless males and females alike, I can't name the last time I found anything resembling a hardcore RTS, shooter or RPG on a PC owned by a female. I've found plenty of Sims installations. I've found plenty of pointless casual games like Luxor, Bejeweled and Bubble Witch. But pretty much nothing in the realms of games that guys usually play.

So I guess my question is: Where are all the droves of gaming females we're offending in this industry?

 
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46. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 02:56 Flatline
 
To an extent, E3 does still have a sexist objectification of women. It's not as bad as it used to be, where you'd get hooker ads and phone sex cards handed out to you on the floor and there was more T&A than at a strip club.

But hiring a set of tits to show off so that horny nerds come in to pay attention to your game is derogatory to all parties involved.

To the con-goer it's insulting because it says "hurr durr you need titties to make you focus on a product for more than 8 seconds".

For the woman it's "show off more cleavage, don't forget to smile, and if a guy starts grabbing at you just... kind of shoo him away. While smiling. And keep him interested in the game."

For the people developing the game it's "our game is such shit it can't compete on the trade show floor. So HERE'S SOME TITTIES!"

It's better than it used to be though. Poor girls running around in lingerie and bikinis being groped by fat sweaty nerds who sprint from one booth babe to the next getting their picture taken because it's the closest to a hot girl they'll ever get without paying 500 an hour. It was rather disgusting.

Thing of it is, what is lost if the booth babes went away? Nothing substantial. As people like to point out, PAX is booming, and it has a no booth babes policy.

I don't see why people are losing their shit over this. Unless you're the type of introvert that relies on booth babes for exposure to the female half of the species.
 
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45. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 01:58 mag
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 01:53:
I'm not politically correct by any means but denying that there's any sexism in the games industry seems to ignore reality. We've all seen what happens when a semi-attractive woman plays a prominent role in a game's marketing (Jade Raymond with Assassin's Creed). We've all heard what happens when a female gamer uses voice chat in a multiplayer game. We've all seen the role that women play at gaming conventions. We've all seen the ridiculously sexualized outfits women wear in games (Asian games are particularly egregious in this regard). Hell, take a look at the box art for the premium edition of Killer Is Dead, a game which has minigames where you're rewarded for staring at a woman's breasts and crotch: Killer Is Dead back cover art. Even a journalist can stir up controversy by simply being a semi-attractive female (RPS).

If you really think that none of this deters women from becoming gamers or joining the gaming industry, you're just being dense. If you don't care about the issue, that's fine. I'm apathetic about many things as well. But you can't deny that the issue exists.

You're talking to the guys that think they're just complimenting women when they yell "SHOW US YOUR TITS" and "WILL YOU GO OUT WITH ME" when they meet them in a game. Or see them on youtube. Or pretty much anywhere that doesn't require them to actually talk to girls face-to-face. I think this is going to be lost on them.
 
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44. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 01:53 Jerykk
 
I'm not politically correct by any means but denying that there's any sexism in the games industry seems to ignore reality. We've all seen what happens when a semi-attractive woman plays a prominent role in a game's marketing (Jade Raymond with Assassin's Creed). We've all heard what happens when a female gamer uses voice chat in a multiplayer game. We've all seen the role that women play at gaming conventions. We've all seen the ridiculously sexualized outfits women wear in games (Asian games are particularly egregious in this regard). Hell, take a look at the box art for the premium edition of Killer Is Dead, a game which has minigames where you're rewarded for staring at a woman's breasts and crotch: Killer Is Dead back cover art. Even a journalist can stir up controversy by simply being a semi-attractive female (RPS).

If you really think that none of this deters women from becoming gamers or joining the gaming industry, you're just being dense. If you don't care about the issue, that's fine. I'm apathetic about many things as well. But you can't deny that the issue exists.
 
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43. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 01:01 LittleMe
 
Rattlehead wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 00:26:
it seems men are more offended by sexism then women, which I find weird.

Might be true. After all we're the ones being labeled, attacked and shamed for it. Primal instincts are taboo? We're in the age of body denial. Reminders that we're animals and/or mortal is shunned and hidden away.

I feel that as long as their dignity is in tact and they are honored then all is good. You can know this anti-sexist movement is wrong when they take it too seriously. Acceptance is the path to enlightenment.

Sperm is cheap. That's the problem right there! A woman wants one man to help in child rearing but a man can impregnate many, many women. xD So we look at every pretty woman as possible breeding material (I speak for myself). This offends some women to be looked at so superficially.

 
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42. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 00:49 Agent.X7
 
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz*snark* Wha? Oh, yeah, all sexist and racist and gay haters, mmm, got it....Zzzzzzzzzzzzz  
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41. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 00:35 Dev
 
a) Those indie consoles and devs aren't nearly enough to sink e3
b) Next month... in VALVE TIME.
 
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