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It Came from E3 2013, Part Six

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100 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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100. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 23, 2013, 12:17 JohnnyRotten
 
Oh, and to post something related to the topic:

IMHO, this issue exists in the society, not just in the microcosm of the gaming industry. The situation is the same in both. There is no special pleading to make here about defining this as a unique "problem" with special "solutions" specifically for this industry.

Therefore (again IMHO), if/when society as a whole sees a value in change and makes that change, the gaming industry will come along as well. The article is just troll/hit bait along the old the "will someone please think of the children" lines.


TL;DNR: Saying that this one small corner of society is doing a "bad" thing while ignoring or minimizing that the same happens in society as whole is just trolling for hits, fan boys, concern trolls, etc.

This comment was edited on Jun 23, 2013, 12:26.
 
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99. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 23, 2013, 12:07 JohnnyRotten
 
Verno wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:07:
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:30:
Interestingly, he's the only person on my ignore list. While we have a lot of stupidity and shills around here, most of them are more than willing to have a civilized if pointless and one-sided debate.


He's the only one on mine too. He is so deluded by his self-perceived superiority to such an extent that any deviation from his stated position puts you squarely in the category of the very villainy that he is raiiling against. Having an opposing opinion to his "perfect" one is akin to a crime.

I've had Beamer on ignore for just about a year and can honestly say it made the forums much more pleasurable to read. The key is to not take the bait when he trolls you which you still see if someone quotes it. Thankfully I see fewer and fewer people quoting him which is nice, appears that others are finding the same thing. Right now my list is basically him, Thundr and that weirdo EA PR flunkie.

I used to enjoy a certain sense of schadenfreude watching him dance after pointing out the obvious holes in his wall-o-text trolls. It also used to be fun calling out his endless fallacious appeals to authority Vis--vis his "I'm claiming that I've been in a thousand careers and thus will speak with as the sole and absolute expert on everything", but it isn't as fun as it used to be.

His buttons are too easy to press and the responses are just the same regurgitations now (which basically boils down to endless posts on his absolute certainty on how 100% right he his).

Troll baiting with him isn't as fun as it used to be. Maybe I should stop...
 
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98. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 18, 2013, 13:29 avianflu
 
Beamer has made lots of great insights on gaming and games here. Not sure he deserves to be blocked, but of course that's a choice.  
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97. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 18, 2013, 08:36 InBlack
 
Holy shit this non-issue thread is still going strong? How can there even be a reasonable discussion of sexism when you have the likes of Kim Kardashian, Lady Gaga, and nearly every single other female celebrity in between selling their sex appeal to the (mostly male) masses?

Please dont confuse chauvinism and sexism, sexsim will ALWAYS be present in a male dominated society, as long as males see sexuality as the driving attraction towards members of the opposite sex, putting women on a pedestal is whats going to happen. Worry not, there will always be women around who will take advantage of that to pair off with powerful men to gain fame/stats/money/power. As long as that is happening (and it will as long as we have a male dominated society) sexism is a non issue.
 
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96. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 20:09 Slashman
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:51:
Most women that are "bothering" are picking bigger, more vital fights than video games.

Bingo!

And even Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King needed white allies to actually listen to them rather than criticize them on a messageboard.

So you're being the 'white ally' needed by all the non-existent, oppressed female gamers who haven't really spoken about the issue because white, male journalists are primarily the ones posting these stories. Well I guess it's good you found a cause and purpose.
 
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95. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 19:49 Prez
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 18:51:
Katie show just gave a "Best Ab's" award, the almost all female audience just swooned. Same shit.

See ya all next year to continue the same conversation.

Next year? With gaming journalists so desperate for attention and sexism in gaming being the popular go-to website hits-grabber of late I expect another round of this nonsense within a couple of days, a week at the outside.

I almost miss the days when homophobia was the go-to theme of choice.
 
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94. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 18:51 HorrorScope
 
Katie show just gave a "Best Ab's" award, the almost all female audience just swooned. Same shit.

See ya all next year to continue the same conversation.
 
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93. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 17:44 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:57:
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:36:
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:30:

He's the only one on mine too. He is so deluded by his self-perceived superiority to such an extent that any deviation from his stated position puts you squarely in the category of the very villainy that he is raiiling against. Having an opposing opinion to his "perfect" one is akin to a crime.


Shit, I wasnt even opposing his opinion! We seemed to agree that there was an issue that needed solving, and I put forth the solution that worked in the past for other people, and suddenly I'm eating babies and raping women.

But you weren't agreeing there was a problem. You were focusing on the people opposed to sexism as the problem.

You were basically arguing "status quo" and saying only women can help themselves. Screw that notion. When you see something unfair you should speak up. You shouldn't just assume that the people being screwed over should be the only ones speaking up. And you shouldn't assume those speaking up for them are "white knighting."

Again, is Warren Buffet a white knight to the middle class when he writes an editorial about how unfair our tax code is? No. People don't use that stupid, sexist terminology. Not only do you use it, but you claim the ones you use it at are sexist.

It's backwards thinking.

Warren Buffet owes millions in backtaxes btw or rather one of his companies does. When he pays thatfirst then can rally on about "unfair" taxes all he likes.
 
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92. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 17:40 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 16:00:
PHJF wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:57:
The "tropes in video games" video was misguided, noneducational, unentertaining nonsense. That's why it didn't get any supporters here. Women in video games ARE one-dimensional, helpess, and completely unrealistically portrayed... but so are men. Damsel in distress permeates every narrative outlet, why would video games be excepted?

This whole (non issue) goes back to basic marketing. The target market for most video games is 15-30 males. Elizabeth wasn't on the cover of Infinite because Ken Levine thought frat boys might buy a BioShock game if it had a gun-wielding dude on the cover. E3 is unequivocally used to sell products, and sex sells, a fact which isn't going to change without hell having frozen over, first. Ergo, boobs at E3.

But men are unrealistically portrayed in a more positive manner.
And it isn't as systematic against men.

Again, part of the issue is men looking at these as attacks and feeling like victims. Men unwilling to look past their own shoes.

I don't feel like a victim, I just feel white knights like you should prolly find better reasons to white knight for the PC/Feminist/Whatever the flavor of the week social issue it is this week, need to find better things to Rah rah rah about.
 
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91. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 17:27 Eirikrautha
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 13:25:
Eirikrautha wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 13:05:
What matters is whether or not our inherent differences might explain the observed results of whatever we are investigating. Despite the decades of promoting STEM careers for women, they still choose those careers way less often than men. Even the "successes" (like the growing number of female engineers) show these differences (when you note that the growth has overwhelmingly been in disciplines like civil engineering... and chemical and mechanical engineering still lags tremendously). Perhaps this may be biological (as men tend to have better 3D visualization skills, but women tend to be better integrators)? Rule that out before you start preaching against the "old boys' club"...

This sounds like the "Blacks are better at some sports, and white people others" argument when the only difference is that blacks play sports that you can get into while being poor, while white people tend to be in rich people sports. There's almost no real science that backs up what you're saying. On the other hand, there's ample science to show that it's almost always social norms, familial pressure and the like that drive people into careers, not natural genetic affinity.

What little actual science sits behind your argument might explain minor differences, but not wholesale inability to perform a task adequately. Every industry where women get a foothold, they tend to do just as well as their male counterparts, if provided equal training and possessing equal dedication.

Your argument is the typical red herring used in just about every discussion on sexism. The number of jobs where males or females can be demonstrated to be better are pretty much limited to physical ones like athletics where differences in muscle mass and bone structure can explain the advantage using simple physics.

Hardly. Brain structures and sex differences are not only well established, but also quite well understood. I'm married to a chemist, and she'll even tell you the struggles she and some of her female compatriots had in college with things like bond angles and compound geometries (and even some of the concepts she and her peers grasped much easier than the male students). Far fewer girls have the natural inclination to tear apart things to see how they work when they are 6, 8 or 10 years old... and that's not due to social pressure. They are just interested in different stuff.

None of this is to say that there aren't some girls who will be natural STEM masters... obviously there are... and they deserve the same chance and treatment as anyone else. But expecting the numbers to be equal is just a fantasy. No matter how much you wish it were so (or how "wrong" the reality is), the reality is inescapable. Men and women are different... and this affects their behaviors and interests.
 
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90. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 17:02 Redmask
 
Why don't you post 30 more times and tell us all about it? We haven't heard enough from you Rolleyes  
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89. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 16:00 Beamer
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:57:
The "tropes in video games" video was misguided, noneducational, unentertaining nonsense. That's why it didn't get any supporters here. Women in video games ARE one-dimensional, helpess, and completely unrealistically portrayed... but so are men. Damsel in distress permeates every narrative outlet, why would video games be excepted?

This whole (non issue) goes back to basic marketing. The target market for most video games is 15-30 males. Elizabeth wasn't on the cover of Infinite because Ken Levine thought frat boys might buy a BioShock game if it had a gun-wielding dude on the cover. E3 is unequivocally used to sell products, and sex sells, a fact which isn't going to change without hell having frozen over, first. Ergo, boobs at E3.

But men are unrealistically portrayed in a more positive manner.
And it isn't as systematic against men.

Again, part of the issue is men looking at these as attacks and feeling like victims. Men unwilling to look past their own shoes.
 
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88. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:57 PHJF
 
The "tropes in video games" video was misguided, noneducational, unentertaining nonsense. That's why it didn't get any supporters here. Women in video games ARE one-dimensional, helpess, and completely unrealistically portrayed... but so are men. Damsel in distress permeates every narrative outlet, why would video games be excepted?

This whole (non issue) goes back to basic marketing. The target market for most video games is 15-30 males. Elizabeth wasn't on the cover of Infinite because Ken Levine thought frat boys might buy a BioShock game if it had a gun-wielding dude on the cover. E3 is unequivocally used to sell products, and sex sells, a fact which isn't going to change without hell having frozen over, first. Ergo, boobs at E3.
 
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87. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:57 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:36:
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:30:

He's the only one on mine too. He is so deluded by his self-perceived superiority to such an extent that any deviation from his stated position puts you squarely in the category of the very villainy that he is raiiling against. Having an opposing opinion to his "perfect" one is akin to a crime.


Shit, I wasnt even opposing his opinion! We seemed to agree that there was an issue that needed solving, and I put forth the solution that worked in the past for other people, and suddenly I'm eating babies and raping women.

But you weren't agreeing there was a problem. You were focusing on the people opposed to sexism as the problem.

You were basically arguing "status quo" and saying only women can help themselves. Screw that notion. When you see something unfair you should speak up. You shouldn't just assume that the people being screwed over should be the only ones speaking up. And you shouldn't assume those speaking up for them are "white knighting."

Again, is Warren Buffet a white knight to the middle class when he writes an editorial about how unfair our tax code is? No. People don't use that stupid, sexist terminology. Not only do you use it, but you claim the ones you use it at are sexist.

It's backwards thinking.
 
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86. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:52 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:15:
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:08:
Over 70 posts on a dead horse non issue. Jesus why doesn't everyone just ignore Beamer? He accuses everyone on this site of basically every crime against humanity. He is a fucking troll. Just one that writes in walls of text and likes to club you over the head with his arrogance.

Edit: Very wise choice NKD. He is an absolute waste of skin.

Interestingly, he's the only person on my ignore list. While we have a lot of stupidity and shills around here, most of them are more than willing to have a civilized if pointless and one-sided debate.

Beamer meanwhile basically accuses me of being Hitler when I challenge him to provide a solution to the problem.

When did I accuse you of being Hitler? I said your attitude of "white knighting" blows and is awful.

The ones accusing people of being Hitler are the ones using "feminazi," which I haven't seen in this thread but I've seen in plenty of others.
 
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85. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:51 Beamer
 
Slashman wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:34:
Right...because Rosa Parks never bothered. Martin Luther King Junior never bothered. All the black civil rights leaders and the countless people who stood with them. Guess they couldn't stand having their feelings hurt so they did nothing. Just sat around waiting for all the white folks to realize how unfairly they were being treated and to change the system for them. No black people bled or died to make a change for the betterment of their lives and their children's lives.

Most women that are "bothering" are picking bigger, more vital fights than video games.

And even Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King needed white allies to actually listen to them rather than criticize them on a messageboard.
 
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84. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:50 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:06:
"You don't agree with me therefore you are RollinThundr and are trolling!"

You know what Beamer? Fuck you, fuck your family, and the fuck the 13 generations of your ancestors.

I try to have a god damn civilized debate, and then you compare me to ROLLINTHUNDR of all people, some god damn right wing lunatic fucktard probably from Texas?

Seriously, eat a bag of dicks and choke to death on them. Welcome to ignore.

You are using "white knighting." That is trolling. You're accusing those that see a problem and want to fix it as being sexist.

That's no different than the crap RollinThundr says.
 
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83. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:17 RollinThundr
 
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:22:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:16:
NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:06:
"You don't agree with me therefore you are RollinThundr and are trolling!"

You know what Beamer? Fuck you, fuck your family, and the fuck the 13 generations of your ancestors.

I try to have a god damn civilized debate, and then you compare me to ROLLINTHUNDR of all people, some god damn right wing lunatic fucktard probably from Texas?

Seriously, eat a bag of dicks and choke to death on them. Welcome to ignore.

Actually I'm from Mass, the liberal bastion of the northeast, where the taxes and cost of living are high, the health care is even higher, thanks to Romneycare, Thanks Mittens! And I'd honestly consider myself more libertarian except when it comes to spending.

When you're knee deep in liberal policy you see how destructive it is. Look at Chicago or Detroit or DC for the perfect example of how NOT to do it.


You should try out west coast liberals, we have a much nicer time. And more weed.

Haha willing to share the bud, you can't be all that bad.
 
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82. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 15:07 Verno
 
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:30:
Interestingly, he's the only person on my ignore list. While we have a lot of stupidity and shills around here, most of them are more than willing to have a civilized if pointless and one-sided debate.


He's the only one on mine too. He is so deluded by his self-perceived superiority to such an extent that any deviation from his stated position puts you squarely in the category of the very villainy that he is raiiling against. Having an opposing opinion to his "perfect" one is akin to a crime.

I've had Beamer on ignore for just about a year and can honestly say it made the forums much more pleasurable to read. The key is to not take the bait when he trolls you which you still see if someone quotes it. Thankfully I see fewer and fewer people quoting him which is nice, appears that others are finding the same thing. Right now my list is basically him, Thundr and that weirdo EA PR flunkie.
 
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81. Re: It Came from E3 2013, Part Six Jun 17, 2013, 14:36 NKD
 
Prez wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:30:

He's the only one on mine too. He is so deluded by his self-perceived superiority to such an extent that any deviation from his stated position puts you squarely in the category of the very villainy that he is raiiling against. Having an opposing opinion to his "perfect" one is akin to a crime.


Shit, I wasnt even opposing his opinion! We seemed to agree that there was an issue that needed solving, and I put forth the solution that worked in the past for other people, and suddenly I'm eating babies and raping women.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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