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Morning Consolidation

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58 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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18. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 13:50 jdreyer
 
nin wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 10:09:
The Xbox One & PS4 Have Officially Killed The Old-Fashioned CRT TV.

As I told Blue, I discovered I get to buy a new tv this fall, as my old LCD tv doesn't have HDMI. Thankfully prices have dropped considerably in the 10 or so years since I got this one...


Here's a suggestion.

 
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17. Re: Microsoft defends the Xbox licensing Jun 12, 2013, 13:42 jdreyer
 
What Creston said (again).

Also, when people are making a $500 purchase, they actually do the research. They do look at the details. And MS's product is looking pretty craptasic compared to the competition.
 
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16. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 13:24 Verno
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 13:06:
So, MS. Yeah. Keep talking dumbasses. They really think that somebody who doesn't have broadband access but wants to game is going to go with a 360 instead of a PS4? Derp.

I have a small store in a small town. You have no idea the number of people that came in this week to trade in a 360 for a PS3. The general attitude was "fuck MS, they don't want me as a customer anyway."

This is before the One even launches. I really think they may have screwed themselves.

I hope that's true but Microsoft has the kind of money to buy absurd amounts of marketing that Sony and Nintendo won't be able to afford. They can probably buy their way into a sizeable install base with no problem and there are many people who just love the Xbox brand and will buy it no matter what. It's just a question of whether they will want the expense or not, I know shareholders don't like the "low" 10-15% margins of the console business compared to their traditional 60% margins on the software and services side. Ballmer seems intent on completing his weirdo late 90s media living room obsession though so who knows, they've tied all of their various failures together and are dragging poor Windows along for the ride.
 
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15. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 13:06 Agent.X7
 
So, MS. Yeah. Keep talking dumbasses. They really think that somebody who doesn't have broadband access but wants to game is going to go with a 360 instead of a PS4? Derp.

I have a small store in a small town. You have no idea the number of people that came in this week to trade in a 360 for a PS3. The general attitude was "fuck MS, they don't want me as a customer anyway."

This is before the One even launches. I really think they may have screwed themselves.
 
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 13:00 Verno
 
Golwar wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 12:37:
But what you "confirmed" isn't about what interested me. Kotaku made it a big issue that MS somewhere mentioned that a game can only be lend once. Their biased interpretation was that you can only lend it once and then never again.

Kotaku isn't exactly a bastion of quality journalism but Microsoft itself doesn't even know its own policies right now, let alone anyone else, so I can give them a pass for getting it wrong or being told something incorrect.

I don't mind at all that discs are just other ways to activate your games digitally and pass the download process. That's similar to Steam. I wouldn't even mind a fee for used games, as long as you can sell them. I have a stance on that topic that is quite similar to TotalBiscuit and Cliff Bleszinski. And as mentioned, if they'd allow to lend your digital owned games too (without the requirement of a owning a disc), that would be even better than anything that their competition offers. It's indeed sad that MS failed to communicate their ideas better. For that at least, they deserve to be punished.

I mind when it's pointless and doesn't really offer me any tangible benefits I can't get from their competitor who has less hoops to jump through. As for used games I rarely ever sell games, it's just the hubris of being told what to do and asked to pay extra money for something that is giving you less than its predecessor, let alone the competition. I doubt even Microsoft knows what its doing about digital games right now and Sony has already made serious inroads into that market, beating Microsoft to the punch with day 1 digital and allowing consumers to have multiple PS3s auth'd to their PSN content.

I think it's much easier for Sony to progress eventually to the kind of market that we see in Steam, their approach is taking several different demographics into account and not just trying to force everyone to adopt something arbitrary. A few years goes by, retail continues to wane and digital picks up then they can implement a reasonable middle ground, they already have the framework for it anyway. Microsofts approach is really heavy handed and much harder to back peddle on when its implemented. I'd like to see them back off and rethink some things now before launch but Microsoft isn't exactly known for pre-launch wisdom or listening to feedback these days.

This comment was edited on Jun 12, 2013, 13:05.
 
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13. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 12:37 Golwar
 
Verno wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 12:15:
To be honest, I think that MS is largely misjudged about the used games part. And I say that as someone who plays on PC, Sony and Nintendo but not Xbox.

Has it been confirmed that the "only once" part means that you can only lend or sell a game once and then never again? If not, it probably just means that you can only lend it to one person at a time. And that'd be just normal.

And if MS allows not only disc based games but also digital purchases to be lend or resold, then they are actually doing it better than Steam, Sony and Nintendo. I would certainly welcome the option to lend or sell my digital games. I'd probably switch even more to digital in that case.

Yes it's been confirmed, the discs are just an install method now. You also can't really lend games as we traditionally think of it, there are several restrictive policies in the process which make it cumbersome and you can only "give" a game away once to a person who must be on your friends list for 30 days. Microsoft's own statements are also contradictory and they still haven't fully spelled out how resale is going to work, if at all. Several things are "we're working on it and it wont be ready for launch" which is again stupid. Microsoft made the mistake of making their approach both confusing and unappealing, it doesn't really benefit anyone except them and EA.

They try to trump up the Steam-like feature of having your games anywhere but that's not how people play console games, they're a whole different market than the PC demo. I don't go over to my buddys place and we spend 4 hours redownloading a game to play it, I just bring the disc because that's easier.

The whole thing is totally unnecessary, the market can progress on its own and was already doing so, it didn't need Microsoft to try to dictate the terms (which are absurd).

No question, MS managed the worst PR desaster in this industry ever.

But what you "confirmed" isn't about what interested me. Kotaku made it a big issue that MS somewhere mentioned that a game can only be lend once. Their biased interpretation was that you can only lend it once and then never again.

I don't mind at all that discs are just other ways to activate your games digitally and pass the download process. That's similar to Steam.
I wouldn't even mind a fee for used games, as long as you can sell them. I have a stance on that topic that is quite similar to TotalBiscuit and Cliff Bleszinski. Sorry

And as mentioned, if they'd allow to lend your digital owned games too (without the requirement of a owning a disc), that would be even better than anything that their competition offers. It's indeed sad that MS failed to communicate their ideas better. For that at least, they deserve to be punished.
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 12:15 Verno
 
To be honest, I think that MS is largely misjudged about the used games part. And I say that as someone who plays on PC, Sony and Nintendo but not Xbox.

Has it been confirmed that the "only once" part means that you can only lend or sell a game once and then never again? If not, it probably just means that you can only lend it to one person at a time. And that'd be just normal.

And if MS allows not only disc based games but also digital purchases to be lend or resold, then they are actually doing it better than Steam, Sony and Nintendo. I would certainly welcome the option to lend or sell my digital games. I'd probably switch even more to digital in that case.

Yes it's been confirmed, the discs are just an install method now. You also can't really lend games as we traditionally think of it, there are several restrictive policies in the process which make it cumbersome and you can only "give" a game away once to a person who must be on your friends list for 30 days. Microsoft's own statements are also contradictory and they still haven't fully spelled out how resale is going to work, if at all. Several things are "we're working on it and it wont be ready for launch" which is again stupid. Microsoft made the mistake of making their approach both confusing and unappealing, it doesn't really benefit anyone except them and EA.

They try to trump up the Steam-like feature of having your games anywhere but that's not how people play console games, they're a whole different market than the PC demo. I don't go over to my buddys place and we spend 4 hours redownloading a game to play it, I just bring the disc because that's easier.

The whole thing is totally unnecessary, the market can progress on its own and was already doing so, it didn't need Microsoft to try to dictate the terms (which are absurd).
 
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11. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 12:10 Verno
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 11:14:
He mentions going all digital in the interview and maybe have digital rental places to rent games, etc.
This is all good but I am not sure the console crowd is ready for that yet?

It's just bullshit PR trash. None of that stuff is likely to happen and certainly none of it is on the books for the consoles launch. They're just trying to "message" the problem to death when its a problem with the underlying design and their philosophy.

This guy said it best:

The grand folly of all of Microsoft's self-destructive posturing here is that games are moving towards being digital-only anyway. If they'd just given it another hardware generation, disc-based games would almost be a thing of the past. If Microsoft really want to kill rentals, pre-owned games and trading, then all they had to do was wait for the old business model to die of natural causes, aided by their erstwhile rivals, Sony, who seem to be adopting a Valve-esque outlook on pricing and sales.

Instead, they tried to drag a perfectly healthy (if slightly greying) games industry out back and blow its head off with a shotgun, missed completely and shot themselves in the foot.

PC gaming has transitioned to being almost exclusively digital not because any one company forced it to, but because the perks gradually outweighed the cons, and people transferred over naturally. Yes, you can't buy second-hand PC games anymore, but you can get a AAA title for under £10 just a year after launch. You can buy from a huge range of digital stores, and most of them do not have always-on DRM. Hell, some don't have any DRM at all.

It's kinda impressive that MS have managed to misjudge their own market so badly that they've turned a victory-by-default into a massive PR failure that will probably haunt them for years.
 
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10. Microsoft defends the Xbox licensing Jun 12, 2013, 11:16 Creston
 
That right there is a marketoid/salesman trying to sell you a big steaming plate of shit, and telling you that you'll get used to it if you try it.

The reaction wasn't a surprise to Mehdi, though. In fact, he said a lot of the way people have responded to Microsoft's moves was "kind of as we expected."

Pure, utter bullshit. Damage control in its ultimate form. They've been backscrabbling like crazy since their initial reveal, and even now they're not flat-out stating how something will work because they have to try and find the sweet spot where the most people will swallow their BS.

Mehdi made a comparison to the world of home movie viewing, where inconvenient trips to Blockbuster Video have been replaced with Netflix streaming on practically any device instantly

Marketing 101. Take a random fact, then pretend that it somehow applies to your own situation. The reason Netflix murdered Blockbuster is because it was cheaper, easier and had FEWER restrictions.

In Microsoft's case, it's more expensive, (I'll leave easier in the middle,) and it suffers from a fucking truckload more restrictions.

Instead, it was trying to balance the needs of its four main "constituents," including the consumer (who comes "first and foremost" he said), game publishers, retailers, and Microsoft itself as a company.

Wrong order. Correct order: Microsoft, Publishers, Retailers, then consumers last.

In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."

And there's the doozy. "We know lots of people don't pay attention and will buy the new console, and we can just sneak this shit in there without them ever really knowing."

Fuck Yusuf Mehdi.

Creston

 
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9. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 11:14 SpectralMeat
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 10:30:
Verno wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 09:53:
"This is a big change, consumers don't always love change, and there's a lot of education we have to provide to make sure that people understand."

Holy shit are they retarded? Yeah, the issue is that the consumer just needs to be "educated" in your shitty policies that they don't like, not just that they suck and need to be changed. This is really code for "we haven't had time to deceive them with marketing yet".

Between this and the "buy a 360" thing the inmates are running the asylum over there.

If they had valid reasons and tried to educate us I think it would be much better.
The bigger problem is that they kind of whipped some of this out as features, and softly mentioned others reluctantly in interviews, and never once explained it. They just said, "it's here, you should like it!" without explaining why.

Consumers aren't always jerks to changes that aren't immediately better for them if it can be shown that, long term, there's good there.
No one is even trying that. Instead it's... really bad communication. If you can't communicate it, don't do it.

He mentions going all digital in the interview and maybe have digital rental places to rent games, etc.
This is all good but I am not sure the console crowd is ready for that yet?
This is all PC gaming territory now with the digital distribution and I guess Microsoft looked at Steam and how successful they are and made their own version.
The only one thing they kind of forgot is what made Steam so successful.
Hint: Not the always online requirements!
 
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8. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 11:11 NegaDeath
 
Verno wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 11:07:
Man that Smash Bros Mega Man trailer has me actually wanting a Wii U, I wish they had dropped the price.

Yes that pressed all sorts of nostalgic buttons. Now they just need to get a Belmont in there.
 
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7. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 11:10 Golwar
 
To be honest, I think that MS is largely misjudged about the used games part. And I say that as someone who plays on PC, Sony and Nintendo but not Xbox.

Has it been confirmed that the "only once" part means that you can only lend or sell a game once and then never again? If not, it probably just means that you can only lend it to one person at a time. And that'd be just normal.

And if MS allows not only disc based games but also digital purchases to be lend or resold, then they are actually doing it better than Steam, Sony and Nintendo. I would certainly welcome the option to lend or sell my digital games. I'd probably switch even more to digital in that case.
 
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6. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 11:07 Verno
 
Man that Smash Bros Mega Man trailer has me actually wanting a Wii U, I wish they had dropped the price.  
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5. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 10:30 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 09:53:
"This is a big change, consumers don't always love change, and there's a lot of education we have to provide to make sure that people understand."

Holy shit are they retarded? Yeah, the issue is that the consumer just needs to be "educated" in your shitty policies that they don't like, not just that they suck and need to be changed. This is really code for "we haven't had time to deceive them with marketing yet".

Between this and the "buy a 360" thing the inmates are running the asylum over there.

If they had valid reasons and tried to educate us I think it would be much better.
The bigger problem is that they kind of whipped some of this out as features, and softly mentioned others reluctantly in interviews, and never once explained it. They just said, "it's here, you should like it!" without explaining why.

Consumers aren't always jerks to changes that aren't immediately better for them if it can be shown that, long term, there's good there.
No one is even trying that. Instead it's... really bad communication. If you can't communicate it, don't do it.
 
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4. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 10:14 Verno
 
Sony confirmed one PS+ account applies to all accounts on that PS4 for anyone else who has a multi-account household.

Oh and if anyone needed further confirmation that Dead Rising 3 is going to be a big pile of shit:

Capcom is pointedly trying to appeal to a wider audience in this latest iteration, saying it's going after the Call of Duty player. Gone is the cartoonish visual design, replaced by a more "realistic" interpretation of a viral apocalypse. That change is part of the maturation. By shifting the art style, the combat can be "more visceral" than in previous versions, with "real gore."

Awesome because we don't have enough "realistic" zombie games out there. The zany humor and crazy mechanics were what made Dead Rising interesting in the first place.

This comment was edited on Jun 12, 2013, 11:06.
 
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3. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 10:09 nin
 
The Xbox One & PS4 Have Officially Killed The Old-Fashioned CRT TV.

As I told Blue, I discovered I get to buy a new tv this fall, as my old LCD tv doesn't have HDMI. Thankfully prices have dropped considerably in the 10 or so years since I got this one...

 
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2. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 10:07 wtf_man
 
Sorry, I'm not asking permission every 24 hours if I can play my game, I'm not paying a fee to use a netflix app, and I don't want Kinnect at all... ever.

/shrug
 
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1. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 09:53 Verno
 
"This is a big change, consumers don't always love change, and there's a lot of education we have to provide to make sure that people understand."

Holy shit are they retarded? Yeah, the issue is that the consumer just needs to be "educated" in your shitty policies that they don't like, not just that they suck and need to be changed. This is really code for "we haven't had time to deceive them with marketing yet".

Between this and the "buy a 360" thing the inmates are running the asylum over there.
 
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58 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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