Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Morning Tech Bits

View
55 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >

55. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 6, 2013, 11:50 Verno
 
Enahs wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 13:22:
You do not need to learn keyboard shortcuts!!! You have the Windows Key in nearly every keyboard made for the past 18 years!
You just click it and type the name of whatever you want and you are done. That is not memorizing keyboard shortcuts!

Actually to make Metro in the slightest way useful you do need to use the shortcuts. This doesn't prevent it from popping up in full screen, obscuring whatever you were working on though. Also the background desktop shit in 8.1 is just an image, not your actual desktop which makes it kinda pointless.

Microsoft is literally going backward in time with its user interfaces, that's why people don't like Metro.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Alien Isolation, 7 Days to Die, Dragon Age Origins
Watching: The Canal, Brazil, The Town That Dreaded Sundown
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
54. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 2, 2013, 17:07 Ant
 
Bah to W8.x.  
Avatar 1957
 
Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx and Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net ...
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
53. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 2, 2013, 00:52 Drazula
 
noman wrote on May 31, 2013, 15:56:
Drazula wrote on May 31, 2013, 13:20:
Nobody wanted the Start BUTTON, we wanted the Start MENU! Who wants a button to go to the Metro crap?

I don't want the start menu. It was horribly inefficient. Start screen is order of magnitude better than that old menu (which never scaled with resolution or pixel density) The only thing I'd welcome is a search text box that can be brought up in desktop mode, instead of going to start screen and typing blindly.

In any case, it's good that start menu is dead and buried.

8.1 seems to be heading in right direction. The feature I am looking forward to most is the proper desktop scaling on higher resolution monitors. This has never worked properly since the Win95 days. It's about time.

Metro wise, some of the changes seem good. Different tile sizes on start screen, use of desktop background and thus connecting start screen to desktop visually, more than two metro apps at higher resolutions, variable size for docked application etc There's still a long way to go before metro becomes suitable for non-media consumption/gaming uses, but it's interesting to watch where these changes lead to.
Really? Where is the control panel in metro? Where is Recent Items? Meh!!!!
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
52. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 22:36 Redmask
 
Enahs wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 09:40:
The user interface does not have poor discover-ability, that is just silly. Multi-tasking is kind of irrelevant for finding a file, or program, or just searching for something quick and simple.
I.E., you never multitasked on the old start menu, when should you be able to in the new one?

It has practically no discoverability whatsoever, I have no idea what you're talking about. That's why users run into issues when they trigger it accidentally expecting start and don't know what to do. The comment about multitasking wasn't about Metro start, it was about the Metro interface in general. If the user can't make efficient use out of a user interface using user interface elements without hotkeys then that user interface is a failure. You also can't just search for everything, quite often the search results are muddled and you need to manually select the category which is hopefully something they would tweak in 8.1
 
Avatar 57682
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
51. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 18:33 Toad
 
Sadly, my keyboard was made 21 years ago. I can't operate Windows 8 efficiently.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
50. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 17:42 NegaDeath
 
Enahs wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 09:40:
The user interface does not have poor discover-ability, that is just silly.

Nothing silly about that, invisible controls have poor discover-ability.
 
Avatar 57352
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
49. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 13:22 Enahs
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 12:04:
Enahs wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 09:40:
Redmask wrote on May 31, 2013, 23:53:
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
I appreciate that if you like the new start menu in Windows 8 is a personal preference, but you are just wrong!

It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

I appreciate that you like it but you are just wrong. Good luck training regular users to use search for everything because the USER INTERFACE has poor discoverability and can't multitask for shit despite the fact that everything in the past 20 years has been building on those core concepts. Most people could adjust just fine if they wanted to but really, what the fuck is the point when the new interface doesn't really offer any reason to bother? Yes let's go backward in time for no reason to help Microsoft compete with Apple, that sounds worth my time and money.

The user interface does not have poor discover-ability, that is just silly. Multi-tasking is kind of irrelevant for finding a file, or program, or just searching for something quick and simple.
I.E., you never multitasked on the old start menu, when should you be able to in the new one?

You shouldn't have to memorize a bunch of keyboard shortcuts when the old start, pick what you want to run, voila works just fine. Good luck teaching keyboard short cuts to those who are fairly computer illiterate no matter how many times you show them how to do something.


You do not need to learn keyboard shortcuts!!! You have the Windows Key in nearly every keyboard made for the past 18 years!
You just click it and type the name of whatever you want and you are done. That is not memorizing keyboard shortcuts!
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
48. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 12:04 RollinThundr
 
Enahs wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 09:40:
Redmask wrote on May 31, 2013, 23:53:
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
I appreciate that if you like the new start menu in Windows 8 is a personal preference, but you are just wrong!

It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

I appreciate that you like it but you are just wrong. Good luck training regular users to use search for everything because the USER INTERFACE has poor discoverability and can't multitask for shit despite the fact that everything in the past 20 years has been building on those core concepts. Most people could adjust just fine if they wanted to but really, what the fuck is the point when the new interface doesn't really offer any reason to bother? Yes let's go backward in time for no reason to help Microsoft compete with Apple, that sounds worth my time and money.

The user interface does not have poor discover-ability, that is just silly. Multi-tasking is kind of irrelevant for finding a file, or program, or just searching for something quick and simple.
I.E., you never multitasked on the old start menu, when should you be able to in the new one?

You shouldn't have to memorize a bunch of keyboard shortcuts when the old start, pick what you want to run, voila works just fine. Good luck teaching keyboard short cuts to those who are fairly computer illiterate no matter how many times you show them how to do something.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
47. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 09:40 Enahs
 
Redmask wrote on May 31, 2013, 23:53:
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
I appreciate that if you like the new start menu in Windows 8 is a personal preference, but you are just wrong!

It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

I appreciate that you like it but you are just wrong. Good luck training regular users to use search for everything because the USER INTERFACE has poor discoverability and can't multitask for shit despite the fact that everything in the past 20 years has been building on those core concepts. Most people could adjust just fine if they wanted to but really, what the fuck is the point when the new interface doesn't really offer any reason to bother? Yes let's go backward in time for no reason to help Microsoft compete with Apple, that sounds worth my time and money.

The user interface does not have poor discover-ability, that is just silly. Multi-tasking is kind of irrelevant for finding a file, or program, or just searching for something quick and simple.
I.E., you never multitasked on the old start menu, when should you be able to in the new one?
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
46. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 09:39 Enahs
 
Redmask wrote on Jun 1, 2013, 07:55:
There was a lot more wrong with Windows 8 and Metro than just having a new start menu.

No there was not. It improves everything else. MUCH improved memory and overall system efficiency. Better file transfer dialog and info. Far superior task manager with MANY options for power users in it.
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
45. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 09:37 Enahs
 
HorrorScope wrote on May 31, 2013, 23:07:
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

If I want to launch things in the control panel, same way, or files on my computer.

My mom just chimed in with a WTF is Meta? Yes techies could like it, but ahem, most people aren't. But lets not assume you cannot make the old style-desktop deadly efficient + hotkeys. Metro is 70's fugly to boot.

The not to be an ass, which I am, but then your mom and you lack reading comprehension because the first time I said meta key I put the 'windows key' in brackets after it. Because on my linux system the windows key is not the windows key, it is a meta key. And if you guys can not understand something as simple as that, why should we have things designed for you?

Bar none, the meta key + typing a few letters in Windows 8 is far superior in efficiency to older styles, whichever of the older style start menu you prefer.

At least twice a week while working on my system with people in my office will say something along the lines of 'wow, how did you load that so fast' or 'how did you switch to that app so fast', or 'how did you find that file so fast, I did not see you go go my computer c: folder, sub folder, sub folder, etc'.

You can still not like how it looks.
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
44. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 07:55 Redmask
 
There was a lot more wrong with Windows 8 and Metro than just having a new start menu.  
Avatar 57682
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
43. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 1, 2013, 01:29 NKD
 
Maybe it's because I remember a time before the Start button, but am I the only one who never really used it that much? Cascading dropdowns are an intuitive way to organize things, but they are designed to reflect PHYSICAL organizational techniques. Look in binder A, under divider B for Page 6 and there you go. Intuitive indeed, but slow as hell.

WinKey search is instantaneous access to whatever I need, and anything very commonly open or used should be pinned on the taskbar anyway.

Start button was a Grandma Tier feature. Great for people who don't know computers, but it's like wanting training wheels on your bicycle forever.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
42. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:53 Redmask
 
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
I appreciate that if you like the new start menu in Windows 8 is a personal preference, but you are just wrong!

It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

I appreciate that you like it but you are just wrong. Good luck training regular users to use search for everything because the USER INTERFACE has poor discoverability and can't multitask for shit despite the fact that everything in the past 20 years has been building on those core concepts. Most people could adjust just fine if they wanted to but really, what the fuck is the point when the new interface doesn't really offer any reason to bother? Yes let's go backward in time for no reason to help Microsoft compete with Apple, that sounds worth my time and money.
 
Avatar 57682
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
41. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:29 jimnms
 
Orogogus wrote on May 31, 2013, 18:08:
Well, I agree that most people I've met don't know how to use the Start Menu. If I had a nickel for every time I opened an old version of Windows to find the Start Menu filled with crap going past the screen height... In practice I find that the majority of people I know use desktop icons for everything, and the Start Menu is just there to shut down the computer.

I can sort of see how that mess ended up as the W8 interface, especially after all these people were apparently able to manage tablet and smartphone interfaces just fine. But not so great for people who were able to navigate Windows in the first place,

My niece got a notebook for Christmas, and between it and her playing on my computer, the only OS she's ever used has been Windows 7. I set up an old computer for her to play games on here, and at first I put Win7 on it I didn't activate it since you can run it without activating for 30 days, then type a command to reset it. You can do this three times, so you can run it for 120 days before it quits working.

Anyway, the old computer I was using originally had WinXP on it, and there were a few issues it had with Win7. After Win7 stopped working in the demo mode, I put WinXP back on it.

When she first came over after putting WinXP on it, I told her it would be a little different than she was used to because it had and older version of Windows. After using it for a few minutes, she told me that it was easier to use than her notebook. I asked her why, and she told me because all the programs were there when she clicked the start button and she didn't have to scroll to find them or remember what to type.

I can see her point. For someone that's never used Windows, without knowing what to type, having browsing the start menu in Win7 is a bit of a pain with it being restricted to that tiny window vs. WinXP's expanding menu. I can see Windows 8 being even harder to use for a new computer user.
 
Avatar 17277
 
MeanJim on Steam
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
40. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:09 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on May 31, 2013, 23:07:
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

If I want to launch things in the control panel, same way, or files on my computer.

My mom just chimed in with a WTF is Meta? Yes techies could like it, but ahem, most people aren't. But lets not assume you cannot make the old style-desktop deadly efficient + hotkeys. Metro is 70's fugly to boot.

Your mom, assuming she's a hypothetical typical user and not someone right next to you reading your post over your shoulder (you never know on the internet...), almost definitely doesn't use the Start menu and instead has 8000 icons on her desktop. And the only one she probably ever uses is FireFox.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
39. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:09 Beamer
 
I'm not saying that the Metro screen is the solution, as I haven't used it, but the Start menu sucked.

Yeah, in 1998 it was great. Everything then was programs. Today? I use it just to open the control panel and Snip tool. Everything else is basically an icon on my desktop or quick launch. Because most everything is web based, so an icon isn't needed.

Steam put all my games into one icon.
And most everything else I do is on the web.

Yeah, there are occasional things. I hate too many icons, so useless crab like Word or whatever ends up in the Start menu. But, as a whole, it wasn't too great or functional and was ripe to be improved.

Whether they improved it or not is clearly a debate. I have no real desire to find out.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
38. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:07 HorrorScope
 
Enahs wrote on May 31, 2013, 22:03:
It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

If I want to launch things in the control panel, same way, or files on my computer.

My mom just chimed in with a WTF is Meta? Yes techies could like it, but ahem, most people aren't. But lets not assume you cannot make the old style-desktop deadly efficient + hotkeys. Metro is 70's fugly to boot.
 
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
37. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 23:04 HorrorScope
 
Orogogus wrote on May 31, 2013, 20:02:
Fixing the screen height issue only covered up the fact that people weren't using the Start Menu. It's really rare that I see an average user go in there to start a program. Like I said, the only element I've seen most people use is the Shutdown button.

I'll be fair, I/others I've observed don't run app's from there too often, but I sure do from time to time and with it alphabatized, makes it a snap. Now there are many other reasons people use the start menu, devices, admin, control panel etc, I do and I've seen nearly everyone go in there time to time. Not sure this needs to be debated much.

Sure a power user could hotkey run and type in the command. Most people I know do not do that, just the techies.
 
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 22:03 Enahs
 
I appreciate that if you like the new start menu in Windows 8 is a personal preference, but you are just wrong!

It is awesome! Because you have been using the old traditional start menu with your mouse, which is just horrible inefficient!

With my Windows 8, if I want to load up the calculator I hit the meta key on my keyboard (the Windows key), type the letter 'c' and hit enter, boom, done. If I want to load up steam, meta key 'ste' enter.
If I want to load up something like inSSider, which I do not use often, there is no reason to have it pined to my start screen, or at the top of the old start menu, I just hit meta key ins enter. I can actually do that fast enough and hit enter, it does not actually display the search results, it just launches the program.

If I want to launch things in the control panel, same way, or files on my computer.

If I want to search something on the internet, wherever I am, I just hit meta key type what I want to search I just hit meta key type what I want to search the internet for and hit the google results app on the side which loads the results in FireFox for me.


It is far more efficient at finding files, and various things. People are saying it is designed for touch, but it is designed even more for a keyboard! Windows 7 had some of these features, but it was not as fast, versatile, and robust as the Windows 8. Far superior for files, settings, and just adding extra things. I want weather of some random city, meta key + first few letters of city and then click weather. Same for searching my email, music etc.

And since it is so fast, yes, when I hit meta key + mat to load up matlab, I see a red screen for a tenth of a second, but it is loaded.
And if I am not exactly sure of the name of the app, the search is great for that too!

The new start screen/menu/whatever is not good for mouse, who cares, it is AMAZING for keyboard! Which can be done far quicker and more efficient then ANY mouse driven GUI launcher from any OS I have ever used. From all the various cool front ends to Linux to the various Mac. This is just soo damn much quicker and fast and efficent.

And that is why I love it! You guys are just doing it all wrong.

EDIT

And this whole going to metro issue. It is a non issue. I ONLY go to metro when I use the meta key to start something. If you do not like the metro apps, do not use them!

I admit, I did setup some live tiles with weather, calendar, and a few other tickers like that with info. So right now while typing this, I keep my desktop clean with no gadgets for that info, not a bunch of crappy add-ons for my web browser, but to see weather and calendar and news, I hit the meta key on my keyboard, read it all at a glance, and then hit the meta key again to go back to regular desktop. It is a breeze, incredibly easy and quick. I checked the weather and news and my calendar without having to take my hands of the keyboard while typing this edit to this post. And I did it at the speed I can read, without taking up any of my screen real estate with silly gadgets like in Win 7.


This comment was edited on May 31, 2013, 22:14.
 
Avatar 15513
 
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
55 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo