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46 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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26. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 15:08 Quboid
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 19, 2013, 13:58:
So throwing a toaster on the scrapyard is murder? (Reminds of the dialog in BSG)

Don't get me wrong. If you show me a robotic life form that can feel empathy and act according to logical and emphatic reasoning then I will gladly call that a life form and give it full rights as equal. But robots as we know them are not a life-form and thus not worthy of ethical consideration (yet).

And the robots in Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon are not that. They are toasters with guns. Or did any enemy in FC3 throw weapon away and surrender or act in any way against their programming? Did you see one of them pleading or writing a love letter?

It's absurd to even consider the enemies in shooters as simulations of humans. They are the facsimile of humans meaning they are not humans, they just pretend to be.

This is pretty much why I never consider shooters relevant to ethics because the enemies are usually dehumanized fakes. They make look human, but in the end they are toasters with guns. Following their programming until death.

If I'm reading you right, you're talking about how computer game humans relate to real humans.

I think the point is that in FC3:BD, unlike most games including FC3, the enemies are simulations of humans within the game's universe. So in reality, they're a facsimile of a simulation of a person. Or a simulation of a facsimile of a person, possibly.

It seems odd to me that you're not supposed to question religion because it's a fundamental part of people's beliefs and how they live their life. Surely nothing should more open to question? That's not to say labelling someone a religious nut is very helpful, particularly when the review doesn't come across particularly nutty to me.
 
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25. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 15:04 Burrito of Peace
 
Blue wrote on May 19, 2013, 10:01:
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 18, 2013, 19:13:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on May 18, 2013, 18:33:
Akando wrote on May 18, 2013, 16:36:
Wow, hate speech much?

Hate speech? Seriously? I guess the bar must be rolling around on the ground these days...

Only from people who are too frightened and incapable of rationally and logically discussing the pros and cons of any topic. It's now de rigueur to whine and cry "hate speech" or "racism" when you don't like what someone says but can't effectively and intelligently present a counter argument.

That's it... someone couldn't come up with an effective retort for the compellingly stated argument of calling someone a "religious nut"?

I didn't realize bigotry needed a more direct counterargument than being called out.

Simply identifying a problem doesn't resolve the problem itself, Blue. If that were the case, the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s would never have needed to occur. We'd have all been legally equal since 1865 when the 54th Regiment Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry was disbanded.
 
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24. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 14:55 Quinn
 
Overon: Well said.

ItBurns: Tell me you're kidding me? Don't go all Mass Effect on us :O

I find it hilarious how the first poster got that "hate speech!" reply, with Blues even saying he felt like deleting the post. It's fucking ridiculous.

People deserve respect, their religion and ideas do not. Exactly like Overon said. When a person tells me he believes in a talking snake, I laugh in his face. There's no crime in ridiculing religion. If you ask me, it's high time to do so.
 
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"Moo," she said.
And I trembled.
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23. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 13:58 eRe4s3r
 
So throwing a toaster on the scrapyard is murder? (Reminds of the dialog in BSG)

Don't get me wrong. If you show me a robotic life form that can feel empathy and act according to logical and emphatic reasoning then I will gladly call that a life form and give it full rights as equal. But robots as we know them are not a life-form and thus not worthy of ethical consideration (yet).

And the robots in Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon are not that. They are toasters with guns. Or did any enemy in FC3 throw weapon away and surrender or act in any way against their programming? Did you see one of them pleading or writing a love letter?

It's absurd to even consider the enemies in shooters as simulations of humans. They are the facsimile of humans meaning they are not humans, they just pretend to be.

This is pretty much why I never consider shooters relevant to ethics because the enemies are usually dehumanized fakes. They make look human, but in the end they are toasters with guns. Following their programming until death.
 
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22. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 13:39 ItBurn
 
Overon wrote on May 19, 2013, 13:32:
When would a robot be worthy of ethical consideration?

Humans are robots made with biological matter instead of synthetic matter.
 
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21. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 13:32 Overon
 
Wikipedia defines bigotry as "a state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, religion, language, socioeconomic status, or other status."
It's a weird definition. Notice that race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, socialeconomic status are largely IMMUTABLE characteristics, yet religion, a set of ideas, are not largely IMMUTABLE, stands out like a sore thumb. One thing is not like the others. Also religion is a position and ideas not any kind of status. Therefore I don't think what the first poster said qualifies as religious bigotry. Was it means-pirited, maybe. I believe humans deserve respect, their ideas however, do not. And religious ideas qualify. They are not immutable just as my ideas on the best economic system do not deserve special respect because they are just ideas, they have no feelings to hurt. Though I may not call people wingnuts for tactical reasons because usually name calling shuts down any conversation with them and results in mean spirited discussion.

I disagree with the reviewer because I think though he said he enjoyed the game, he could not recommend it for "moral reasons." I disagree with him, it is not unethical to kill in a virtual environment. But I see that many Christian denominations believe people can commit "sin" aka act immorally even with their thoughts, so I can understand from his perspective where he is coming from even though I think "thought crimes" is an absurd notion.

P.S.
When would a robot be worthy of ethical consideration?

This comment was edited on May 19, 2013, 15:01.
 
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20. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 12:02 Linksil
 
Blue wrote on May 19, 2013, 09:52:
No. I don't have a TM on the name or anything, but I'm not sure why someone wouldchoose to do that.

I think if Blue tried to copyright the name you'd see a lot of lawyers get involved from the blue man group alone, let alone other people. I don't think you should be able to copyright any name personally. I love telling people after that prerecorded message about using your call in a training call that they need to contact me before that because my voice is copyrighted and they'll need to pay me to use it.
 
Munching On: Warframe, Final Fantasy 6, Tales of Xallia, Saints Row 4.
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19. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 10:58 Mad Max RW
 
It wouldn't be a video game news site without bigoted cowards spewing their shit in the comments section.  
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18. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 10:01  Blue 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 18, 2013, 19:13:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on May 18, 2013, 18:33:
Akando wrote on May 18, 2013, 16:36:
Wow, hate speech much?

Hate speech? Seriously? I guess the bar must be rolling around on the ground these days...

Only from people who are too frightened and incapable of rationally and logically discussing the pros and cons of any topic. It's now de rigueur to whine and cry "hate speech" or "racism" when you don't like what someone says but can't effectively and intelligently present a counter argument.

That's it... someone couldn't come up with an effective retort for the compellingly stated argument of calling someone a "religious nut"?

I didn't realize bigotry needed a more direct counterargument than being called out.
 
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Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
Blue's News Publisher, Editor-in-Chief, El Presidente for Life
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17. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 09:52  Blue 
 
Fibrocyte wrote on May 18, 2013, 16:16:
Holy shit... "Christ Centered Gamer". Really? I scanned the article just to see what the hell some religious nut would say about Blood Dragon and it's about what you'd expect:

I'd delete this post for the needless jab but for the need to address the question that follows. I think its safe to assume everyone has there own opinions formed already on religion without your inflammatory editorial.

Also, the reviewer is "Blue" -- is that this site's owner?

No. I don't have a TM on the name or anything, but I'm not sure why someone wouldchoose to do that.
 
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Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
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16. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 08:27 eRe4s3r
 
yuastnav wrote on May 19, 2013, 08:09:
eRe4s3r wrote on May 19, 2013, 06:17:
It's a play on the morality meter. Violence against non AGI machines that want to kill you (a human) has no morality. It is vandalism with no morality attached when you thrash them.

In essence, this game shows violence against robots that want to kill you. There are no morals involved in that. It's programming, and a programmed machine has no morals. (Only the programmer has).

Ergo, there is no moral impact of this violence. Unless you think breaking a toaster has a moral impact on par with actual violence that can hurt someone or something living.....


Careful. Different people have different moral standards.
There is no one moral standard.
There may be people for whom it is entirely morally correct to kill humans but not to harm machines if this is the way they morality system works.

Good point But I doubt Christianity (The standard of morality said review applies) finds it morally evil to break a toaster

Well but apart from that I agree with you. Obviously morals are free flowing and just a sign of the times. In 1000 years people will surely find us immoral barbarians... I mean, the AGI Machines that live then will ;p
 
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15. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 08:09 yuastnav
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 19, 2013, 06:17:
It's a play on the morality meter. Violence against non AGI machines that want to kill you (a human) has no morality. It is vandalism with no morality attached when you thrash them.

In essence, this game shows violence against robots that want to kill you. There are no morals involved in that. It's programming, and a programmed machine has no morals. (Only the programmer has).

Ergo, there is no moral impact of this violence. Unless you think breaking a toaster has a moral impact on par with actual violence that can hurt someone or something living.....


Careful. Different people have different moral standards.
There is no one moral standard.
There may be people for whom it is entirely morally correct to kill humans but not to harm machines if this is the way they morality system works.
 
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14. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 06:17 eRe4s3r
 
It's a play on the morality meter. Violence against non AGI machines that want to kill you (a human) has no morality. It is vandalism with no morality attached when you thrash them.

In essence, this game shows violence against robots that want to kill you. There are no morals involved in that. It's programming, and a programmed machine has no morals. (Only the programmer has).

Ergo, there is no moral impact of this violence. Unless you think breaking a toaster has a moral impact on par with actual violence that can hurt someone or something living.....

 
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13. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 05:50 netnerd85
 
Jensen wrote on May 19, 2013, 02:13:
eRe4s3r wrote on May 19, 2013, 00:06:
Dunno where he sees "violence" but shooting robots and cyborg animals is at best vandalism
Yeah, in this game you're only simulating the shooting of simulations of people instead of simulating the shooting of people.
You guys really don't know what violent behaviour is if you think it's limited to human vs human. Which is alarming to say the least.
 
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12. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 02:51 eRe4s3r
 
I wish he would review the bible... wonder what that would get on his morality meter.. hehehehe  
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11. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 02:45 Jivaro
 
NKD wrote on May 19, 2013, 02:31:
Guy is going to hell for even playing that game, so...

He is making the sacrifice for everyone else. Going for the martyr angle.
 
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10. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 02:31 NKD
 
Guy is going to hell for even playing that game, so...  
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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9. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 02:13 Jensen
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 19, 2013, 00:06:
Dunno where he sees "violence" but shooting robots and cyborg animals is at best vandalism
Yeah, in this game you're only simulating the shooting of simulations of people instead of simulating the shooting of people.
 
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8. Re: Game Reviews May 19, 2013, 00:06 eRe4s3r
 
Anyhow, it's a decent review, all flaws are mentioned and the morality counter always makes me giggle ,) In this one more than usual, because the enemies are all FULL cyborgs. Dunno where he sees "violence" but shooting robots and cyborg animals is at best vandalism  
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7. Re: Game Reviews May 18, 2013, 20:06 ItBurn
 
Their reviews are actually kinda good. They review games like any other site, but they add the "moral" score at the end for those who'd want to know. They barely talk about it. It's kind of a bummer because it would be a lot more entertaining to read the perspective of a crazy christian. I think their earlier reviews were more like that.  
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46 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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