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More Watch_Dogs Footage

Here's a new trailer from Watch Dogs/Watch_Dogs showing off more open world gameplay from the upcoming sandbox hacking game, without the benefit of informative journalist exposition explaining what you see. The clip runs about six minutes showing our protagonist engaging in a little electronic mischief and then shows an action-oriented escape when his cover is blown.

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29. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 14, 2013, 13:04 Creston
 
1badmf wrote on May 13, 2013, 15:53:
soooo... have AI slider maybe? or have it scale with difficulty level?

Apparently that's pretty hard to do. A dev basically winds up having to create a completely new AI for every diff level, as it's hard to just take a good AI and gimp it in a few ways, and make it still be fun to play against.

Again, that's complete hearsay. It's not as if I know the first thing about programming AI.

Creston
 
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28. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 14, 2013, 04:35 Quinn
 
Hitman: Absolution is a good example for how a game can get fucked up if they try to make the AI too realistic. In reality, when you disguise yourself as a police officer, it's logical that you can't walk into a police office because colleagues tend to know eachother. In the older Hitmans, that realism was turned around: wear a disguise and the people with that same uniform will accept you among their ranks. That's what made the game fun! The worse mistake they made in H:A was trying go bring realism to the series.  
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27. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 14, 2013, 02:23 SlimRam
 
Was anyone else as disturbed as I was by the guy sitting and talking to the mannequin? I mean *slowly shoving my female mannequin under my couch as I type this on my laptop* WOW even for a game...I mean....that's like twisted..*whispers out of the corner of my mouth, "No no dear, I still love you....you just have to stay under there for now..."* *cough* Yep yep yep Jeeeze, PEOPLE huh, freakin people *shaking my head*  
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26. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 14, 2013, 01:42 netnerd85
 
Prez wrote on May 14, 2013, 00:34:
Yeah, people get WAY too hung up on AI in games. It only needs to be believable for me. In fact, I prefer dumb AI; the AI in Deus Ex was way stupid but it made for a better game IMO. With 'realistic' AI stealth games would be all but impossible for me. Cue the "console retard" comments, but whatever. I deserve to be entertained when I spend money on a game as much as the 'elite super awesome' gamers (like every loudmouth blowhard on Bluenews, for example ).
I love bad rag doll, I want to see them fly across the room when I shoot them with a shot gun, it's funny!

You should be able to shoot a corpse across the floor with an MG... that's... FUN!

why do they take the fun away
 
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25. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 14, 2013, 00:34 Prez
 
Yeah, people get WAY too hung up on AI in games. It only needs to be believable for me. In fact, I prefer dumb AI; the AI in Deus Ex was way stupid but it made for a better game IMO. With 'realistic' AI stealth games would be all but impossible for me. Cue the "console retard" comments, but whatever. I deserve to be entertained when I spend money on a game as much as the 'elite super awesome' gamers (like every loudmouth blowhard on Bluenews, for example ).  
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24. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 20:24 ItBurn
 
I'm going to add a different point of view on AI. The best AI I've seen in games has been labeled as "horrible" by gamers like you, many of which actually roam here. All of this because, rarely, they do something dumb. Or sometimes because they do something perfectly fine, but that you just don't understand. The AI was complex and did amazing things, but in these incredibly detailed and dynamic games, they failed sometimes. But when it worked, wow. That's not what you want though. You'd rather have the dumbest AI, more like auto-aiming turrets, if it meant you'd never have to see them make a mistake. Anyway, that's what I've seen happening and every time it did, I saw games walk away from trying to do real AI.  
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23. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 20:03 wtf_man
 
What I want to know is, why you are allowed to "shoot-em-up" in the server building compounds, alarms go off and everything, and the cops don't come???

But yet, in the previous video, if you chase down some dude that was going to kill his ex, and do a non-lethal take down with your baton... you suddenly have the whole department after you???

Wtf

This comment was edited on May 13, 2013, 20:12.
 
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22. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 17:39 siapnar
 
I disagree.

In this case, it's chalked up to laziness on the developers part.
They've obviously got very generalized AI reactions to player trigger events, such as that gate opening, and the forklift moving by itself.
The reaction for both was to be slightly alert and look at the occurrence, and then say a random sentence out of their 'startled guard statements' repertoire. And both times, what they said made no sense. And both times, they just started at the occurrence (one with his nose basically touching it)

Even if they had a more realistic reaction of looking around and pacing the area a bit, it's not like the player couldn't take them both down easily and separately by stealthily moving up behind them.
I'm not saying have it ultra realistic - which I do agree, would be a pain in the ass more than fun - but at least a little more challenging.

As it stands, the guards act like pylons, ready to be knocked over.
Like I said, shitty AI, even by open world standards.
 
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21. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 17:12 Dmitri_M
 
NKD wrote on May 13, 2013, 16:48:
Dmitri_M wrote on May 13, 2013, 16:37:
The more complicated the AI code the harder it is to have the sorts of "free" systems you have in this title.

Yeah, like Creston said, the idea isn't to make the AI as realistic as possible. The idea is to make it a challenge to overcome, one of many in the game.

Scenario: Hacker terrorist is on the loose. You're a security guard at a key site. Realistically when electronic devices start to screw up, the very first camera goes offline, or anything out of the ordinary happens at all: SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. And then call in the national guard.

That's not very fun if you're trying to do a stealth playthrough without the benefit of a cloaking device, because you rely exclusively on distraction, timing, and exploiting the weakness of the electronic security. If none of that matters because the guards fall back to key locations with clear lines of sight at the first sign of trouble, then you've killed a huge portion of the gameplay.
Yeah "dumb" AI is often a design decision rather than a failure of programmers.

Very convenient for programmers though
 
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20. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 17:07 Kosumo
 
Why is a guy who can hack all that stuff going to pawn stuff for money? really? Can't hack a ATM?  
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19. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 16:48 NKD
 
Dmitri_M wrote on May 13, 2013, 16:37:
The more complicated the AI code the harder it is to have the sorts of "free" systems you have in this title.

Yeah, like Creston said, the idea isn't to make the AI as realistic as possible. The idea is to make it a challenge to overcome, one of many in the game.

Scenario: Hacker terrorist is on the loose. You're a security guard at a key site. Realistically when electronic devices start to screw up, the very first camera goes offline, or anything out of the ordinary happens at all: SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. And then call in the national guard.

That's not very fun if you're trying to do a stealth playthrough without the benefit of a cloaking device, because you rely exclusively on distraction, timing, and exploiting the weakness of the electronic security. If none of that matters because the guards fall back to key locations with clear lines of sight at the first sign of trouble, then you've killed a huge portion of the gameplay.
 
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18. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 16:44 Tumbler
 
Got this game in the "Don't watch or look at anything" mode. Trying to keep myself "in the dark" on any details. I'm guessing it'll be announced as a launch game on the new consoles so hopefully the pc version will turn out ok...maybe even release on the same day and date!  
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17. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 16:37 Dmitri_M
 
The more complicated the AI code the harder it is to have the sorts of "free" systems you have in this title.  
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16. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 15:56 SpectralMeat
 
I am still looking forward to this game, don't really care about ai behavior in that video, as I have no idea if that is finished code and what difficulty setting they were playing this on.

The mission they were showing in this video must be earlier in the game then the one missions they've showed when they've announced this game imo. Maybe that is why it looks much less exciting.

Either way I am going to get this game, because I can not wait to play it.
 
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15. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 15:53 1badmf
 
soooo... have AI slider maybe? or have it scale with difficulty level? i always thought that was the proper way to increase difficulty anyway; not the nonsense with the increase enemy health/autoaim/gimp you/whathaveyou. i'd rather face a few quality baddies than a roomful of hackerbots.  
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14. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 15:33 Verno
 
Yeah exactly Creston, the problem with smart AI is the mass market argument that most people are too dumb to appreciate it. Many people play games for power fulfillment fantasties and just want dumb things to beat up on. It sucks but go watch friends and family play videogames sometime  
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13. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 14:51 Creston
 
siapnar wrote on May 13, 2013, 12:30:
Forklift moves by itself:
Guard walks over to put his face 6 inches from it "Dog maybe..?".
Yes, a fucking dog just moved the forklift.

The security gate to the compound spontaneously opens:
Guard barely moves and just says "over there.." nonchalantly.

It's actually embarrassing how little AI has been addressed in today's games.


I do agree with that, but there's a flipside to the equation. AI that is way too aggressive and remains in hostile mode quickly becomes no fun for (wannabe) stealthy players, as a single slipup means you're screwed and basically have to restart.

I believe it was in an interview for either NOLF or NOLF2, when addressing that the AI was terrible at searching for Cate, that the devs stated that they originally had AI that kept searching until it found you, but it was way too good at it and it quickly became annoying to their test players, to the point where they'd just reload their last savegame if they got spotted.

Creston
 
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12. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 14:48 Cutter
 
At least with Ass Creed you're getting some interesting history.
 
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11. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 14:15 xXBatmanXx
 
CrashTestDummy wrote on May 13, 2013, 12:08:
The very first gameplay demo was pretty impressive when they revealed it at E3 last year. But I haven't been getting the same vibe from the subsequent trailers. Its starting to look more and more like GTA with hacking elements. Not saying that it won't be fun, but doesn't seem as innovative as it initially looked to be. Interested but skeptical about the final game.

Edit: The ability to jump from camera to camera was pretty cool though. I hope that it is implemented as a solid gameplay mechanic, rather than a gimmick.

Well, the difference between this and what they showed originally isl ike night and day. Draw distance is majorly cut back (which I assumed it would be, that was a tiny drawn area for that scene) and this looks like everything else related to GTA and Ass Creed.

I really don't see much special about this game. The sounds are very similar to ass creed, the movement is identical, etc. They just redid ass creed with a new setting and story. (broad statement that shows my disappointment) Even the pop ups and info is the same layout and delivery as their AC games.

Definite wait and see.
 
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10. Re: More Watch_Dogs Footage May 13, 2013, 12:30 siapnar
 
Well, looks like shitty AI has still not been tackled. Even in what was purported as an innovative title by today's standards, the AI fucking blows.

Forklift moves by itself:
Guard walks over to put his face 6 inches from it "Dog maybe..?".
Yes, a fucking dog just moved the forklift.

The security gate to the compound spontaneously opens:
Guard barely moves and just says "over there.." nonchalantly.

It's actually embarrassing how little AI has been addressed in today's games.

That said, game still looks like a winner. It should be a lot of fun and I think the story will really shine through.
Even if there's not a whole lot to do in the city (see: Mafia 2), if the story and set-pieces are well done, I'll be happy.

Cutter wrote on May 13, 2013, 12:12:
This looks like it could repetitious very quickly. I'm sure the first few hours would probably be pretty awesome but it may do downhill quickly after that if you're just doing the same thing over and over.
Seems to be a trend with Ubisoft games. They are pretty damn awesome at first, though.

This comment was edited on May 13, 2013, 14:12.
 
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