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Morning Interviews

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19. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 23:21 Prez
 
Julio wrote on May 8, 2013, 17:25:
Climbing that corporate ladder is always about who you know and how you look. The most skilled person rarely gets the job. I have no idea whether Jade is the most skilled at her job, but I'd say it's unlikely.

And this applies to both men and women, no sexism here.

If Ms. Raymond happens to be the most qualified for her position while also being one of the most attractive women in the industry then kudos for her. But some of us are just touching on the fact that it rarely works that way. Statistically, while wholly possible, it is unlikely; saying so is not sexist.

On the flipside attractive people also tend to be more confident and self-assured, which in turn can lead to being more assertive in their pursuit of success, so she actually may have earned her position.
 
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18. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 21:09 nin
 


Not cool, dude...

 
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17. removed May 8, 2013, 20:55 SlimRam
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on May 9, 2013, 06:28.
 
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16. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 17:25 Julio
 
Climbing that corporate ladder is always about who you know and how you look. The most skilled person rarely gets the job. I have no idea whether Jade is the most skilled at her job, but I'd say it's unlikely.

And this applies to both men and women, no sexism here.
 
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15. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 16:09 Verno
 
Cutter wrote on May 8, 2013, 16:06:
When the mucky-mucks were siting down to decide who to promote to executive producer I'm sure there were many more men with a lot more industry cred than Raymond.

Maybe there were some other women too? Gaming isn't quite the boys club it used to be. By all accounts shes a very driven and capable employee who started at the bottom and worked her way up. If this was some empty head with no experience I would get the cynicism but it seems totally disconnected from reality here, go look at her work bio. I've got some personal anecdotes about affirmative action and workplace reform too but they don't seem to apply to this specific situation because she has actual dev chops and earned her place.

Most of the empty head, coasting on their looks type people in the gaming industry seem to live on the marketing side of things. I often wonder if these people are smarter than they seem when you look at modern marketing budgets.

This comment was edited on May 8, 2013, 16:16.
 
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14. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 16:06 Cutter
 
When the mucky-mucks were siting down to decide who to promote to executive producer I'm sure there were many more men with a lot more industry cred than Raymond. I'm not saying she's unqualified or bad at her job - fact is, no one who doesn't work for her would really know anyway - but the thought of having a woman, and a very attractive one at that, being one of the "faces" that interacts with the public for the company obviously played a large part. Yes, there's a way things ought to be and the way things are, and one doesn't make the other right.

Hell, an ex of mine was a model - total fox. She was tired of it and decided to jump into tech when it started taking off. She started as a receptionist for Compuserve. She was a high school drop out, and while she wasn't dumb, she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed either. Within 3 years she had been promoted to an executive position in PR for the company. Leapfrogging ahead of what I'm sure were many other qualified people - both men and women. And to this day I still sincerely doubt it was because of her natural abilities and almost entirely predicated on her natural beauty.

We all see it all the time in places we work, and it's not just women. How many yoyo managers have you seen who simply were in the positions they were in because they had the right connections and went to the right schools? I know wheneve I've hired people I'm automatically wary of pretty people who come in and grill them mercilessly on their actual product knowledge and supposed skillset. I suppose that makes me odd for actually wanting to hire people who actually know what the fuck they're doing.
 
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13. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 15:17 Yakubs
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on May 8, 2013, 14:37:
Ahh yes, if it's an attractive woman, she obviously got where she is because of her looks. If those who think that did 5 minutes of reading on Jade Raymond, they'd know she actually worked quite hard and is well regarded in the industry as an exceptional project manager. But she's cute so that must be why right. And people claim there isn't a sexism issue in the industry. Christ.

This isn't Jessica Chobot we're talking about here. Look her her game industry "origin story", compare it to Raymond's and spot the differences. They're rather significant.

Um, Jessica Chobot is a talking head. Obviously she's going to be judged based on how she looks. I'm not sure how her story is relevant to Jade Raymond's.

But you're right, Jade Raymond's story is probably somewhere in the middle between her good looks and her skills. Which is still unfair, no?
 
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12. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 14:37 Parallax Abstraction
 
Ahh yes, if it's an attractive woman, she obviously got where she is because of her looks. If those who think that did 5 minutes of reading on Jade Raymond, they'd know she actually worked quite hard and is well regarded in the industry as an exceptional project manager. But she's cute so that must be why right. And people claim there isn't a sexism issue in the industry. Christ.

This isn't Jessica Chobot we're talking about here. Look her her game industry "origin story", compare it to Raymond's and spot the differences. They're rather significant.
 
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11. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 14:26 Verno
 
Yakubs wrote on May 8, 2013, 14:18:
I understood what you originally wrote. I think the real point is that, if BioWare had hired Jade Raymond, she would have done just as well at BioWare as she would have at Ubisoft. Maybe even better considering my point about their maturity level.

Shrug, too many what ifs there. I think talented people would do well at most companies, Bioware was just an example of one where both attractive and unattractive people are in positions of power in the gaming industry. Also their writers are decidely immature but I'm not sure that means the entire company is.

As for women in the industry it seems like no matter what is accomplished people will believe it's based on the looks and to be fair that's happened in the past. Personally I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 
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10. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 14:18 Yakubs
 
Verno wrote on May 8, 2013, 14:10:
Yakubs wrote on May 8, 2013, 14:04:
Considering Bioware's staff has the sexual maturity of an 8th-grader, I wouldn't use them as an example.

Maybe but they employ people in positions regardless of appearance which was the point.

I understood what you originally wrote. I think the real point is that, if BioWare had hired Jade Raymond, she would have done just as well at BioWare as she would have at Ubisoft. Maybe even better considering my point about their maturity level.
 
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9. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 14:10 Verno
 
Yakubs wrote on May 8, 2013, 14:04:
Considering Bioware's staff has the sexual maturity of an 8th-grader, I wouldn't use them as an example.

Maybe but they employ people in positions regardless of appearance which was the point.
 
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8. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 14:04 Yakubs
 
Verno wrote on May 8, 2013, 13:52:
Prez wrote on May 8, 2013, 13:48:
I am sure she is hard working and passionate about her job but I kinda suspect that she wouldn't be where she is now if she were not such a pretty lady. Nothing wrong with that; it's just how things work, right or wrong.

Oh I don't know, Bioware for example has some women fairly high up who I don't find very attractive. Gaming as an industry has grown up a lot in the past ten years. Being attractive certainly never hurts your chances I suppose though.

Considering Bioware's staff has the sexual maturity of an 8th-grader, I wouldn't use them as an example.

Anyway, it's obvious that Raymond got ahead through her looks. But it's also obvious that she got ahead by towing the company line. Just listen to her vomit-inducing interviews about how games are so difficult for some people that she thinks they should have an option to just play themselves.
 
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7. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 13:52 Verno
 
Prez wrote on May 8, 2013, 13:48:
I am sure she is hard working and passionate about her job but I kinda suspect that she wouldn't be where she is now if she were not such a pretty lady. Nothing wrong with that; it's just how things work, right or wrong.

Oh I don't know, Bioware for example has some women fairly high up who I don't find very attractive. Gaming as an industry has grown up a lot in the past ten years. Being attractive certainly never hurts your chances I suppose though.
 
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6. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 13:48 Prez
 
I am sure she is hard working and passionate about her job but I kinda suspect that she wouldn't be where she is now if she were not such a pretty lady. Nothing wrong with that; it's just how things work, right or wrong.  
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5. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 13:42 Verno
 
Cutter wrote on May 8, 2013, 12:33:
Never ceases to amaze me how far looks alone can take a woman.

Appearances help everyone, not just women. In this case she started out pretty low level and has done everything from QA to programming to producing. You don't get that far on looks alone in gaming unless you're the Xbox Live Greeter and if you did you wouldn't choose to take so many grunt jobs along the way. She's obviously talented at her work, Ubisoft isn't known for trumping up empty heads to run expensive studios.
 
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4. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 13:35 Cutter
 
Oh I don't blame people for using them, I blame other people are used by them. I work in an industry where appearance constantly trumps skill and knowledge and its ridiculous. That's the result of bad ownership and management.
 
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3. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 12:36 Bodolza
 
Naturally, it's a video interview, cause no one would be interested if there weren't pictures. Rolleyes

I've got no problem with her using her looks to get ahead. We all use our inherited genetic abilities to succeed (and fail).
 
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2. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 12:33 Cutter
 
Never ceases to amaze me how far looks alone can take a woman.
 
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1. Re: Morning Interviews May 8, 2013, 10:44 ViRGE
 
Just reading the comments... Jesus. What the hell is it about nerds that causes them to lose 50 IQ points whenever the subject of Jade Raymond comes up?  
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