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Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses

Kotaku has a response from SEGA to the lawsuit filed against them and Gearbox over differences between how Aliens: Colonial Marines was marketed and how the first-person shooter turned out. They say they cannot comment, and then proceed to comment: "SEGA cannot comment on specifics of ongoing litigation," they tell the site. "But we are confident that the lawsuit is without merit and we will defend it vigorously." They followed this up with a comment from Gearbox, who think it is less than without merit, saying they will defend the rights of entertainers: "Attempting to wring a class action lawsuit out of a demonstration is beyond meritless. We continue to support the game, and will defend the rights of entertainers to share their works-in-progress without fear of frivolous litigation."

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82. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 23:24 Jerykk
 
A shitty game? Sure ok. But a product that resembles nothing of what was advertised to the public many times, and completely broken to boot? It's false advertising.

Saying that the advertised game looks nothing like the actual game is a bit of an exaggeration. It definitely looks nicer than the actual game but again, that's always the case in marketing. Ubisoft is notorious for photoshopping all their screenshots. Just check out the official screenshots for Far Cry 3. Nobody's suing them for false advertising.

CM isn't completely broken, either. You can play the game from start to finish. Are there bugs? Sure. Is the game unpolished? You betcha. But it's not technically broken by the criteria that would merit a lawsuit.

As I said before, I'm not defending CM. I think it's a shitty game. However, I think this lawsuit is pretty absurd, given that its accusations can be applied to pretty much every game (or any other product) ever made. Why hasn't anyone sued Peter Molyneaux for all the crap he lies about? Why hasn't anyone sued Ubisoft for photoshopping all their screenshots? Why hasn't anyone sued Microsoft for making it look like multiplatform titles are Xbox exclusives by only showing their own logo at the end of TV spots? Why hasn't anyone sued Square for marketing their games using only pre-rendered cinematics? Hell, a lot of ads use CGI that isn't even in the game (like the Bioshock Infinite TV spots). The GameStop ads routinely use modified in-game assets to represent scenes and events that never actually happen in the respective games. I can give you a million examples of ads that are even more misleading than CM's and yet received no legal threats.

To single out CM amongst the sea of bullshit that has always been the foundation of marketing just seems silly.
 
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81. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 08:49 Verno
 
People should be suing about the absurd blue tinge filter added into BF3 after the beta, that shit was obnoxious.  
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80. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 07:42 Beamer
 
Has anyone posted definitively that the TV spots featured E3 footage?

That Polygon piece linked shows the difference between the 2012 E3 footage and the release. Well, the 2012 E3 footage was a long, long, long time ago.

I'm sure I could spend some time on YouTube and get to the bottom of this, but too much time has already been devoted to this garbage game.

Bottom line, though, everyone here seems to be willfully forgetting how regularly we've seen previews from E3 and said "the final game will look nothing like that." You also forget doing it for this particular game.
We've all said that because we know it's always true. Except for deger, who seems to have no clue how programming works.
 
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79. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 06:10 Sempai
 
Jerykk wrote on May 6, 2013, 04:23:
What about the fact that they used E3 footage for their TV commercial AFTER the release though?

TV spots have always been unrepresentative. How many TV spots for a Final Fantasy game have shown actual gameplay? Hell, how many TV spots in general show actual gameplay? 99% of the time, they just show cutscenes.

Marketing has always shown products in an unrealistic and favorable manner. That's what marketing does and E3 is a marketing convention. If you buy a game based on a E3 demo (or marketing in general), you are no in position to cry foul when what you get is less impressive than what was advertised. However, that doesn't make it false advertising. To accuse someone of false advertising, you need objective and quantifiable features that were explicitly advertised but not delivered in the final product. If you bought ACM and got Pong, that would be enough to sue for false advertising. If you bought ACM and got the correct game, only with less impressive graphics and shitty gameplay, that's not false advertising. That's just advertising doing its job and making a product look better than it actually is.

At this point it appears as if you're defending them at any cost.
A shitty game? Sure ok. But a product that resembles nothing of what was advertised to the public many times, and completely broken to boot? It's false advertising.

Hell, Sega publicly admitted it themselves in Europe.

http://sbn.to/13R5NwE via @Polygon
 
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78. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 04:23 Jerykk
 
What about the fact that they used E3 footage for their TV commercial AFTER the release though?

TV spots have always been unrepresentative. How many TV spots for a Final Fantasy game have shown actual gameplay? Hell, how many TV spots in general show actual gameplay? 99% of the time, they just show cutscenes.

Marketing has always shown products in an unrealistic and favorable manner. That's what marketing does and E3 is a marketing convention. If you buy a game based on a E3 demo (or marketing in general), you are no in position to cry foul when what you get is less impressive than what was advertised. However, that doesn't make it false advertising. To accuse someone of false advertising, you need objective and quantifiable features that were explicitly advertised but not delivered in the final product. If you bought ACM and got Pong, that would be enough to sue for false advertising. If you bought ACM and got the correct game, only with less impressive graphics and shitty gameplay, that's not false advertising. That's just advertising doing its job and making a product look better than it actually is.
 
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77. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 6, 2013, 04:14 Jerykk
 
Here's how a person with common sense disables the fast food analogy: Nobody goes to Mcdonalds expecting a 5-star gourmet meal. Unless you're stupid, of course. THINK

And you expect an early E3 demo to accurately represent a final game? If so, you're in no position to be calling people stupid. Common sense, my dear.

This comment was edited on May 6, 2013, 04:29.
 
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76. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 5, 2013, 10:26 Mad Max RW
 
Jerykk wrote on May 4, 2013, 19:40:
I'm not defending CM in any way but this lawsuit is dumb. Marketing misrepresents products all the time. Ever seen a fast food commercial? Notice how the burgers always look about a million times better than the burgers you actually get?

That's it! FAST FOOD! YOU ARE SO INSIGHTFUL. IT'S NOT LIKE 50 MILLION PEOPLE ALREADY MADE THAT EXACT SAME ANALOGY BEFORE YOU! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR OPENING OUR EYES!

Here's how a person with common sense disables the fast food analogy: Nobody goes to Mcdonalds expecting a 5-star gourmet meal. Unless you're stupid, of course. THINK

This comment was edited on May 5, 2013, 10:32.
 
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75. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 5, 2013, 08:54 durandal
 
What about the fact that they used E3 footage for their TV commercial AFTER the release though?  
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74. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 19:40 Jerykk
 
I'm not defending CM in any way but this lawsuit is dumb. Marketing misrepresents products all the time. Ever seen a fast food commercial? Notice how the burgers always look about a million times better than the burgers you actually get?

Unless a product explicitly advertises a feature it doesn't actually have, it's not considered false advertising. For example, if a TV is advertised as being 50 inches but is actually 20 inches, that's false advertising. However, if a TV promises the best image quality ever but ends up being shitty, that's not false advertising because image quality isn't quantifiable and largely subjective.
 
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73. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 19:22 Mad Max RW
 
I didn't know Blue's News had so many lawyers posting here.  
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72. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 13:35 deqer
 
Beamer wrote on May 4, 2013, 09:39:
deqer wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:17:
"work in progress" doesn't mean you show in-game footage that looks better than what the released product ends up being.

"work in progress" isn't a backwards thing. It's a forwards thing. The finished title is supposed to look better than what your "work in progress" video showed, not look worse.

This is regularly untrue in most industries so stop saying it. Again, cars never look like prototypes, oculus rift is uglir than what was shown on kickstaryrr, Kinect can't see fingers like the prototype, and many games get uglier when they can't get the final version to run as well as what they showed.
Just because you throw a few more examples out there of other people doing it wrong, doesn't make it right.

Beamer wrote on May 4, 2013, 09:39:
And, again, typically what you see at e3 is faked. Its optimization and polish done that hasn't been applied anywhere else and often can't be.
Yup. It's misleading, therefore wrong and should be illegal.

Beamer wrote on May 4, 2013, 09:39:
Stop talking about ...
Yah, how about you stop talking. Thanks. I'm done reading your post. Good day.
 
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71. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 10:02 Redmask
 
Every gaming company does it and I don't think this lawsuit has much merit. E3 used to be home to prerendered demonstrations being passed off as real gameplay. That doesn't mean I like the tactic though and while products change while in development, there is a fine line between that and deceiving customers. Given how aggressive marketing is in the gaming industry these days, perhaps we need some lawsuits like this if for no other reason than to help establish a base line of what is and isn't acceptable again.  
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70. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 09:39 Beamer
 
deqer wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:17:
"work in progress" doesn't mean you show in-game footage that looks better than what the released product ends up being.

"work in progress" isn't a backwards thing. It's a forwards thing. The finished title is supposed to look better than what your "work in progress" video showed, not look worse.

This is regularly untrue in most industries so stop saying it. Again, cars never look like prototypes, oculus rift is uglir than what was shown on kickstaryrr, Kinect can't see fingers like the prototype, and many games get uglier when they can't get the final version to run as well as what they showed.

And, again, typically what you see at e3 is faked. Its optimization and polish done that hasn't been applied anywhere else and often can't be. It becomes aspirational.

Stop talking about the way things work if you don't understand them. Yes, ACM is a collaxsal fuck up. Collassal. Yes, Randy deserves his next game taking a sales hit. But a game not looking like what is shown at e3? God, on this board we used to know that. What happened? When did we get dumb? E3 threads used to be all us criticizing how the release game wouldn't look like the footage. Now suddenly many here are pretending only gearbox does this.
 
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69. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 08:58 Redmask
 
Krovven wrote on May 3, 2013, 23:32:
Don't really care if you think it's total bunk. I'm sure you are speaking for everyone that ever commented on the graphics of the game right? People complained about all of the above, including the aesthetic feel of the game. Textures in the game are fine and on par with other Unreal engine games. Animations are fine, a little stiff at times, but again not a problem unique to ACM.

I don't need or claim to speak for everyone, I can speak for what -I- remember people saying and there are many user and critic reviews of the game on the internet saying the same things. Many of the textures in the game at launch were crap and that's why they had to patch in higher resolution versions for many of them later on. I don't recall anyone saying they didn't recreate the Aliens look and feel well enough, it was washed out, muddy textures and many poorly animated models amongst the bugs and other complaints.
 
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68. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 03:46 Sempai
 
Krovven wrote on May 3, 2013, 23:32:
Redmask wrote on May 3, 2013, 20:38:
Krovven wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:19:
Shataan wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:00:
MANY of the enviros textures etc, looked dated and washed out.

And to that I will quote what I said in the ACM topic a couple days ago.

"The level design, is consistent with the Aliens film. After having played the game a fair amount, and then going back and watching the movie again, they recreated the aesthetic look and floormap exactly like the movie. I can see why some people will take issue with them using a 1986 design and not upgrading it, but I like that they recreated it exactly how it was in the movie."


I watched Aliens an hour ago and find this to be total bunk. The issue isn't with how they recreated the aesthetic feel, the issue people were having was with the actual quality of the models and textures, not to mention many of the poor animations at launch. One of the first patches upgraded hundreds of textures, that wasn't a problem with 'motif'.

Don't really care if you think it's total bunk. I'm sure you are speaking for everyone that ever commented on the graphics of the game right? People complained about all of the above, including the aesthetic feel of the game. Textures in the game are fine and on par with other Unreal engine games. Animations are fine, a little stiff at times, but again not a problem unique to ACM.

Bioshock Infinite is very highly rated. I could show you lots of bad textures, missing textures, lack of graphical features, bad and boring gameplay. In fact there isn't a single game that I couldn't go through and pick out plenty of bad artwork and gameplay.

Not sure why people still want to argue the quality of the game. I've already said before that I agree it's not that great of a game. It is however still a fun game to play.

Back on topic...the argument of whether they succeeded or not with the graphics, models, animations or aesthetic feel of the game has nothing to do with whether this class action lawsuit has any legs. The lawsuit is based on false advertising, whether there was a bait & switch or not and if pre-orders are due compensation. They aren't.

Hey Krowen, lay down the crack pipe son. You honestly thought this game was fun? Are you fucking serious? It was, and still is a broken mess on many fronts..

So you enjoyed running through the entire game where the Aliens AI would simply stop pursuing you if you just kept running? Have you been gaming long? Because if not i'm personally embarrassed for you. And the textures, animations, and level design(when not completely busted) are nothing less than shit-tacular!

Let's go back to 09 and have a look at a game called AVP from Obsidian Entertainment(which supported DX11 btw..)and look at the textures there. Now come on back to 2013 and have a look at Aliens CM. Not only does AVP look better, run better, IS better, but this new shiny 2013 Aliens from Gearbox is a shit sandwich sir!

By all means you keep on trying to convince yourself this new ones a philly steak n cheese, because you're the only one swallowing it.
 
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67. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 03:08 Sempai
 
This, right here shows what soulless pricks Sega, GB, and that useless bag of dicks Randy Pitchford truly are.

Not only was there never once an apology from Sega, Fox, nor Gearbox, but now these spineless eunuch's are attempting to spin their blatant lies into smoke and mirrors. Never offering refunds to fans and customers alike who supported these liars. Those of us(suckers)who were hoping and praying(assured by Pitchford this would be a great Aliens game because of him and his teams deep love for the franchise!)and we purchased this steamy turd in a box. Now their response is this case holds no merit? And will defend their scam against the customer's & fans "vigorously?"

I wish this guy the best of luck. I hope he shoves it down Sega's throat.

Anyone with 5 minutes and a brain can hop on over to metacritic and read the plethora of reviews(of which were embargo'd until 12 midnight that day of release)from around the world and know with certainty that Sega, Fox, and Gearbox were in full damage control mode, attempting to sell as many copies before word got out, knowing full well they were running a big fat scam over the consumer.

Karma's a bitch Randy.
 
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66. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 4, 2013, 00:50 Linksil
 
Yea, showing awesome demo's and then trailers(that are cut to not show any comparison scenes) to get people to buy the game is a bait and switch. Sadly it's not only in this game... HELL Beta's are no longer that but actually game demo's now. They just use the word beta to write off any complaints/errors.

If you have to patch 4 gigs worth of textures of a game I'd say you have a problem with your release and it wasn't finished. I'd go so far as to say ANY game with a day/week one patch needs to fall under this. There's no other way for us to stand up to keeping quality in games instead we've encouraged company's to cut corners, release early, and patch sometime latter/maybe if at all because they already have our money. There needs to be a way to punish company's for releasing things that barely work beyond getting a bad meta critic score. (Which only hurts the devs and not the pubs that pushed it out early most of the time)
 
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65. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 3, 2013, 23:32 Krovven
 
Redmask wrote on May 3, 2013, 20:38:
Krovven wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:19:
Shataan wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:00:
MANY of the enviros textures etc, looked dated and washed out.

And to that I will quote what I said in the ACM topic a couple days ago.

"The level design, is consistent with the Aliens film. After having played the game a fair amount, and then going back and watching the movie again, they recreated the aesthetic look and floormap exactly like the movie. I can see why some people will take issue with them using a 1986 design and not upgrading it, but I like that they recreated it exactly how it was in the movie."


I watched Aliens an hour ago and find this to be total bunk. The issue isn't with how they recreated the aesthetic feel, the issue people were having was with the actual quality of the models and textures, not to mention many of the poor animations at launch. One of the first patches upgraded hundreds of textures, that wasn't a problem with 'motif'.

Don't really care if you think it's total bunk. I'm sure you are speaking for everyone that ever commented on the graphics of the game right? People complained about all of the above, including the aesthetic feel of the game. Textures in the game are fine and on par with other Unreal engine games. Animations are fine, a little stiff at times, but again not a problem unique to ACM.

Bioshock Infinite is very highly rated. I could show you lots of bad textures, missing textures, lack of graphical features, bad and boring gameplay. In fact there isn't a single game that I couldn't go through and pick out plenty of bad artwork and gameplay.

Not sure why people still want to argue the quality of the game. I've already said before that I agree it's not that great of a game. It is however still a fun game to play.

Back on topic...the argument of whether they succeeded or not with the graphics, models, animations or aesthetic feel of the game has nothing to do with whether this class action lawsuit has any legs. The lawsuit is based on false advertising, whether there was a bait & switch or not and if pre-orders are due compensation. They aren't.
 
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64. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 3, 2013, 23:03 nin
 
Linksil wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:19:
I think this is the best comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2qVebxlUo

If you're going to quote that, use the fixed version: http://youtu.be/6lGXDM3LGnk

 
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63. Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines Lawsuit Responses May 3, 2013, 20:38 Redmask
 
Krovven wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:19:
Shataan wrote on May 3, 2013, 19:00:
MANY of the enviros textures etc, looked dated and washed out.

And to that I will quote what I said in the ACM topic a couple days ago.

"The level design, is consistent with the Aliens film. After having played the game a fair amount, and then going back and watching the movie again, they recreated the aesthetic look and floormap exactly like the movie. I can see why some people will take issue with them using a 1986 design and not upgrading it, but I like that they recreated it exactly how it was in the movie."


I watched Aliens an hour ago and find this to be total bunk. The issue isn't with how they recreated the aesthetic feel, the issue people were having was with the actual quality of the models and textures, not to mention many of the poor animations at launch. One of the first patches upgraded hundreds of textures, that wasn't a problem with 'motif'.
 
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