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XCOM Shooter "Fresh Look" Reveal in "Days"

2K Games blogs about plans to unveil "a fresh look at the long-awaited squad-based tactical shooter in development at 2K Marin" in the coming days. This is to clear up the status of their XCOM shooter, a game they refer to in the headline as [redacted], which plays into recent implications the game was being rebranded and the recent disappearance of its website. The XCOM shooter has been a lightning rod for criticism due to its departure from the roots of the series, and though it says "the game has undergone an evolution since we last showed it to you at E3 2011," the post also indicates that whatever changes are afoot, this will still be an XCOM game on some level, as they refer to it as "a new experience within the world of XCOM" and a game which has "evolved into a high-stakes narrative experience imbued with core XCOM concepts."

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44. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 22:43 Redmask
 
I didn't really notice any randomness and didn't find the game very challenging either, maybe on the lower difficulties. In fact one of my biggest complaints was the difficulty was so arbitrary and the game lacked a lot of the tension of the previous ones.

I do still agree with Prez that it was about as close to the original as we'll get to see these days and pretty fun despite its problems.
 
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43. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 21:46 Krovven
 
Tanto Edge wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 17:59:
Are you on glue?

No, but apparently you are. Throwing silly insults for stating my experience and not being happy with it? Don't be an ass.

 
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42. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 20:03 Beelzebud
 
I still find it lame that they're basically ripping off the 'black oil' from X-Files. Whatever though. They made Enemy Unknown, and as long as they keep making real strategy games I will just ignore the shooter.  
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41. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 17:59 Tanto Edge
 
Krovven wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 09:51:
My biggest problem with XCOM EU was the lack of consistency in combat.

The problems to me are most notable when you reload a mission, make the exact same moves, yet the outcome was different regardless of the execution of movement, tactics and abilities. There is also the problems with line of sight, and cover meaning very little, which they have even mentioned publicly they are/were looking at, but never actually fixed.

Some people may love this randomness, but to me, it just throws player skill out the window when it comes to a turn-based game.

Are you on glue?
Articles were published the day after it was released, denoting how people were confused and upset that reloading DID NOT garner differing results no matter what people tried.
It was later revealed that this was an intentional design move where each missions 'random seed' was pregenerated on mission start and saved to the game file, hence deterring reloaders from approaching the game in such a fashion.


Edit: Nm, I read your later response to Creston. Yeah, that randomness was kinda annoying; but at least SOMETHING was fucking random.
Not even when the aliens show up in the geo is random.
 
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39. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 17:41 LgFriess
 
Prez wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 16:33:
To be clear, LgFriess' qoute incorrectly attributes m00t's point to me. While agree that a few things were lost in the translation by Firaxis, I am nowhere near as nitpicky about the minor ways the remake strayed from the original as he is. In truth the remake did the most important aspects of the gameplay right, and did the XCOM name justice.

Sorry about that Prez, got messed up in my line deletion.
 
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38. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 16:57 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 16:52:
Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 15:09:
Creston wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 15:01:
Yifes wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:14:
Also, alien packs DO roam around the map, just not all of them.

All of them CAN roam, but there is a limit of 5 monsters being 'active' at any one time on Impossible. (4 on classic, 3 on normal.)

If you use a mod to turn that limit off, things can get pretty hairy, as every monster in audio range will come see what's shooting the shit out of their ship. It's probably the most fun option to turn off in the game

Creston

This isn't quite true. I'm pretty certain that the limit is 5 on normal, and it's definitely above 5 on classic. I think I had 12 active at one point. It may have been 15. It was 4 or 5 groups that just kind of converged on me. Thank god for highest-level snipers.

I mean active as in "roaming." I should have explained that better.

Creston

So you mean undiscovered ones, then, right?
Because, from what I'm seeing, it's an infinite amount of enemies you can be engaging at once above Normal, and up to 5 in Normal and Easy (so a 6 man team can never be overwhelmed, or even 1:1)
 
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37. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 16:52 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 15:09:
Creston wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 15:01:
Yifes wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:14:
Also, alien packs DO roam around the map, just not all of them.

All of them CAN roam, but there is a limit of 5 monsters being 'active' at any one time on Impossible. (4 on classic, 3 on normal.)

If you use a mod to turn that limit off, things can get pretty hairy, as every monster in audio range will come see what's shooting the shit out of their ship. It's probably the most fun option to turn off in the game

Creston

This isn't quite true. I'm pretty certain that the limit is 5 on normal, and it's definitely above 5 on classic. I think I had 12 active at one point. It may have been 15. It was 4 or 5 groups that just kind of converged on me. Thank god for highest-level snipers.

I mean active as in "roaming." I should have explained that better.

Creston
 
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36. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 16:33 Prez
 
To be clear, LgFriess' qoute incorrectly attributes m00t's point to me. While agree that a few things were lost in the translation by Firaxis, I am nowhere near as nitpicky about the minor ways the remake strayed from the original as he is. In truth the remake did the most important aspects of the gameplay right, and did the XCOM name justice.  
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35. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 15:52 LgFriess
 
m00t wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 14:18:
Prez wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:52:
Additionally, in the original game, the Alien team had an actual agenda and missions it had to accomplish. It wasn't some silly linear script with a handful of pre-set landscapes. If you intercepted the alien craft attempting a mission or part of a mission, they could fail their mission and their score would go down. It was like playing against a real opponent. The new "X-Com" has none of this.

This is a great point. What's the new indie x-com remake coming out? Xenonauts? Hopefully they do it correctly. I don't need it to be pretty. Just a more modern interface and some cleaned up game play (looking for that last hiding sectoid for an hour can go).
 
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34. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 15:09 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 15:01:
Yifes wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:14:
Also, alien packs DO roam around the map, just not all of them.

All of them CAN roam, but there is a limit of 5 monsters being 'active' at any one time on Impossible. (4 on classic, 3 on normal.)

If you use a mod to turn that limit off, things can get pretty hairy, as every monster in audio range will come see what's shooting the shit out of their ship. It's probably the most fun option to turn off in the game

Creston

This isn't quite true. I'm pretty certain that the limit is 5 on normal, and it's definitely above 5 on classic. I think I had 12 active at one point. It may have been 15. It was 4 or 5 groups that just kind of converged on me. Thank god for highest-level snipers.
 
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33. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 15:09 theyarecomingforyou
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 14:20:
Sometimes it won't figure out which level I want my guy on and, if I'm going quickly, he'll run up stairs or down a wall and end up in the worst place.
Yeah. One of the spaceship levels was particularly bad for that, as it was really difficult to select the right tile (it kept getting confused by the different levels).

Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 14:20:
Towards the end I just get bored. I know there's 1 more cluster of enemies around. Keeping your guys in formation on the off chance they're right ahead gets dull. Sometimes you just want to dash to them. It, no lie, can save 10+ minutes
Yeah, I can understand that. Most of the time moving large distances is fine, yet it's obviously annoying if the one time it's not is right at the end of the level.

Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 14:23:
I'm surprised people like the new base mode, honestly.

Building is more annoyance than fun
Menu systems are long and annoying
For some reason you have all the rooms linked up top, except the one you use most
Your stupid scientist and engineer talk to you nonstop. Shut up! Jesus, it's worst in the field when they keep taking control of your camera and telling you crap you learned the first time through
It had its annoyances but overall I thought the system was great, as it gave meaning to the individual missions. For me it was one of the main selling points.
 
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32. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 15:02 m00t
 
Agreed, Beamer. It felt like they didn't know what they actually wanted to do with it and rushed to get something that looks "okay" but plays badly because they didn't have time to do a real base system. That's my impression, anyway.
 
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31. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 15:01 Creston
 
Yifes wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:14:
Also, alien packs DO roam around the map, just not all of them.

All of them CAN roam, but there is a limit of 5 monsters being 'active' at any one time on Impossible. (4 on classic, 3 on normal.)

If you use a mod to turn that limit off, things can get pretty hairy, as every monster in audio range will come see what's shooting the shit out of their ship. It's probably the most fun option to turn off in the game

Creston
 
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30. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 14:23 Beamer
 
I'm surprised people like the new base mode, honestly.

Building is more annoyance than fun
Menu systems are long and annoying
For some reason you have all the rooms linked up top, except the one you use most
Your stupid scientist and engineer talk to you nonstop. Shut up! Jesus, it's worst in the field when they keep taking control of your camera and telling you crap you learned the first time through
 
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29. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 14:20 Beamer
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 14:13:
XCOM:EU was great. The enemy spawning was certainly an annoyance but not a major issue in the grand scheme of things. Personally I think the decision to allow saving in-mission was a mistake, as it makes it too easy to save-scum - it devalued the strategy map and the consequences for failure.

As for this game, at least they seem to have recognised the game was on the wrong track and hopefully the new direction will be an improvement. We'll see.

Just go Ironman mode to not save-scum.

I save-scum a ton, and it's detrimental, which is why my next game will be Ironman. But I have to save-scum, for two reasons:
1) Sometimes the game just sucks at being smart. Sometimes it won't figure out which level I want my guy on and, if I'm going quickly, he'll run up stairs or down a wall and end up in the worst place. Sometimes it's impossible to tell this will happen. Other times I won't look at how he'll get somewhere and, though I'm trying to get him to go to a second entrance to flank, he'll decide to run through the first entrance, despite a closed door, to get there
2) Towards the end I just get bored. I know there's 1 more cluster of enemies around. Keeping your guys in formation on the off chance they're right ahead gets dull. Sometimes you just want to dash to them. It, no lie, can save 10+ minutes
 
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28. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 14:18 m00t
 
Prez wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 13:52:
... stuff ...
EDIT: Oh, to address the complaint about the aliens repositioning once found - they did something similar in the first game if they avoided moving and stored all their action points in reserve. There was admittedly an initiative check that allowed high level soldiers to be able to keep going without an alien interrupt that has been done away with but since the new game is all based around cover that was taken out to avoid it being too easy.

No, in the original (and best) game, they could not. The aliens could only do reaction fire on your turn. They could not actually move.
Also they did not "spawn" at random around your troops as happened on almost every mission in the re-make. All aliens that survived the crash / landing were present from the beginning of the mission. The only way you could get new ones was for a human to be taken over by a Chryssalid.

Additionally, in the original game, the Alien team had an actual agenda and missions it had to accomplish. It wasn't some silly linear script with a handful of pre-set landscapes. If you intercepted the alien craft attempting a mission or part of a mission, they could fail their mission and their score would go down. It was like playing against a real opponent. The new "X-Com" has none of this.

The new "X-Com" was a decent game, but it was not proper X-Com. It was simply missing too much of the deep gameplay and interesting choices.

One of the reasons the original X-Com was so good is that you frequently lost team-members which was painful (and taught you to be more careful), but it didn't cost you the game each time it happened (unless you lose your commander amongst a bunch of rookies, but I digress). The new game, the squad sizes are so small and you invest so much into each squadmember, losing one guy puts you on a downward spiral that is much more difficult to recover from. This teaches you that you have to play *perfect* and never make a mistake and hope that the random rolls don't fuck you over and that it doesn't spawn enemies on your units. It's too binary and frankly much less interesting or fun. Even 2 or 3 more guys in a squad would have made a much better game. More of a gradient of success/failure instead of a binary Perfect Success or Eventual/Immediate game ending failure.

And wtf was with the ant farm shit? Building bases and organizing them into defensible configurations was a big and fun part of the original. Totally lost on the silly side-view presentation.

 
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27. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 14:13 theyarecomingforyou
 
XCOM:EU was great. The enemy spawning was certainly an annoyance but not a major issue in the grand scheme of things. Personally I think the decision to allow saving in-mission was a mistake, as it makes it too easy to save-scum - it devalued the strategy map and the consequences for failure.

As for this game, at least they seem to have recognised the game was on the wrong track and hopefully the new direction will be an improvement. We'll see.
 
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26. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 13:52 Prez
 
Obviously we are not indicative of gamedom as a whole, but I still find it telling that in a thread about the upcoming XCOM shooter all the talk is about XCOM the strategy game. Still, given how great I found the Firaxis remake to be, my XCOM strategy itch has been scratched, and I am more willing to give a squad based tactical shooter in the XCOM universe a chance.

On the subject of of the strategy remake I wil chime in that I too thought the lack of randomized maps really hurt the game. I also sorely missed the home base alien invasions. Those were extremely tense in the original.

EDIT: Oh, to address the complaint about the aliens repositioning once found - they did something similar in the first game if they avoided moving and stored all their action points in reserve. There was admittedly an initiative check that allowed high level soldiers to be able to keep going without an alien interrupt that has been done away with but since the new game is all based around cover that was taken out to avoid it being too easy.
 
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25. Re: XCOM Shooter Apr 24, 2013, 13:31 jdreyer
 
Julio wrote on Apr 24, 2013, 11:49:
I wonder if the fresh look will be calling it XCOM2

XCOM: Enemies Unknown?

I loved this game. But I do agree with Beamer that the lack of randomization in both maps and enemy placement hurts it. Still it took me 37 hrs to play through, so I definitely got my money's worth. And this will be a once-a-year play through, so I'll forget some of the layouts, although many are kind of unforgettable like ship layouts and the train station.

Also wished the research tree was deeper. But the combat was so much fun, and the base management was really well thought out. Just a fantastic job all around.

This comment was edited on Apr 24, 2013, 13:40.
 
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